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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426205
04/28/13 03:42 PM
04/28/13 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
jim, can you explain how the 4.25 crank fit better than the 4.15? oil pickup boss and cylinder notching?
so, what kind of power do's your 440-1 13:1 motor make? whats the car weight and whats it run?
As John pointed out, the BB Chevy rod is smaller on the big end which clears the cylinders and oil pickup better, even with the slightly long stroke of the 4.250" vs 4.150".
My engine has not been on the dyno, but at 3250 pounds in a 1969 Dart it runs 9.15-9.30 depending on weather. And that is with a flat tappet, solid lifter cam (Comp MM305S-10, 279/287 at .050", .650"/.630" lift). And my heads are nothing special, just decent hand porting (355cfm).
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426207
04/28/13 05:22 PM
04/28/13 05:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
Swedcharger67
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
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Quote:
ok,i understand. would 440source be a good place to by good quality crank and rods from?
My 512 440Source kit for the 400-block is very good. 
Bearing clearances are spot on, weights of rods, pistons, pins very close to each other, ARP bolts, Clevite bearings, Icon pistons, all balanced. Technical support is quick and excellent.
I have checked everything and not found any problems.
That somebody is breaking a crank doesn't mean anything IMHO...I guess any crank can be broken with a improper build and/or engine setup.
Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426208
04/28/13 05:43 PM
04/28/13 05:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
torque is what i'm lookin for.
looks like k1 makes a 4.150 crank with 2.20 journals for lo deck.
Can I ask why you are so fixated with a 4.15 stroke crank ? Unless you are building a custom piston that crank will require a rod that is 6.575 , I don't think that is an available rod size ?
The new K1 isn't the same as the old K1 , so I am told by one of their EX biggest cheerleaders .
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426211
04/28/13 06:59 PM
04/28/13 06:59 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Jim's car is testimony to how well this particular combination can work. That and his very dilligent way of doing things.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426213
04/28/13 08:02 PM
04/28/13 08:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
how much can a 400 block beck decked? whats the max. positive deck height on a 400 stroker?
I could use a 6.760 rod with a 1.120 mahle piston if I can deck block .025. that would give 0 deck.
I do see what you meen. its easier matching parts for the 4.25 crank.
You can take .025 off the deck , but you need to cut an intake or your heads to make up for it.
You said you want to turn it into something for the street after you get your goal that's an awful short piston for something that will see a lot of street duty and it puts the pin up into the rings .
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1426216
04/28/13 11:12 PM
04/28/13 11:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
yer absolutely right,i thought about that after I posted.
heres another mahle piston with a 1.350 ch that can be used for my application with a 6.535 rod and the 4.150 crank. would need the cut .020 from the deck for 0 deck. piston weights about 500g.
The 4.15 stroke with BB chevy rods is shorter, less stroke= less torque  The 4.25 or 4.300 stroke is way better than the 4.15 stroke   Especially if your going to put a decent set of heads on it to start with  I've built 4.25 stroke motor with the stock Mopar rod journal sizes, lots of block grinding needed to make them fit  I've built the same combination with the 4.250 stroke with BB Chevy rod sizes and forged H beam rods and those needed a lot less grinding, the rod bearing speed is a lot less due to the smaller diameter rod journals at the same RPM, the rotating assembly is lighter, especially if you use a long rod, and a lot less grinding is needed on the blocks, as already pointed out The original 4.150 stroke was a easy way for Mopar to make a cheaply available forged steel stroker cranks for the aftermarket race car sales division of Mopar, it worked good back in the day The 4.250 stroke 2.200 rod journal size cranks are better 
Cab your talking like "we will say a 383 to a 440"
the 4.15 will rev higher and most likely will have
the torque in a higher range than a 440... so if you
want the torque at a lower rpm then yes the longer
stroke is better but if you want a rev engine then
you go with a shorter stroke.. so was the 383 a bad
engine... nope but the stock version wasnt set up
as a rev engine so it lacked in the torque... every
engine has a place and where it makes the torque...
but I think we will agree that RPM is power... if
its set up for the rpm
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1426217
04/28/13 11:14 PM
04/28/13 11:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Do you have to run external line with a 4.15 crank?
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1426220
04/29/13 12:35 AM
04/29/13 12:35 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Do you have to run external line with a 4.15 crank?
No
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1426222
04/29/13 12:41 AM
04/29/13 12:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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The reason ive been thinkin about a 400/499 is because I have a new set of 6.76/.990 Eagles sitting on the shelf already. But I might be smart to just sell them and get a 512 kit.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1426224
04/29/13 12:55 AM
04/29/13 12:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
But I might be smart to just sell them and get a 512 kit.
take it from me , I'm building a 3.9 stroke 383 only because I already had the crank , machined block and pistons , if i had to do it again I would have sold the stuff and did a 4.25 stroke in a 400 block.
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