Half Fill for street stroker SB???

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Duner, I know you have a turbo on that dakota...What kinda power at the crank do you estimate you are pushing? Or have you dynoed it? And how long have you had the combo together for?

Did you do anything other special prep to the bottom end? i.e. studded mains, girdle, etc.

I put this together in 2006. I hurt a couple of pistons in 2008 and checked everything when replacing them. Everything looked great, no signs of cap walk even - so I put it back together and it's been driving on the street and going to the track pretty much every since.

The bottom end is just a forged Scat (stock 360 stroke) crank and Eagle H-Beams rods with the upgraded ARP rod bolts. Probe pistons. All internal balanced. Block is unfilled and stock 2-bolt mains. No girdle or anything like that. I'm still running the stock bolts for the mains as well. I generally try to keep it under 7,000 rpm - but occasionally mess up and get it to 7300-7500 rpm. I've since switched to a standalone and am using the rev-limiter at 7000 to keep me in line. LOL

I'm not sure what the actual HP is at the crank. Since it's turbo'd - the HP it makes is pretty variable. I've pretty much kept it at the 750rwtq, 550-600 rwhp level most of the time (126-127 mph trap speed), which is where it lives on the street on 91 octane - with excursions into the 700+rwhp range on occasion at the track with race gas. (just turn up the boost) I'm super-conservative with the timing on it, since if I want more power - I just turn up the boost instead of risking detonation looking for every ounce of power by upping the timing. Again, I do also run race gas at the track if I'm going to turn it up.

Pushing 4200# to 133.65 mph is the best so far for documented HP output. (that's when I hurt the pistons) That's thru a 46RE trans and Precision Industries 4,000 convertor. The Wallace calculator says that's 824 hp? I don't push it that hard all the time, but it's fun to shake things up once in a while.

I really believe the turbo setup is way easier on parts than NA or on the bottle.

Someday it will break. I've accepted that fact, but I'm still amazed at how much abuse it continues to take without complaints.... other than transmissions of course LOL

Duner, that is DAMNNN IMPRESSIVE! Wow! I wasn't expecting you to say its been together that long...I know turbos are easier on parts than nitrous or N/A stuff, but on stock caps, not even studded that is just awesome!

I just feel though that knowing my luck, something would probably break lol....I already went H beam instead of the I beam rods I already had, forged pistons from BPE, Mopar 4340 crank...I don't think I have been this up in the air about something though in a long time- to fill or not to fill, that is the question LOL

Posted By: ProSport

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/13/13 08:53 PM

My 500" BB in the Dart was half filled, I wouldn't do it again without a good oil cooler. After 20 minutes of cruising the oil pressure would drop down to 20 at idle and make me nervous.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 02:22 AM

I won't use block filler again under any conditions, never again, not good

I redid and them made another complete motor for a NHRA stocker racer, the original block was filled to about 1/2 way up the cylinder walls by the formwer engine shop. We, me and the dyno operator, where dyno testing the first motor when the dyno owner came out with a infra red temp gun and read the side of the block, he ask us why we where running the motor so hot

We had set the water temps running between 110 and 120 F set off of the dyno cooling tower. He had read the side of the block and below the cement was 180 F and above the cement fill line was 110 to 120F

I didn't fill the new motor and it made the exact same HP and torque with the same heads, intake, carb and camshaft, rocker arms and so on as the original short block

Lots of discussion on this topic, every builder and keyboard expert has there own idea on this, you heard mine

If the block you have needs help buy a better block

Don't patch it with fill

BTW, one of the 426 hemi blocks I did fill at the owner insistance pushed a freeze plug out part way, I ended up replacing that freeze plug it after dyno testing it, I found out that the water was seeping down between the block and the cement, same thing on the cylinder walls, the cement shrunk after curing

Why reduce the amount of coolant and contact surface by filling it with filler

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 03:29 AM

"The two outer bolts stablize the cap" was my machinists contention also. I think the torque was only 60psi on them if I remember correctly.

I have a stock 340 block that has billet steel caps
on it ... its a nice block and set up... on mine
the outer bolts are 3/8" and only need like 40# torque
if I remember right

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:13 AM

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Yes I am. The two outer bolts IMO stabilize the cap. My engine, IF WE ratify our contract, will be starting in a month or so. R3 Non saimese two bolt main.
Indy 230 cnc, 4.25 stroke, flat mechanical and 12 to 1 comp. Indy intake and 1020 race demon. Hopefully it doesn't go

I hear ya about that contract stuff, its a real B.S. time right now here

Question for ya- if that R3 is a two bolt block, was it cast with extra material in the main webbing to allow for drilling the 4 bolt mains, or is it the same material thickness there as a production LA block?

Would you add 4 bolt caps to a factory block?

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:13 AM

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My 500" BB in the Dart was half filled, I wouldn't do it again without a good oil cooler. After 20 minutes of cruising the oil pressure would drop down to 20 at idle and make me nervous.

Did you ever have a temp gauge on it? How long would you drive it for at a time?

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:18 AM

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"The two outer bolts stablize the cap" was my machinists contention also. I think the torque was only 60psi on them if I remember correctly.

I have a stock 340 block that has billet steel caps
on it ... its a nice block and set up... on mine
the outer bolts are 3/8" and only need like 40# torque
if I remember right

Mike, do you know whose caps they are? I thought I remember reading on here before that you had said its not worth the gamble to install the 4 bolt caps on a factory block as there isn't enough material...is the 340 block you have a T/A block or something?

Would you install 4 bolt caps if you were building a stock block motor? or do you still feel they weaken it?

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:04 PM

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I won't use block filler again under any conditions, never again, not good I redid and them made another complete motor for a NHRA stocker racer, the original block was filled to about 1/2 way up the cylinder walls by the formwer engine shop. We, me and the dyno operator, where dyno testing the first motor when the dyno owner came out with a infra red temp gun and read the side of the block, he ask us why we where running the motor so hot We had set the water temps running between 110 and 120 F set off of the dyno cooling tower. He had read the side of the block and below the cement was 180 F and above the cement fill line was 110 to 120F I didn't fill the new motor and it made the exact same HP and torque with the same heads, intake, carb and camshaft, rocker arms and so on as the original short block Lots of discussion on this topic, every builder and keyboard expert has there own idea on this, you heard mine If the block you have needs help buy a better block Don't patch it with fill BTW, one of the 426 hemi blocks I did fill at the owner insistance pushed a freeze plug out part way, I ended up replacing that freeze plug it after dyno testing it, I found out that the water was seeping down between the block and the cement, same thing on the cylinder walls, the cement shrunk after curing Why reduce the amount of coolant and contact surface by filling it with filler

Lots of different opinions on block fill, 4 bolt mains on stock blocks, etc - and thats a good thing. The OP has to eventually make up his mind on which way to go and of course $ is always a concern - for the guy spending it. I went through all the above, before I went the way I did. I only have about 11 passes on my motor to date, so I sure don't have enough history to say I went the right way for my set up yet. Aint broke yet, but if and when it does, I aint tellin anyone! - ok, just kiddin.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:16 PM

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"The two outer bolts stablize the cap" was my machinists contention also. I think the torque was only 60psi on them if I remember correctly.

I have a stock 340 block that has billet steel caps
on it ... its a nice block and set up... on mine
the outer bolts are 3/8" and only need like 40# torque
if I remember right

I've never said I dont like 4 bolt caps... would I
recommend it on all builds ...nope... but the 3/8
outer bolts dont have a problem on the stock blocks...
I do have a T/A block but that one needs a set of
caps on it and when I decide to use it I will put
4 bolt caps back on it(I should pull that block out
of the pole barn and start prepping it for a build)...
I have a set of new in the box W-2s that need a home
but that will be a slow build up because I think I'm
finally running out of parts
EDIT
No I dont know whos caps they are... never seen these
caps before.. they are pinned also and thats nice..
there isnt any cap walk at all ... I bought this
block years ago and it had the caps on it already
(got it from a old roundy round racer

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:23 PM

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"The two outer bolts stablize the cap" was my machinists contention also. I think the torque was only 60psi on them if I remember correctly.

I have a stock 340 block that has billet steel caps
on it ... its a nice block and set up... on mine
the outer bolts are 3/8" and only need like 40# torque
if I remember right

Mike, do you know whose caps they are? I thought I remember reading on here before that you had said its not worth the gamble to install the 4 bolt caps on a factory block as there isn't enough material...is the 340 block you have a T/A block or something?

Would you install 4 bolt caps if you were building a stock block motor? or do you still feel they weaken it?

I might have a home for those W-2's if you are ever interested.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 04:42 PM

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"The two outer bolts stablize the cap" was my machinists contention also. I think the torque was only 60psi on them if I remember correctly.

I have a stock 340 block that has billet steel caps
on it ... its a nice block and set up... on mine
the outer bolts are 3/8" and only need like 40# torque
if I remember right

Mike, do you know whose caps they are? I thought I remember reading on here before that you had said its not worth the gamble to install the 4 bolt caps on a factory block as there isn't enough material...is the 340 block you have a T/A block or something?

Would you install 4 bolt caps if you were building a stock block motor? or do you still feel they weaken it?

I've never said I dont like 4 bolt caps... would I
recommend it on all builds ...nope... but the 3/8
outer bolts dont have a problem on the stock blocks...
I do have a T/A block but that one needs a set of
caps on it and when I decide to use it I will put
4 bolt caps back on it(I should pull that block out
of the pole barn and start prepping it for a build)...
I have a set of new in the box W-2s that need a home
but that will be a slow build up because I think I'm
finally running out of parts

I might have a home for those W-2's if you are ever interested.

I dont plan on dumping them but if I need more parts
than I figure I might sell them off(they are just
a set of econo heads)...when I get my Rampage done
I'll start on porting them and locating my parts to
see what I have and what I need

Posted By: MattW

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 05:56 PM

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Yes I am. The two outer bolts IMO stabilize the cap. My engine, IF WE ratify our contract, will be starting in a month or so. R3 Non saimese two bolt main.
Indy 230 cnc, 4.25 stroke, flat mechanical and 12 to 1 comp. Indy intake and 1020 race demon. Hopefully it doesn't go

I hear ya about that contract stuff, its a real B.S. time right now here

Question for ya- if that R3 is a two bolt block, was it cast with extra material in the main webbing to allow for drilling the 4 bolt mains, or is it the same material thickness there as a production LA block?

Would you add 4 bolt caps to a factory block?

All R3 block have the thick main webbing.
I would NOT use four bolt mains on a factory block. I WOULD use the Milodon or something similar Main Cap. It has four bolts but the outer ones are offset and do not break through the main webbing.
I don't really consider the Milodon caps as a four bolt cap. More between the two bolt and four bolt.
I THINK the early version of the four bolt caps for a factory block were drilled in the centre which weakened the block.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 06:00 PM

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"The two outer bolts stablize the cap" was my machinists contention also. I think the torque was only 60psi on them if I remember correctly.

I have a stock 340 block that has billet steel caps
on it ... its a nice block and set up... on mine
the outer bolts are 3/8" and only need like 40# torque
if I remember right

Mike, do you know whose caps they are? I thought I remember reading on here before that you had said its not worth the gamble to install the 4 bolt caps on a factory block as there isn't enough material...is the 340 block you have a T/A block or something?

Would you install 4 bolt caps if you were building a stock block motor? or do you still feel they weaken it?

How much could you get for that TA block?
Im thinking it maybe worth some coin to somebody who is restoring a AAR or TA.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 06:50 PM

How much could you get for that TA block?
Im thinking it maybe worth some coin to somebody who is restoring a AAR or TA.

Its got some damage on it... one of the bolt holes
on the motor mount ear is broke off. but its still
a good block... I dont feel like selling it

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/14/13 08:46 PM

well I have decided I am going to try what I already have, with a half fill to the freeze plugs since I already have a TON of embecco 885 sitting here...I'll roll the dice, take my chances, and see what happens

Posted By: MattW

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 12:24 AM

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well I have decided I am going to try what I already have, with a half fill to the freeze plugs since I already have a TON of embecco 885 sitting here...I'll roll the dice, take my chances, and see what happens

My 416 was half filled. Never got a chance to put it on th street. My 230 cnc Indy heads decided they were better suited for watering the lawn.
I did get 11 Dyno pulls with it.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 01:47 AM

My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 02:12 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

The only thing you can do now is torque the mains,
put 1 head on and torque... the level the other
side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill
it to the point you want and then install the head
and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 02:38 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

The only thing you can do now is torque the mains,
put 1 head on and torque... the level the other
side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill
it to the point you want and then install the head
and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side

Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift

Posted By: MattW

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 03:02 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

The only thing you can do now is torque the mains,
put 1 head on and torque... the level the other
side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill
it to the point you want and then install the head
and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side

Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift

Experiment with the cement. From what I gather you have plenty of it. I could be wrong but the problem with cement shrinking is that it cures to fast.
IMO the longer it takes to cure, the stronger the cement

Pour some in a metal cup and see how it cures. Mix some metal shaving in it.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 03:07 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

Don't fill it, you will be sorry

Do you have access to a dial bore gauge that you can check your cylinder walls before and after from the bottom with both heads torque down before and after filling? If you do you should check it and let us know your results

I'll bet that you see a .003 or more change in the straightness of the cylinder walls, espcially the center cylinders

I sincerely hope you don't see that happen to your motor

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 03:12 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

The only thing you can do now is torque the mains,
put 1 head on and torque... the level the other
side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill
it to the point you want and then install the head
and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side

Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift

Experiment with the cement. From what I gather you have plenty of it. I could be wrong but the problem with cement shrinking is that it cures to fast.
IMO the longer it takes to cure, the stronger the cement
Pour some in a metal cup and see how it cures. Mix some metal shaving in it. :

Thats a good idea! The stuff is apparently supposed to be non shrinking, they advertise it all over the product information sheets...its the expanding that I am worried about, because obviously if it expands then that is what will shift the block and cylinders

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 03:13 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

Don't fill it, you will be sorry Do you have access to a dial bore gauge that you can check your cylinder walls before and after from the bottom with both heads torque down before and after filling? If you do you should check it and let us know your results I'll bet that you see a .003 or more change in the straightness of the cylinder walls, espcially the center cylinders I sincerely hope you don't see that happen to your motor

Cab, im gonna roll the dice and take my chances...I know you never had good luck with it, but

for me just like I will be doing, and hopefully I will be back here with a tale of success instead of carnage lol

Posted By: MattW

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 03:18 AM

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My only concern now is that my block is already machined, and I can't get it remachined...so I want to pour the stuff, but am worried about the best way to do so without moving the block i.e. torque the mains down I know, but do I need to put a head on afterwards and torque it so the cylinder doesn't shift, or???

The only thing you can do now is torque the mains,
put 1 head on and torque... the level the other
side in both fore and aft and side to side... fill
it to the point you want and then install the head
and torque... give it 2 days min then do the other side

Thats what I was planning on doing, that stuff exactly...I hope its enough for the cylinders to not shift

Experiment with the cement. From what I gather you have plenty of it. I could be wrong but the problem with cement shrinking is that it cures to fast.
IMO the longer it takes to cure, the stronger the cement
Pour some in a metal cup and see how it cures. Mix some metal shaving in it. :

Thats a good idea! The stuff is apparently supposed to be non shrinking, they advertise it all over the product information sheets...its the expanding that I am worried about, because obviously if it expands then that is what will shift the block and cylinders

Pour it in a cup. Let it cure. Place in oven heat it and let it cool.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 03:59 AM

Pour it in a cup. Let it cure. Place in oven heat it and let it cool.

You are correct when saying the slower it cures the
stronger it is... the thing with concrete is the
moisture in it... the longer it can hold moisture the
more strength it will have... I went to concrete school
in the military and if this product he is using is like
cement(as in Portland Cement)then you want to hold
the moisture in it as long as possible.. the way to
do that is eliminate the air to it... air draws off
moisture... adding a metal product is a gamble due
to a unknown factor as what percentage to add ...
you can try it.... IF he can REALLY control the moisture
evaporation it will have far less shrinkage

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 04:09 AM

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Pour it in a cup. Let it cure. Place in oven heat it and let it cool.

http://www.buildingsystems.basf.com/p02/...ms/Embeco%20885

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 04:30 AM

Also found this video interesting...I know he is using the Moroso stuff, which supposedly DOES shrink, but he does it with the entire engine together....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvmupoDIsZ0

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 04:52 AM

Looking at the data it looks like a product I have
used before... its got good non shrinkage and good
pressure strength(11,500 psi) it also has some epoxy
characteristics to it based on its dry time and yield..
looks like a good product... I didnt see any growth
factor so hopefully you wont see any
EDIT
it has metal in it already... dont mess with that

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 04:58 AM

Quote:

Looking at the data it looks like a product I have
used before... its got good non shrinkage and good
pressure strength(11,500 psi) it also has some epoxy
characteristics to it based on its dry time and yield..
looks like a good product... I didnt see any growth
factor so hopefully you wont see any

Thanks for lookin er over Mike! Apparently these use this stuff at the base of space shuttle launch pads because it don't move...I hope for my sake that it doesn't move or expand in my block, but I am going to do a test run with it like Matt suggested and see what ends up happening

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 05:05 AM

Quote:

Also found this video interesting...I know he is using the Moroso stuff, which supposedly DOES shrink, but he does it with the entire engine together....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvmupoDIsZ0

Moroso block filler is what my block was filled with. Of course it was done before any machine work ( line boring, Cyl. boring and decking/squaring).

Attached picture 7547383-hardblock.jpg

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 05:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Also found this video interesting...I know he is using the Moroso stuff, which supposedly DOES shrink, but he does it with the entire engine together....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvmupoDIsZ0

Moroso block filler is what my block was filled with. Of course it was done before any machine work ( line boring, Cyl. boring and decking/squaring).

On one of the blocks I filled I used the Moroso filler...
it was much creamier and flowed in better... I filled
another with Hard Block.. I didnt care for it...
both were filled prior to machine work.... plus I
used a honing plate torqued down

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 05:28 AM

Im going to pour it either way...I know the best option is to pour BEFORE, but I have talked to some people in the know and I should be ok.

I am more worried about the fill I plan on using...but if it seems like a low expansion type of fill, I think I should be ok

Just trying to find out now more about those who have used the same stuff as me, and whether they used it after machining and noted differences

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 01/15/13 05:46 AM

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Im going to pour it either way...I know the best option is to pour BEFORE, but I have talked to some people in the know and I should be ok.

I am more worried about the fill I plan on using...but if it seems like a low expansion type of fill, I think I should be ok

Just trying to find out now more about those who have used the same stuff as me, and whether they used it after machining and noted differences

Myself... being where your at right now I would
fill to what you want then have the bores honed again...
it isnt much cost then you wouldnt have to worry...
if it measures out before honing then fine but let
your machinist check it(all he has to do is check
it with his bore gauge in multiple spots)... JMO

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 04:53 AM

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brad penn is good til 280*. my 360 block is short filled and I see 250* often. no oil cooler.

Not to resurrect an old thread, but Dave, what do you call a short fill on your block?

I went to go pour fill in my block today, was going to do to the bottom the freeze plugs, till I got there, popped out the freeze plugs and realized there really is no material to fill below them.

It's looking like im going to be doing to the bottom of the water pump bolt holes just below the water pump ports...probably going to end up with an oil temp gauge too now (another damn gauge to worry about).

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 10:00 AM

If you have any concrete left over after you are finished I could use some. I have a low spot in my yard that I would like to fill in.

Posted By: ccarson

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 05:55 PM

My Stock Block 70 360 Build was sonic checked,1/2 filled before machining with torque plates on and filled one side at a time allowing time to cure, turned the block to allow level filling. my builder/ machinist also installed pro-gram steel 2 bolt caps, he didn't like the lack of material in the area where the outer cap bolts would be drilled, and said girdles are a band aid.
Its a 59 deg W9 build, only bored .030" over with 4.125" stroke.

After all the work done to this block I should have bought an 48 Deg R3.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 07:07 PM

It's interesting to note that the cooling system also acts as a hydraulic pressure vessel and also acts to a large degree as a fluid dampener around the cylinder walls. A lot of people tend to overlook how effective a properly functioning cooling system is/can be. Hard block diminishes this ability to some extent but conversely reinforces the mass around the crankshaft webbing.

on the street there tends to be a lot of wasted momentum in terms of what percentage of developed power actually is applied to load and gets to the ground. the more well-scienced your car hooks the more Percentage of power (load) you subject the block to.

If you hard block it I would run an oil cooler just as added protection against getting stuck in traffic in the middle of summer which is about the most taxing heat/thermal expansion a street motor is going to see. Not so much what heat it generates drag racing at WOT (because there is a long anticipated cool down period) but more a possible inability to dissipate heat under extreme and prolonged conditions.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 07:25 PM

Quote:

If you have any concrete left over after you are finished I could use some. I have a low spot in my yard that I would like to fill in.

LOL...I have a whole bag, so I should have some I can send your way..I hear it works good to filling in break throughs in the victor manifold ports

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 07:26 PM

Quote:

My Stock Block 70 360 Build was sonic checked,1/2 filled before machining with torque plates on and filled one side at a time allowing time to cure, turned the block to allow level filling. my builder/ machinist also installed pro-gram steel 2 bolt caps, he didn't like the lack of material in the area where the outer cap bolts would be drilled, and said girdles are a band aid.
Its a 59 deg W9 build, only bored .030" over with 4.125" stroke.

After all the work done to this block I should have bought an 48 Deg R3.

What are you calling a half fill?

I always assumed a half fill was up to the bottom of the core plugs, as that is what most chevy and ford guys call it...but on the small blocks, there really is nothing to fill under the freeze plugs...Are you going halfway between the bottom and the water pump ports? or right up to the bottom of the ports?

This is really costing me nothing...my brother already has the concrete, and my block was already machined last year...just a matter of me pouring it

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 07:27 PM

Quote:

It's interesting to note that the cooling system also acts as a hydraulic pressure vessel and also acts to a large degree as a fluid dampener around the cylinder walls. A lot of people tend to overlook how effective a properly functioning cooling system is/can be. Hard block diminishes this ability to some extent but conversely reinforces the mass around the crankshaft webbing.

on the street there tends to be a lot of wasted momentum in terms of what percentage of developed power actually is applied to load and gets to the ground. the more well-scienced your car hooks the more Percentage of power (load) you subject the block to.

If you hard block it I would run an oil cooler just as added protection against getting stuck in traffic in the middle of summer which is about the most taxing heat/thermal expansion a street motor is going to see. Not so much what heat it generates drag racing at WOT (because there is a long anticipated cool down period) but more a possible inability to dissipate heat under extreme and prolonged conditions.

Hey Wize, thanks for the info! I am seriously considering adding a cooler and remote filter as well....oh and an oil temp gauge....they aren't kidding when they say speed costs money...I liked the 12 second 87 octane days my car saw LOL

Posted By: ccarson

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 08:03 PM

The half fill on my block was up to the top of the core plugs.
but it is not a street motor, so no cooling issues. unless you count backing it out of the trailer for a local cruse night.
honestly if its already machined and a street engine I wouldn't bother.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 08:08 PM

Quote:

The half fill on my block was up to the top of the core plugs.
but it is not a street motor, so no cooling issues. unless you count backing it out of the trailer for a local cruse night.
honestly if its already machined and a street engine I wouldn't bother.

Its street strip, should be making a little over 500 on the motor, and close 700 on spray...if im going to run on borrowed time, I want to maximize that time lol

Posted By: ccarson

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 08:21 PM

friend of mine has a similar engine to mine same engine builder but in a 3200 pound Cuda, Indy Heads with an early factory 360 block, no fill, but good caps and ARP studs he has run hundreds of passes in the 9.50s and sprayed it to run low 9s if he took some weight out of it and or sprayed another 100 HP it would go 8.90s

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 08:32 PM

My 408 is studded, and has a Hughes girdle, I liked the fact that the girdle ties everything as 1 piece, I dont like the fact that the splade 4 bolt caps cut into a already thin webbing unless your running an R block.

Matt I personally think that the hard block isnt worth the time for you at this level. Your gonna be time/money ahead if you just spend the time to studd and gordle/4 bolt the bottom end, and the bores on that block should be plenty stout for that power level.

Mine is a 77 360 thats .030 over, forged guts, and studs where needed.

I know a few guys like hard block, I personally dont care for it from the standpoint of heat transfer into the cylinders, and what the water is accually there for.

Who knows though, Im by no means anything close to what Mr P, Brian, or other builders on here know so I may have just waisted a page here.....

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 08:34 PM

Quote:

friend of mine has a similar engine to mine same engine builder but in a 3200 pound Cuda, Indy Heads with an early factory 360 block, no fill, but good caps and ARP studs he has run hundreds of passes in the 9.50s and sprayed it to run low 9s if he took some weight out of it and or sprayed another 100 HP it would go 8.90s

Damn that is getting it done! Especially for a stock block setup...what made him not fill it, yet you did yours, and from the same builder

Posted By: mshred

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 08:37 PM

Quote:

My 408 is studded, and has a Hughes girdle, I liked the fact that the girdle ties everything as 1 piece, I dont like the fact that the splade 4 bolt caps cut into a already thin webbing unless your running an R block.

Matt I personally think that the hard block isnt worth the time for you at this level. Your gonna be time/money ahead if you just spend the time to studd and gordle/4 bolt the bottom end, and the bores on that block should be plenty stout for that power level.

Mine is a 77 360 thats .030 over, forged guts, and studs where needed.

I know a few guys like hard block, I personally dont care for it from the standpoint of heat transfer into the cylinders, and what the water is accually there for.

Who knows though, Im by no means anything close to what Mr P, Brian, or other builders on here know so I may have just waisted a page here.....

Hey man, opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, including on this topic... I always appreciate insight and experience from others when trying to make a decision

It seems everyone I talk to has a different opinion on this (what a surprise LOL), so im going to have decide what I feel most comfortable with and go from there.

I just don't want to have this motor apart again because I break something when spraying it...I need something to stay together for atleast a couple of seasons instead of this every year something new crap lol

Posted By: ccarson

Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB??? - 03/04/13 09:38 PM

his started as a street car, and then got out of control.
If I had to do it again it would be an R3

Half Fill for street stroker SB???