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Re: What caused this damage [Re: Cab_Burge] #1336149
11/18/12 10:51 PM
11/18/12 10:51 PM
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Northeast
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VincentVega Offline
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Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but how often has anyone seen a 440 with a turbo? Blowers are nice, but a mild big block with a mild turbo would be a sleeper unlike anything. I've never even seen one on youtube, seems like no one even considers it.


Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
Re: What caused this damage [Re: VincentVega] #1336150
11/19/12 03:16 AM
11/19/12 03:16 AM
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Finalnd, Perkele
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jyrki Offline
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We have two of them in our garage. This is the engine bay of a 1970 Chrysler New Yorker 4 D sedan


Iseriously doubpt that the reason for the breakage is the pistons or rods themselves. Shouldn't be at that power level. We have a 440 with a 6-71 that makes about the same power and it has been together for almost 30 years, but will be gone through this winter. We also broke a 400 with H-profile rods and a supercharger last summer, a rod broke. But that was because a cylinder wall cracked, water got on the piston and since it doesn't compress too well something has to give up... Although propably not the reason in this case, I would check the cylinder walls of that cylinder carefully just to be sure. Detonation might be one reason, but I would assume you should rather see it as gap walk first. And of course the pistons you have are tanks, but unless you wind it very high, I think it shouldn't be a major problem.


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Re: What caused this damage [Re: jyrki] #1336151
11/19/12 10:20 AM
11/19/12 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline
pro stock
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Las Vegas NV
Quote:

We have two of them in our garage. This is the engine bay of a 1970 Chrysler New Yorker 4 D sedan


Iseriously doubpt that the reason for the breakage is the pistons or rods themselves. Shouldn't be at that power level. We have a 440 with a 6-71 that makes about the same power and it has been together for almost 30 years, but will be gone through this winter. We also broke a 400 with H-profile rods and a supercharger last summer, a rod broke. But that was because a cylinder wall cracked, water got on the piston and since it doesn't compress too well something has to give up... Although propably not the reason in this case, I would check the cylinder walls of that cylinder carefully just to be sure. Detonation might be one reason, but I would assume you should rather see it as gap walk first. And of course the pistons you have are tanks, but unless you wind it very high, I think it shouldn't be a major problem.




Yeah I'm thinking he may have spun the engine too high coupled with too much timing.
I see folks with prochargers that have basically stock bottom ends pushing more boost than that and living.

Re: What caused this damage [Re: Petri.] #1336152
11/19/12 10:27 AM
11/19/12 10:27 AM
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Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline
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Quote:

The crank was checked and grinded 0.010 , they did not use any balancer on the crank, why i dont know but i will get one, what do you think about these parts

1. 440 -73 motorhome block that i have
2. Crank , will any of these brands do the job, eagle scat or k1
3. Rods same brand with 0.99 pins
4. Pistons 8.5:1 ross je venolia or wiseco
5. Aluminium or steel main caps and does they need to be cross bolted, will aluminium caps make the block last longer and what is best for street driving.
6. Does it need a girdle




1. Use Hardblock halfway up the cylinder walls to strengthen it.

2. A stock forged steel crank will be fine, just check it first.

3. Good aftermarket rods

4. Yes

5. Aluminum main caps with stud girdle.

6. Yes

Re: What caused this damage [Re: Petri.] #1336153
11/19/12 11:03 AM
11/19/12 11:03 AM
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The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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Since you still have the broken piston at hand, remove the piston rings and check their gap-width by putting them in the cylinder they came out off.
Maybe the engine-builder just forgot to gap the rings on this cylinder.


But then again, an engine with dyno-time only shouldn't eat a bearing like that already.
I think there has been an oil problem or perhaps dirt in the oil system during the mishap.
How do the other bearings look like?

Can you show a good picture of the top of the piston?

Re: What caused this damage [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1336154
11/19/12 11:43 AM
11/19/12 11:43 AM
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Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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I think we need a better picture of the bearing. On my computer screen, it doesen't really look like copper showing, it looks like the brown cardboard reflecting off a shiney aluminum bearing.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
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Re: What caused this damage [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1336155
11/19/12 04:53 PM
11/19/12 04:53 PM
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Sweden
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Petri. Offline OP
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Thanks you all for helping me out.
I will check the ringgap tomorrow after work and ill take some pics for you of the pistons and bearings.
A little oftopic but here is the bmw i buildt 6 years ago.




Re: What caused this damage [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1336156
11/19/12 05:43 PM
11/19/12 05:43 PM
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dogdays Offline
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In my humble opinion, I'd start with detonation as the cause.

The blower effectively makes the engine much bigger so high rpm are not required.

Now I am on record as saying the stock 440 pistons are stones or clubs and the rods would be MUCH BETTER with 7/16" rod bolts, but this doesn't appear to me to be rpm related. So that leaves detonation which is lurking around every blower setup waiting to bite you.

ANY 440 block needs to have cylinder walls sonic checked before you invest a bunch of Euros in it.

I'd suggest using a BCR main cap/girdle setup to stiffen the bottom end. Also, a half fill of the block will stiffen the cylinder walls.

I'd email Dan at Performance Only to get his take on cranks, off the top of my head I'd use either K1 or Scat over Eagle. If you really want to build strong, Crower is the name I'd drop. But it will cost you twice as much as a K1 or Scat.

Pistons need to be strong forgings designed for blower use, get with a piston manufacturer directly after getting some input on who. Also, wristpins need to be sturdy.

I think you will be able to run 700 - 800 hp with ease using all these good parts. But, if you have already spent $5000 on moving parts, does it make sense to use a stock block? I'd seriously suggest getting an aftermarket block. Then you'll be bulletproof.

R. (really good at spending other people's money)

Re: What caused this damage [Re: dogdays] #1336157
11/19/12 06:23 PM
11/19/12 06:23 PM
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Posts: 33
Sweden
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Petri. Offline OP
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I want it to be bulletproof and i think the best for me would be a aftermarket block and i am not in a hurry to get this engine done, better to save some money for a block and have it shipped to sweden, would a kp 440 block be a good choice to use on a street car,it has to work as a cruiser, dont want any problems with too high water temperature.

Re: What caused this damage [Re: Petri.] #1336158
11/19/12 06:29 PM
11/19/12 06:29 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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446acuda Offline
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I'm not going to say that this has anything to do with what happened to your engine but those coated trw's need a bigger bore to get the specified piston to wall clearance. In otherword, if that block was bored and honed for uncoated 2266's and then coated 2266's were used instead then piston to wall clearance would be way too tight.

Re: What caused this damage [Re: jyrki] #1336159
11/19/12 06:56 PM
11/19/12 06:56 PM
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Northeast
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VincentVega Offline
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Quote:

We have two of them in our garage. This is the engine bay of a 1970 Chrysler New Yorker 4 D sedan


Iseriously doubpt that the reason for the breakage is the pistons or rods themselves. Shouldn't be at that power level. We have a 440 with a 6-71 that makes about the same power and it has been together for almost 30 years, but will be gone through this winter. We also broke a 400 with H-profile rods and a supercharger last summer, a rod broke. But that was because a cylinder wall cracked, water got on the piston and since it doesn't compress too well something has to give up... Although propably not the reason in this case, I would check the cylinder walls of that cylinder carefully just to be sure. Detonation might be one reason, but I would assume you should rather see it as gap walk first. And of course the pistons you have are tanks, but unless you wind it very high, I think it shouldn't be a major problem.




That's awesome. Please tell me there is a page on here, or a webpage somewhere about this car?


Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
Re: What caused this damage [Re: VincentVega] #1336160
11/20/12 03:28 PM
11/20/12 03:28 PM
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Posts: 33
Sweden
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Petri. Offline OP
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I checked the ring gap at the broken piston first and second ring was about 0.028
Here are some more pics












Re: What caused this damage [Re: Petri.] #1336161
11/20/12 03:41 PM
11/20/12 03:41 PM
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Posts: 1,074
Wichita Kansas
CH3NO2 Offline
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It looks like it beat itself to death. What kind of oil system did you have on this one?


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Re: What caused this damage [Re: CH3NO2] #1336162
11/20/12 03:46 PM
11/20/12 03:46 PM
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Sweden
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Petri. Offline OP
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The only thing i know they had is hv pump and some stock pan.

Re: What caused this damage [Re: Petri.] #1336163
11/21/12 04:40 AM
11/21/12 04:40 AM
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The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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My best guess is too tight clearance on the rod-bearings.

Re: What caused this damage [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1336164
11/25/12 04:52 PM
11/25/12 04:52 PM
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Posts: 33
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Petri. Offline OP
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Have some more questions

1. What bearing clearance for the rods

2. What bearing clearance for the mains

3. How big oilpan will be enough big.

4. What more mods do i need to do to the oil system beside my hv pump, does it need a cooler.

/Thanks

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