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1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
#1378644
01/30/13 04:10 PM
01/30/13 04:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 373
sandwich IL
sublimehemi
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sandwich IL
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i have read that some of the guys here have ordered 1/2 stainless fuel line from fine lines that was pre bent...how did it fit?????
i am also considering ordering the return line in 3/8...i konw our cars came with 3/8 fuel with 1/4 return and i am wondering if 1/2 fuel and 3/8 return will fit with minor tweaking in factory location ???
i really want this set up to work for my 700hp efi project...any thoughts will help.i posted this under question and answer and got no response so any info will help...
70 charger ,all aluminum 528 hemi 727 cope rmvb,680hp 670 tq,full sequential holley hp efi,full hotchkis tvs,qa1 k and lowers,borgeson steering box cass viper 11.75 with cass s-trac dana 3.54
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: sublimehemi]
#1378645
01/30/13 04:58 PM
01/30/13 04:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
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Just my opinion but I'd try and package both supply and return lines as the same size. I was considering your route with my FAST Efi but was notified that it could potentially cause a pressure situation, especially at idle with a smaller return. I went with 3/8 supply and return and have never had an issue. Might I also suggest a rock valley tank? It has a baffle and setup for a tank mounted pump. Best move I made. 
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1378646
01/31/13 01:32 AM
01/31/13 01:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 373
sandwich IL
sublimehemi
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will 3/8 main and return line support 700hp efi??if i can get away with running 3/8..... i will....im sure 3/8 main and return lines will most likely fit in factory location...
how much horsepower will 3/8 main and return handle on a efi application???
70 charger ,all aluminum 528 hemi 727 cope rmvb,680hp 670 tq,full sequential holley hp efi,full hotchkis tvs,qa1 k and lowers,borgeson steering box cass viper 11.75 with cass s-trac dana 3.54
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: sublimehemi]
#1378647
01/31/13 01:57 AM
01/31/13 01:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
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Quote:
will 3/8 main and return line support 700hp efi??if i can get away with running 3/8..... i will....im sure 3/8 main and return lines will most likely fit in factory location...
how much horsepower will 3/8 main and return handle on a efi application???
I'd say you are good to 700+ HP with 3/8" lines on a EFI return style system.
But I'd like to hear if someone has used the 1/2" finelines steel lines too. I asked Right Stuff if they could make them and they told me they could not.... 
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1378648
01/31/13 03:07 AM
01/31/13 03:07 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 373
sandwich IL
sublimehemi
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i called fine lines yesterday and talked to rick and he said they can do stainless in 1/2 but not steel....he does not sock 1/2 steel...anyways he said he makes them exact...and sells them alot.
i too am interested in pics..
70 charger ,all aluminum 528 hemi 727 cope rmvb,680hp 670 tq,full sequential holley hp efi,full hotchkis tvs,qa1 k and lowers,borgeson steering box cass viper 11.75 with cass s-trac dana 3.54
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1378649
01/31/13 10:19 AM
01/31/13 10:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
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Quote:
Quote:
will 3/8 main and return line support 700hp efi??if i can get away with running 3/8..... i will....im sure 3/8 main and return lines will most likely fit in factory location...
how much horsepower will 3/8 main and return handle on a efi application???
I'd say you are good to 700+ HP with 3/8" lines on a EFI return style system.
But I'd like to hear if someone has used the 1/2" finelines steel lines too. I asked Right Stuff if they could make them and they told me they could not....
I used 1/2 SS from inline tube fit great however get ready for a fight to straighten it out.
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1378650
01/31/13 01:21 PM
01/31/13 01:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I'm upgrading the fuel system in my '68 Barracuda to run EFI. The stainless lines are hard to manipulate when installing them or when just straightening them out after shipment. It can be done, but it is a job especially under the car.
I'm using a surge tank system with stock fuel tank, 3/8" pick-up and return lines on the sending unit, to a 2 micron fuel water separator canister filter, to a a low pressure electric pump through 3/8" aluminum supply and return lines plumbed to a surge tank at the front of the car. The high pressure pump is mounted inside the surge tank. I'm using a smaller Duetschworks DW 200 pump that's rated to 650 horspower with this system.
There are much stronger single pumps and dual pump set-up that fit in the surge tank that will flow enough to make much more than that, even with only 3/8" low pressure lines. If you run 1/2" line you will easily be up other the 1000 hp mark.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378651
01/31/13 01:26 PM
01/31/13 01:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Here's a picture of the components. Because of the design even with a stock unbaffled tank at low fuel levels, this system is much more resistant to any air cavitation on the high pressure side than the currently available modified tanks available. It's also much easier to install and significantly less expensive.
My engine only has 300 something horspower, so I an using a smallish low presssure pump. It still flows a significant volume of fuel to the front of the car and back to the tank, but at nearly 0 psi.
There are many ways to skin a cat, but you can buy your entire surge tank fuel system for the price of just a custom tank, and it will out perform it too.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378652
01/31/13 01:32 PM
01/31/13 01:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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This is the high pressure side of my system. The EFI pump is inside the black surge tank, and the bypass regulator is on top of the tank.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1378654
01/31/13 01:51 PM
01/31/13 01:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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There's no question it's still up in the air as far as the outcome of doing an actual side-by-side comparison tests between the two styles of plumbing older cars with retrofit EFI fuel systems, at low fuel levels.
But there's little question in my mind that a surge tank system will be pumping solid fuel though the high pressure side while a minimally baffled tank mounted pump system, especially without a sump and trap doors will be sucking air.
The low pressure side of the surge tank sytem will also be sucking air, but that air is separated from the inlet of the high pressure pump in the surge tank.
If you ever do have issues at low fuel levels under high G situations, you could always and a surge tank without a pump to your current system and it would out perform almost anything available.
I agree, it is tight up under there! Aside from the front mounted surge tank, this is simply the way you would mount a traditional electric fuel pump system. That's what's nice about it from a retrofitting stand point. If your car was already plumbed for this, all you would need to do to convert to EFI would be to ad the high preesure side up front.
No matter which way anyone decides to go, It's a nice, lower cost alternative for a lot of guys looking to convert their old Mopars to a high performance EFI fuel system without having to buy custom tanks.
Pic = high flow 2 micron fuel filter/water seperator.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378655
01/31/13 01:53 PM
01/31/13 01:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Dual exhaust and swaybars don't make it any easier either.
pic = fuel pump, low pressure side, pushes fuel to surge tank at front of car and back to tank.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378656
01/31/13 01:55 PM
01/31/13 01:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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The stock tank and modified sending unit.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378657
01/31/13 02:26 PM
01/31/13 02:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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High pressure pump mounted inside surge tank at front of car. Sucks fuel from the bottom of the surge tank, away from any air bubbles/cavitation. As you can see, you can run 0,1, or 2 pumps. With no pump inside, you use a tank mounted or external EFI pump to fill the surge tank. In this case, a long tube picks up fuel from the bottom of the surge tank avoiding the introduction of any air to the injectors.
Fuel flows in from low pressure side, fills up surge tank and pushes any captured air that floats to the top of the surge tank immediately back to the main fuel tank at high volume @ near 0 psi.
Last edited by jbc426; 01/31/13 02:32 PM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378658
02/11/13 06:08 PM
02/11/13 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
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Quote:
This is the high pressure side of my system. The EFI pump is inside the black surge tank, and the bypass regulator is on top of the tank.
Does this mean the surge tank is fully presurized by the rear pump then?
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378659
02/11/13 07:05 PM
02/11/13 07:05 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
The stock tank and modified sending unit.
Is your 2 micron filter on the suction side ?
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1378660
02/11/13 07:10 PM
02/11/13 07:10 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
This is the high pressure side of my system. The EFI pump is inside the black surge tank, and the bypass regulator is on top of the tank.
Does this mean the surge tank is fully presurized by the rear pump then?
I don't know if it's actually pressurized unless there is some type of regulator in the return to the tank ? It looks like by his schematic that the tank gets filled and continually pumps fuel back to the tank.
If it were me I'd have a lot less rubber line and clamps in a system like that , one line lets go and there is going to be lots of fuel pumping where you don't want it ???
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1378661
02/11/13 07:23 PM
02/11/13 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is the high pressure side of my system. The EFI pump is inside the black surge tank, and the bypass regulator is on top of the tank.
Does this mean the surge tank is fully presurized by the rear pump then?
I don't know if it's actually pressurized unless there is some type of regulator in the return to the tank ? It looks like by his schematic that the tank gets filled and continually pumps fuel back to the tank.
If it were me I'd have a lot less rubber line and clamps in a system like that , one line lets go and there is going to be lots of fuel pumping where you don't want it ???
I agree on the rubber lines...hardline or PTFE braided would be the way to go for me....
It just seems like the return would be gravity fed back to the tank and wouldn't keep up with the return flow unless the whole surge tank was totally filled and ultimately pressurized at least to some degree..
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1378663
02/11/13 09:29 PM
02/11/13 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
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Quote:
Can't see it getting pressurized very much over whatever the pump feeding it is ?
Ahh...your right, after thinking about it...without a regulator or restriction after the pump, there would be no real pressure. 
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