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TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! #137122 10/15/08 11:38 PM 10/15/08 11:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA E ECS OP David Walden
ECS OP David Walden E Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA	It has been about eight weeks since the Nationals and the completion of the Challenger project. Things went well overall but a reoccurring question kept finding its way back to me as a nagging thought. Could we have provided a better representation of a Factory Correct Vehicle? After about four weeks of thinking it over I have to say YES, we could have. With that in mind I asked myself what would constitute a �better� restoration than the one we had just completed? The only thing I could think of was to locate an absolutely pristine Survivor that still had EVERY single original part, hose, gasket, weather strip, etc�. that it did when it left the assembly line. Not only would this car have to posses those qualities but the components had to be in a condition not far off from the way they would have appeared when the car was new. In essence the selection of the car had to fit the category which meant that the �selection� of vehicle was not really much of a choice at all. A survivor in that particular condition isn't so easily found. Needless to say a vehicle was discovered that is almost as new looking (in some aspects) as the Challenger that we had brought to the Nationals. It even has the original air in all 5 tires. No joke! In 2010 (the good Lord willing) we will be bringing a BRAND SPANKING NEW 1970 BLACK A BODY PLYMOUTH to be entered in the OE competition. Not a single reproduction part, not even (hopefully) an NOS part. A car that is new with ALL the original components that it was born and manufactured with. It will be completely disassembled and touched up (where needed) in order to look like new. The party is about to start all over again. This one will definitely be fun!

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: ECS] #137123 10/16/08 12:25 AM 10/16/08 12:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,044 At a gas station near you B badblack68 master
badblack68 master B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,044 At a gas station near you	I have to ask, why ruin a rare survivor? They are only as assembled by the factory once.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: ECS] #137124 10/16/08 12:35 AM 10/16/08 12:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,650 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,650 Hamtramck, PA	Quote: It will be completely disassembled and touched up (where needed) in order to look like new. So, no longer a survivor, and not restored either? It sounds like a total waste of an original reference car to me. You do great work, I know that. But it may be time to consult a therapist........ Best of luck. Barry

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: Alaskan_TA] #137125 10/16/08 12:54 AM 10/16/08 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,499 N.E. OHIO, USA A12 Too Many Posts
A12 Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,499 N.E. OHIO, USA	That's kind of "stacking the deck" IMO. Sounds more like detailing than a restoration, no research and how could anyone challenge correctness? I agree with AK T/A. So which came first the car or the idea? I thought you were always up to the challenge, this is too easy. I have an A-body '69 M-Code 440 Dart that I'll let you "restore", enter in the judging and I'll let you keep the trophy as the trade for the work, now there's a challenge Come on Dave cleaning up a survivor is way to easy for your talents, do my M-code Dart or how about a rare color Y4 Gold 69-1/2 A12 coupe road runner, MikeR

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: A12] #137126 10/16/08 01:27 AM 10/16/08 01:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA E ECS OP David Walden
ECS OP David Walden E Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA	Quote: how could anyone challenge correctness? Awww....does this take all the fun out of nitpicking reproduction carpet and package trays for some of you guys? Is that the real problem here? A new car! Just like it was delivered when new. No challenge!? No research!? You obviously don't know me too well. When all is said in done, there will be more documentation and new A Body products available than ever before. One last note....you guys mention the cars that you own and what you are going to do or not going to do with them. Has it ever occurred to you that I have NEVER criticized the work you do or what you decide to do with what you own? I didn't realize that a situation that has no affect on some of you seems to be such a bother. Why don't some of you guys "unofficially" adopt me so when you tell me what I can or cannot do with MY vehicles it will seem a little more parental and acceptable!?! Quit being so self centered and appreciate the good things that might come from this and what could be beneficial to others. If you have a survivor and decide to leave it as is, that is your business. I certainly am not so high and mighty that I find it necessary to tell everyone what they should or should not do to what they own. The hobby benefits and it doesn't cost any of you a second of your time or a penny out of your pocket. Give it a break!

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: ECS] #137127 10/16/08 02:13 AM 10/16/08 02:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 85 alton, ill D Desoto member
Desoto member D Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 85 alton, ill	Quote: <snip> In 2010 (the good Lord willing) we will be bringing a BRAND SPANKING NEW 1970 BLACK A BODY PLYMOUTH to be entered in the OE competition. <snip> A 3-on-the-tree/318/8.75 rubber mat Valiant? Now that would be cool!

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: ECS] #137128 10/16/08 03:18 AM 10/16/08 03:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,499 N.E. OHIO, USA A12 Too Many Posts
A12 Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,499 N.E. OHIO, USA	Quote: how could anyone challenge correctness? Awww....does this take all the fun out of nitpicking reproduction carpet and package trays for some of you guys? Is that the real problem here? Naawwwww, just meant the OE judges couldn't take points from it for say; having the incorrect hood hinge color for instance. Shooting fish in a barrel, pretty smart way of getting that 100 point car if it's all original eh? When this project gets started let me be the first one to call you out on proving ALL FIVE of those tires have 100% carbon dated 1970 air in them and were never adjusted up to the pressure they rolled off the assembly line with, shoot my wife�s new tires on her Town and Country have to be checked and aired up every year. Try to lighten up a little, it�s better for your health. MikeR

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: A12] #137129 10/16/08 05:06 AM 10/16/08 05:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,465 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,465 So Cal	Quote: Naawwwww, just meant the OE judges couldn't take points from it for say; having the incorrect hood hinge color for instance. Shooting fish in a barrel, pretty smart way of getting that 100 point car if it's all original eh? Makes sense to me. You put back paint marks that you have picture proof were there orginally. A basket case isn't a great car to make OE. Forget the challenge part of it, the worse shape the car is the more stuff you have to interpolate. Interpolate and exact are not the same thing. Problem is finding a boarderline survivor/non-survivor car to do it too. A good example of a car to do it to was a car like Troy's T/A. 40K mile car, orginal paint, original suspension, original interior, California car, no rust, one owner, tons of paperwork. But had the motor rebuilt and engine compartment spray canned black. There aren't that many paint daubs/markings and such on a motor, so that's not a super big OE deal. But once a motor has been rebuilt and repainted, it's killed as a survivor. If that T/A just had black interior I bet most of it would have been perfect to just re-use. Or find a survivor type car with just one repaint. There was a burnt orange 70 Hemi Cuda column shift car that sold last year out here on ebay. Like 70K to 90K miles. Original suspension. One repaint, black interior, uncracked dash?... But I think it had a non numbers motor, so that would eliminate it. The cars are out there.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: Alaskan_TA] #137130 10/16/08 07:18 AM 10/16/08 07:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,854 Georgetown Ontario Canada anlauto I Live Here
anlauto I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,854 Georgetown Ontario Canada	"You do great work, I know that. But it may be time to consult a therapist........ " WoW....Glad I didn't say that I think it's an interesting idea.... I think the only challenge would be removing the rust from suspension componets and area of the painted surface (ie: trunk area) that didn't get enough paint from the factory and now has rust. Will the car require any painting? How will you address factory sloppiness, or errors? Will they be corrected? Will you clean and reuse the original spark plugs, points, plug wires etc.... How well will it run? By saying 70 Plymouth A Body and NOT saying Duster, are you saying it's a Scamp or Valiant? How may doors does it have? Wasn't this done before to an orange 70 Charger R/T? I remember reading something in a magazine awhile back. MY OPINION: It's unfortunate that after two years of reseach and labour, from the topside, thecar will look the same as it does today. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer seeing a basket case being brought back to life.... Good luck with your new choosen endevours *CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !*

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: anlauto] #137131 10/16/08 07:35 AM 10/16/08 07:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,978 Bethel Ct A AdamR master
AdamR master A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,978 Bethel Ct	Im just glad its an A body.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: AdamR] #137132 10/16/08 08:09 AM 10/16/08 08:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,103 East Coast, NJ F fig426 top fuel
fig426 top fuel F Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,103 East Coast, NJ	I think Dave is trying to accomplish more with this one other than a perfect car. I believe that upon completion of this car, he will be able to show the minimal time, and minimal investment it is going to take to achieve a beautiful ride! With this, I would guess that it may open peoples eyes to the fact that a perfect car just doesn't have to be a hemi cuda, daytona, or droptop. How about a standard everyday grocery getter that sits in everyone's back yard that everyone of us pass by. Those cars are cheap and easy to find parts for and everyone with a little common sense and some spare change can get one going, therefore bringing that many more people into the hobby. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave. Chris from New Jersey

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: anlauto] #137133 10/16/08 08:17 AM 10/16/08 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,978 Bethel Ct A AdamR master
AdamR master A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,978 Bethel Ct	Quote: By saying 70 Plymouth A Body and NOT saying Duster, are you saying it's a Scamp or Valiant? How may doors does it have? Duster and Valiant 4dr only for 70 Plymouths. Scamps came out in 71. Last edited by AdamR; 10/16/08 08:39 AM.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: AdamR] #137134 10/16/08 08:25 AM 10/16/08 08:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,896 St. Louis, MO Blues_Cuda master
Blues_Cuda master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,896 St. Louis, MO	I'm thinking it will be a Valiant judging by the trunk picture on another posting. Dave -- Do you think this 'new' thread will draw more conversation/criticism than the original 'Taking it to the next level' thread? I bet it will.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: ECS] #137135 10/16/08 08:54 AM 10/16/08 08:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,854 Georgetown Ontario Canada anlauto I Live Here
anlauto I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,854 Georgetown Ontario Canada	Dave This is a pretty BOLD statement that may come back to haunt you... Quote: "Not a single reproduction part, not even (hopefully) an NOS part. A car that is new with ALL the original components that it was born and manufactured with. It will be completely disassembled and touched up (where needed) in order to look like new I don't want to nic-pick (too late ) but if this car is truely a reference point for new future products then how will NO REPRODUCTION parts find there way into the project....I'm confused Lets say while dismantling the car you find an odd paper tag attached somewhere practically un-seen.....you remove it and although it's 38 years old, dried up, krinkled, faded, and weathered, it's a PRIME example from which you can make a EXACT perfect copy of (it's what you do, right?)... So which one finds it's way back onto the car? The 38 year old ORIGINAL one? or Your nice NEW LOOKING perfect REPRODUCTION one? The answer is obvious to me, but it contridicts your opening statement.... Don't get me wrong...I'm behind you on this 100%, I think it will be a terrific learning experence for all of us... *CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !*

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: ECS] #137136 10/16/08 09:01 AM 10/16/08 09:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,763 Myrtle Beach, SC formerly the ... 340wedge master
340wedge master Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,763 Myrtle Beach, SC formerly the ...	I'm glad it's an A body , I'm hoping it's a Duster. We need a reference car because there are no resto books, etc. for A body cars. There are a few survivors out there, but not enough. 1971 Sassy Grass Green Duster 340 2006 Charger Daytona GoMango

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: Alaskan_TA] #137137 10/16/08 09:04 AM 10/16/08 09:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,852 Dallas, TX 70challrtse super gas
70challrtse super gas Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,852 Dallas, TX	Quote: You do great work, I know that. But it may be time to consult a therapist........ :twocents Barry, I believe you to be one of the good guys in this hobby, and that's why I must say that your comments were uncalled for and quite frankly beneath you. Please consider deleting them.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: 340wedge] #137138 10/16/08 09:05 AM 10/16/08 09:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	Yep....its time for you to lay down and rest and talk to the Dr. A $10 script might save you alot of $$$$$$$ down the road. However if this is a related post, today is a new day I think he was just being funny....relax a bit. Its his idea, his project, his $$$$,.... go for it. But now...this is a bit extreme..."It even has the original air in all 5 tires." Can we get some of that org air for testing

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: fig426] #137139 10/16/08 09:08 AM 10/16/08 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,322 S sixbbl69 top fuel
sixbbl69 top fuel S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,322	Quote: I think Dave is trying to accomplish more with this one other than a perfect car. I believe that upon completion of this car, he will be able to show the minimal time, and minimal investment it is going to take to achieve a beautiful ride! With this, I would guess that it may open peoples eyes to the fact that a perfect car just doesn't have to be a hemi cuda, daytona, or droptop. How about a standard everyday grocery getter that sits in everyone's back yard that everyone of us pass by. Those cars are cheap and easy to find parts for and everyone with a little common sense and some spare change can get one going, therefore bringing that many more people into the hobby. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave. [/quot anybody can go out and buy a car like that.you can go to any museum and see cars like that. i would say stick with selling parts and leave the cars alone.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: A12] #137140 10/16/08 09:56 AM 10/16/08 09:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA E ECS OP David Walden
ECS OP David Walden E Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA	Quote: When this project gets started let me be the first one to call you out on proving ALL FIVE of those tires have 100% carbon dated 1970 air in them ....... Try to lighten up a little, it�s better for your health. MikeR I have nothing to prove or answer to you about concerning my project. As a matter of fact why don�t you prove it is not the factory air since that statement seems to bother you so much. You might consider following your own advice. You seem to be the one who is bothered by circumstances that are none of your business.

Re: TAKING IT TO THE "NEW" NEXT LEVEL!! [Re: anlauto] #137141 10/16/08 09:59 AM 10/16/08 09:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA E ECS OP David Walden
ECS OP David Walden E Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,711 USA	Quote: Dave This is a pretty BOLD statement that may come back to haunt you... And what do you base YOUR statement on Alan? When you looked at the car, what did you see that might cause you to make that particular comment?

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