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Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? #1319717 10/13/12 02:56 PM 10/13/12 02:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 62 Detroit, MI F FC7AARcuda OP member
FC7AARcuda OP member F Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 62 Detroit, MI	I been trying for 2 days to install my rebuilt 340 in my cuda but can't get the engine and trans to mate up. Trans is currently in the car and I dropping the engine in from above. I've had this engine and trans together in the car before but pulled the engine to rebuild. I can get the bell housing 1 1/2 inches from the block but that is about it. I've tried using bolts to pull closer but it won't budge. I checked he pilot bearing and it looks OK (same bearing that was in engine prior to pulling for rebuild). I tried slipping the clutch disc by itself on the the trans shaft and it goes on OK (slightly tight). I've had the engine in and out a half dozen times checking things but no luck. Am I missing something? Any thoughts or tricks I should try?

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319718 10/13/12 03:10 PM 10/13/12 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy Rhinodart Rhinotruck
Rhinodart Rhinotruck Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy	Making normal assumptions here but I am sure you used a clutch alignment tool when you bolted the pressure plate on. Did you make sure that nothing was done to the pilot bushing? I had an issue once where there was way too much grease packed into the pilot bushing and the trans would not go all the way into the bushing. You got the trans in neutral? Is the throwout bearing moving freely on the input shaft bearing retainer? The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it. JB Rhinehart, Realist A-Body's RULE!

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319719 10/13/12 03:15 PM 10/13/12 03:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 top fuel
bobs66440 top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	If everything fits otherwise, it almost sounds like you're trying to install it crooked and it's binding. Laying under the car, it's sometimes hard to see if it's straight. Or as mentioned, did you use an alignment tool? I would pull the trans and put it together out of the car, then install the whole thing as one unit. That's what I did and it was cake. But I used a load leveler. Got it from Harbor Freight for about $30. That made all the difference. It would be almost impossible without it. But with it, it was very easy. I can't imagine trying to line it all up and bolt it in while laying under the car. Way more work that way.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: bobs66440] #1319720 10/13/12 04:15 PM 10/13/12 04:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 62 Detroit, MI F FC7AARcuda OP member
FC7AARcuda OP member F Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 62 Detroit, MI	I did use a clutch alignment tool. It slips in and out with no problem. I've tried installing the motor with the car in gear and in neutral. The through out bearing moves fine. The pressure plate is not far enough back to touch the bearing so it must be the pressure plate that is catching. I'm trying to avoid pulling the trans because I would then have to pull the exhaust, driveshaft, shifter linkage, etc. That's my last resort if I can't get the engine on with the trans in the car.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319721 10/13/12 04:23 PM 10/13/12 04:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,650 Harm City Md. Dan Halen top fuel
Dan Halen top fuel Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,650 Harm City Md.	I would NEVER try to put an engine in with a manual trans sitting in the car. Bolt them together first or install engine first! They're enough of a PIA getting them out that way.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319722 10/13/12 04:27 PM 10/13/12 04:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy Rhinodart Rhinotruck
Rhinodart Rhinotruck Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy	Quote: I did use a clutch alignment tool. It slips in and out with no problem. I've tried installing the motor with the car in gear and in neutral. The through out bearing moves fine. The pressure plate is not far enough back to touch the bearing so it must be the pressure plate that is catching. I'm trying to avoid pulling the trans because I would then have to pull the exhaust, driveshaft, shifter linkage, etc. That's my last resort if I can't get the engine on with the trans in the car. I hear ya there. I am just getting ready to install a 340 in a 73 Cuda and will be doing the same thing you are shortly, so this post kinda helps me too before I start my install. I have put dozens of engines and 4-speeds together and have run into all kinds of issues, some that I posted above. The pressure plate should have nothing to do with the two mating together, it is usually the clutch disc that does that. If you moved the disc after installing it with tool then the trans will not mate. The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it. JB Rhinehart, Realist A-Body's RULE!

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: Rhinodart] #1319723 10/13/12 04:44 PM 10/13/12 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 621 Iowa C coronetville mopar
coronetville mopar C Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 621 Iowa	Is the pressure plate in the right way? Slide the motor in as far as you can get it to the transmission, than bolt 4 extra long bolts and adjust the bolts so that all four corners are square. You should be able to giggle either the motor or the transmission and it should slide right together. If it doesn't, try turning each bolt a little at a time and see if it will slide together that way. Do NOT use excessive force. If you can't get it together that way. I suggest your pilot bushing is too tight and needs to be reamed out.[It happens all the time} or something else is wrong and it will need to come apart. Last edited by coronetville; 10/13/12 04:47 PM.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: coronetville] #1319724 10/13/12 04:56 PM 10/13/12 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy Rhinodart Rhinotruck
Rhinodart Rhinotruck Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy	I have done the 4-stud thing in the past, it rarely works. It is usually something mis-algined. The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it. JB Rhinehart, Realist A-Body's RULE!

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319725 10/13/12 05:47 PM 10/13/12 05:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,777 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,777 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: I did use a clutch alignment tool. It slips in and out with no problem. Did you use one of those plastic alignment tools that comes with a clutch kit? Every time I've used one of those I had the same problem you're having....had to pry on the release fork and unload the disc before the trans would slide in. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1319726 10/13/12 06:00 PM 10/13/12 06:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver 64Post master
64Post master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver	Kinda why like putting them in from the bottom.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319727 10/13/12 06:35 PM 10/13/12 06:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	i know you used the tool before, and it slides out "freely " however, loosen the pressure plate bolts ... insert alignment tool .. lift up " slightly " on the alignment tool while keeping the disc lifted / centered , cross tighten your pressure plate bolts. snug each one firmly in a pattern, then tq. to specs! the slightest mis-alignment feels like you hit a brick wall ! that is the issue. .. Bw. Last edited by ek3; 10/13/12 06:40 PM.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: 64Post] #1319728 10/13/12 06:42 PM 10/13/12 06:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,361 PA 7 70HemiGTX top fuel
70HemiGTX top fuel 7 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,361 PA	You'd be better off to drop the trans. out of the car. Install the engine and bellhousing in the car. Bolt the motor mounts fast, then you can angle the engine down to install the trans. When installing the trans, it is best to have someone sit in the car and push the clutch pedal in. Yes I use an alignment tool, but if someone light (like my wife) sits in and pushes the clutch in once you have the input shaft through the clutch, it slides in much easier. There is room for fudging. When everything is tight, it has to be exactly right. You can push and push and use bolts to pull it in, but if you have someone on the clutch pedal, once things are lined up exactly it will litterally fall together. Just make sure you don't have any fingers between the trans and bellhousing. There isn't any gap once they slip together.

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: 70HemiGTX] #1319729 10/13/12 06:58 PM 10/13/12 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Wait a Minute!!! Your trying to stab the engine in the car with the 4 speed mounted in?? Dude, pull the trans back, mount the engine in place with the bell and clutch installed and then install the 4 speed. You will have a heck of a time if you plan on installing it any other way. Or even easier why not pull the trans and mount it to the engine outside of the car and drop it in as one piece and save yourself hours of frustration? Listen to Bobs66440! Last edited by BB65Barracuda; 10/13/12 07:12 PM. 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1319730 10/13/12 07:45 PM 10/13/12 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy Rhinodart Rhinotruck
Rhinodart Rhinotruck Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy	Quote: Wait a Minute!!! Your trying to stab the engine in the car with the 4 speed mounted in?? Dude, pull the trans back, mount the engine in place with the bell and clutch installed and then install the 4 speed. You will have a heck of a time if you plan on installing it any other way. Or even easier why not pull the trans and mount it to the engine outside of the car and drop it in as one piece and save yourself hours of frustration? Listen to Bobs66440! I have done it with the trans in the car quite a few times, if everything is in line then there is no issue. I quit using the plastic alignment tools years ago, have a nice Snap-On steel tool that comes with several different ends that screws that goes in the pilot bushing. I do agree with loosening up the pressure plate bolts, have had to do that before. The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it. JB Rhinehart, Realist A-Body's RULE!

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319731 10/14/12 02:01 AM 10/14/12 02:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 top fuel
bobs66440 top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: I'm trying to avoid pulling the trans because I would then have to pull the exhaust, driveshaft, shifter linkage, etc. That's my last resort if I can't get the engine on with the trans in the car. With all the work and aggravation you're going through, it seems it would be much easier to do and you won't have to wrestle with it. Heck, the driveshaft takes about 15 minutes. The shifter is a pain admittedly, but I think it took me about 20-30 minutes max. I didn't have to remove my exhaust, I just dropped it down out of the way. I have an "H" pipe, but I split and sleeved it so it would be easier. I think the whole process was about 3 hours start to finish, not counting welding up new custom header pipes for the new headers, re-installing the carbs, radiator, hood, etc.. And I used the shorty headers, so I could install the engine with them BOLTED UP!

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: Rhinodart] #1319732 10/15/12 08:53 PM 10/15/12 08:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	there are plenty of ways to get this done . some are better. just to answer "your request" why it won't go together ? the clucth disc is not properly aligned . it is just that simple. i use an 0ld main input shaft to align mine. i learned the " hard way " to lift upwards slightly -before- tightening the pressure plate bolts. if it is aligned , it will fall in ... if you install it out of the car , you still will have to align it !! hope this helps .

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319733 10/16/12 12:22 AM 10/16/12 12:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,480 USA M Molloy master
Molloy master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,480 USA	I'd have the motor mounted and the trans loosely attached on the bellhousing with just a couple bolts partially threaded. Then while stabbing the shaft, my wife would cycle the clutch pedal. It was still a b!tch, but it worked. At least she's good for something...

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: Molloy] #1319734 10/16/12 12:36 AM 10/16/12 12:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy Rhinodart Rhinotruck
Rhinodart Rhinotruck Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,533 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy	I hear ya... The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it. JB Rhinehart, Realist A-Body's RULE!

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: FC7AARcuda] #1319735 10/16/12 10:55 PM 10/16/12 10:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,138 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY RoadRunner master
RoadRunner master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,138 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY	Here is a couple of things I have run against. First, the plastic alignment tool has some pretty loose tolarences. I usually just snug the pressure plate bolts enought to hold the disk, but loose enough to allow disk to slide. I'll install transmission then tighten the pressure plate bolts by rotating the engine. Second, I have run into a crank that was drilled for a 4 speed and had a bushing installed, but it wasn't deep enough. It was about a 1/4" to shallow. 68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project 69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed. 70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project 2023 Ford Mach 1

Re: Can't get Motor and 4 Speed Tranny to mate up? [Re: Rhinodart] #1319736 10/17/12 08:03 AM 10/17/12 08:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Quote: Quote: Wait a Minute!!! Your trying to stab the engine in the car with the 4 speed mounted in?? Dude, pull the trans back, mount the engine in place with the bell and clutch installed and then install the 4 speed. You will have a heck of a time if you plan on installing it any other way. Or even easier why not pull the trans and mount it to the engine outside of the car and drop it in as one piece and save yourself hours of frustration? Listen to Bobs66440! I have done it with the trans in the car quite a few times, if everything is in line then there is no issue. I quit using the plastic alignment tools years ago, have a nice Snap-On steel tool that comes with several different ends that screws that goes in the pilot bushing. I do agree with loosening up the pressure plate bolts, have had to do that before. It still seem a lot easier to just remove it and reinstall with the engine. I work alone 90% of the time so the easy way always is the best to avoid more stress induced hair loss!! 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

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