Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367986
01/14/13 08:24 PM
01/14/13 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
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Quote:
well I have decided I am going to try what I already have, with a half fill to the freeze plugs since I already have a TON of embecco 885 sitting here...I'll roll the dice, take my chances, and see what happens
My 416 was half filled. Never got a chance to put it on th street. My 230 cnc Indy heads decided they were better suited for watering the lawn. I did get 11 Dyno pulls with it.
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367988
01/14/13 10:12 PM
01/14/13 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
The only thing you can do now is torque the mains, put 1 head on and torque... the level the other side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill it to the point you want and then install the head and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1367989
01/14/13 10:38 PM
01/14/13 10:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,425 Toronto
mshred
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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
The only thing you can do now is torque the mains, put 1 head on and torque... the level the other side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill it to the point you want and then install the head and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side
Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367990
01/14/13 11:02 PM
01/14/13 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
The only thing you can do now is torque the mains, put 1 head on and torque... the level the other side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill it to the point you want and then install the head and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side
Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift
Experiment with the cement. From what I gather you have plenty of it. I could be wrong but the problem with cement shrinking is that it cures to fast. IMO the longer it takes to cure, the stronger the cement Pour some in a metal cup and see how it cures. Mix some metal shaving in it. :
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367991
01/14/13 11:07 PM
01/14/13 11:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
Don't fill it, you will be sorry Do you have access to a dial bore gauge that you can check your cylinder walls before and after from the bottom with both heads torque down before and after filling? If you do you should check it and let us know your results I'll bet that you see a .003 or more change in the straightness of the cylinder walls, espcially the center cylinders I sincerely hope you don't see that happen to your motor
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: MattW]
#1367992
01/14/13 11:12 PM
01/14/13 11:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,425 Toronto
mshred
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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
The only thing you can do now is torque the mains, put 1 head on and torque... the level the other side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill it to the point you want and then install the head and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side
Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift
Experiment with the cement. From what I gather you have plenty of it. I could be wrong but the problem with cement shrinking is that it cures to fast. IMO the longer it takes to cure, the stronger the cement Pour some in a metal cup and see how it cures. Mix some metal shaving in it. :
Thats a good idea! The stuff is apparently supposed to be non shrinking, they advertise it all over the product information sheets...its the expanding that I am worried about, because obviously if it expands then that is what will shift the block and cylinders
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1367993
01/14/13 11:13 PM
01/14/13 11:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,425 Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
Don't fill it, you will be sorry Do you have access to a dial bore gauge that you can check your cylinder walls before and after from the bottom with both heads torque down before and after filling? If you do you should check it and let us know your results I'll bet that you see a .003 or more change in the straightness of the cylinder walls, espcially the center cylinders I sincerely hope you don't see that happen to your motor
Cab, im gonna roll the dice and take my chances...I know you never had good luck with it, but for me just like I will be doing, and hopefully I will be back here with a tale of success instead of carnage lol
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367994
01/14/13 11:18 PM
01/14/13 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
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Quote:
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Quote:
My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???
The only thing you can do now is torque the mains, put 1 head on and torque... the level the other side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill it to the point you want and then install the head and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side
Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift
Experiment with the cement. From what I gather you have plenty of it. I could be wrong but the problem with cement shrinking is that it cures to fast. IMO the longer it takes to cure, the stronger the cement Pour some in a metal cup and see how it cures. Mix some metal shaving in it. :
Thats a good idea! The stuff is apparently supposed to be non shrinking, they advertise it all over the product information sheets...its the expanding that I am worried about, because obviously if it expands then that is what will shift the block and cylinders
Pour it in a cup. Let it cure. Place in oven heat it and let it cool.
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1367996
01/15/13 12:09 AM
01/15/13 12:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,425 Toronto
mshred
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Pour it in a cup. Let it cure. Place in oven heat it and let it cool.
You are correct when saying the slower it cures the stronger it is... the thing with concrete is the moisture in it... the longer it can hold moisture the more strength it will have... I went to concrete school in the military and if this product he is using is like cement(as in Portland Cement)then you want to hold the moisture in it as long as possible.. the way to do that is eliminate the air to it... air draws off moisture... adding a metal product is a gamble due to a unknown factor as what percentage to add ... you can try it.... IF he can REALLY control the moisture evaporation it will have far less shrinkage
http://www.buildingsystems.basf.com/p02/...ms/Embeco%20885
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367998
01/15/13 12:52 AM
01/15/13 12:52 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Looking at the data it looks like a product I have used before... its got good non shrinkage and good pressure strength(11,500 psi) it also has some epoxy characteristics to it based on its dry time and yield.. looks like a good product... I didnt see any growth factor so hopefully you wont see any EDIT it has metal in it already... dont mess with that
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/15/13 01:01 AM.
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1367999
01/15/13 12:58 AM
01/15/13 12:58 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,425 Toronto
mshred
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Looking at the data it looks like a product I have used before... its got good non shrinkage and good pressure strength(11,500 psi) it also has some epoxy characteristics to it based on its dry time and yield.. looks like a good product... I didnt see any growth factor so hopefully you wont see any
Thanks for lookin er over Mike! Apparently these use this stuff at the base of space shuttle launch pads because it don't move...I hope for my sake that it doesn't move or expand in my block, but I am going to do a test run with it like Matt suggested and see what ends up happening
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: Crizila]
#1368001
01/15/13 01:25 AM
01/15/13 01:25 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Also found this video interesting...I know he is using the Moroso stuff, which supposedly DOES shrink, but he does it with the entire engine together....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvmupoDIsZ0
Moroso block filler is what my block was filled with. Of course it was done before any machine work ( line boring, Cyl. boring and decking/squaring).
On one of the blocks I filled I used the Moroso filler... it was much creamier and flowed in better... I filled another with Hard Block.. I didnt care for it... both were filled prior to machine work.... plus I used a honing plate torqued down
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1368003
01/15/13 01:46 AM
01/15/13 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Im going to pour it either way...I know the best option is to pour BEFORE, but I have talked to some people in the know and I should be ok.
I am more worried about the fill I plan on using...but if it seems like a low expansion type of fill, I think I should be ok
Just trying to find out now more about those who have used the same stuff as me, and whether they used it after machining and noted differences
Myself... being where your at right now I would fill to what you want then have the bores honed again... it isnt much cost then you wouldnt have to worry... if it measures out before honing then fine but let your machinist check it(all he has to do is check it with his bore gauge in multiple spots)... JMO
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