Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: 1Fryedfish]
#1278422
08/03/12 06:37 PM
08/03/12 06:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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non-EI gap is .035" stock EI is happier with .038"
Point gap is ~.018" Dwell is 30 degrees
Timing can be dead timed at spec or about 8-10 BTDC so it runs a little cooler while breaking in. you do not want retarded timing.
Ensure there are no electrical issues and no vacuum leaks. Set base idle at about 1/2 to turn in from touching for a start. A flat tappet cam requires break-in, so this is something to adjust ASAP. Have the screwdriver handy. Idle mixture will not affect break-in much, I prefer to run a bit rich rather than lean. I'd go 1.5 -2 turns out on the mixture screws.
Have a helper nearby with a hose and an extinguisher. Have you timing light connected and ready. You want 30-35 during the break in @ 2500 RPM. Also have a tach and make sure the oil pressure and coolant temp gauges work.
Once running, you want to keep an eye on the underside for leaks, the pressure and temp, the RPM, the carb, any and all smoke sources, the belts and accessories, listen for any noises, ensure the thermostat opens and the coolant level doesn't drop, and vary the RPM.
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: RodStRace]
#1278423
08/03/12 06:50 PM
08/03/12 06:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Oh, and if it catches fire, it's your fault.
If it pukes oil out and welds itself together, it's your fault.
If there is a big air bubble in the cooling system and it overheats and/or scalds you, it's your fault.
If you have the adjustments off and it's not running right it could hurt itself, it's your fault.
If you don't have all this stuff right and have to keep shutting it off and restarting, it's your fault.
If you left anything flammable where operation could ignite it, it's your fault.
If the cam goes flat during break in, it's your fault.
If you don't know how to set up firing order and dead time it, then crank it for long periods of time before it starts and runs, it's your fault.
All of these can cause expensive damage to the engine or engine and the car.
If you haven't done all this stuff on a running engine before, you will skip or miss something and not be sure how to do it all.
All of us had that first engine fire up. Most of us got through it, either due to help, smarts, blind luck or all three. Some of us didn't. That is an expensive lesson.
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: RodStRace]
#1278424
08/03/12 09:45 PM
08/03/12 09:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Oh, and if it catches fire, it's your fault.
If it pukes oil out and welds itself together, it's your fault.
If there is a big air bubble in the cooling system and it overheats and/or scalds you, it's your fault.
If you have the adjustments off and it's not running right it could hurt itself, it's your fault.
If you don't have all this stuff right and have to keep shutting it off and restarting, it's your fault.
If you left anything flammable where operation could ignite it, it's your fault.
If the cam goes flat during break in, it's your fault.
If you don't know how to set up firing order and dead time it, then crank it for long periods of time before it starts and runs, it's your fault.
All of these can cause expensive damage to the engine or engine and the car.
If you haven't done all this stuff on a running engine before, you will skip or miss something and not be sure how to do it all.
All of us had that first engine fire up. Most of us got through it, either due to help, smarts, blind luck or all three. Some of us didn't. That is an expensive lesson.
AMEN 
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1278425
08/04/12 12:18 PM
08/04/12 12:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh, and if it catches fire, it's your fault.
If it pukes oil out and welds itself together, it's your fault.
If there is a big air bubble in the cooling system and it overheats and/or scalds you, it's your fault.
If you have the adjustments off and it's not running right it could hurt itself, it's your fault.
If you don't have all this stuff right and have to keep shutting it off and restarting, it's your fault.
If you left anything flammable where operation could ignite it, it's your fault.
If the cam goes flat during break in, it's your fault.
If you don't know how to set up firing order and dead time it, then crank it for long periods of time before it starts and runs, it's your fault.
All of these can cause expensive damage to the engine or engine and the car.
If you haven't done all this stuff on a running engine before, you will skip or miss something and not be sure how to do it all.
All of us had that first engine fire up. Most of us got through it, either due to help, smarts, blind luck or all three. Some of us didn't. That is an expensive lesson.
AMEN
I agree to a point but YOU can make it happen if absolutely necessary...........who taught the first guy to do something he never tried before. This is more like a scare tactic stating there`s NO WAY you can make this happen. Have someone there if possble and follow those steps and you should be fine but at least make sure they have an understanding of how a "first fire up" works and what to look for.  
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1278429
08/04/12 02:29 PM
08/04/12 02:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
emarine01
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh, and if it catches fire, it's your fault.
If it pukes oil out and welds itself together, it's your fault.
If there is a big air bubble in the cooling system and it overheats and/or scalds you, it's your fault.
If you have the adjustments off and it's not running right it could hurt itself, it's your fault.
If you don't have all this stuff right and have to keep shutting it off and restarting, it's your fault.
If you left anything flammable where operation could ignite it, it's your fault.
If the cam goes flat during break in, it's your fault.
If you don't know how to set up firing order and dead time it, then crank it for long periods of time before it starts and runs, it's your fault.
All of these can cause expensive damage to the engine or engine and the car.
If you haven't done all this stuff on a running engine before, you will skip or miss something and not be sure how to do it all.
All of us had that first engine fire up. Most of us got through it, either due to help, smarts, blind luck or all three. Some of us didn't. That is an expensive lesson.
AMEN
Man This is some scary stuff 
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: RobX4406]
#1278432
08/04/12 05:56 PM
08/04/12 05:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Glad to hear it went well, and a said, a run in motor bolted is a whole lot different! Sorry for the  but I'd rather anyone get a bit of "what if" rather than blindly ruin an engine that probably cost every penny they had. What RPM is it idling at? When idling, look down the carb. Is there any fuel dribbling down the boosters?
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: 1Fryedfish]
#1278434
08/04/12 08:12 PM
08/04/12 08:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Next time you can blow up a mopar running 20* of initial timing, please let me know. If it starts with 20* without killing the starter... DO IT! Here's another that is STRAIGHT FROM MSD as they've finally seen the light. Put as much initial timing on the engine as the starter can handle. See bottom of page 2... http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/distributors/8386_instructions.pdfEven stock 318's run like junk at idle with 8-10 BTDC... just the way it is. I don't think any 318's I have/had run less than 14 initial. This engine has a cam in it, needs more initial. 20 initial and 16 mechanical will run one heck of a lot better than 10 initial and 26 mechanical... but what do I know! LOL He has no control over the idle mixture... what's that tell you? If floats are set correctly and no dripping boosters, my guess, the throttle plates are too far open, getting into the transfer slot. Common problem with the total timing/not enough initial, gas out the neighborhood crew because the car runs like junk at idle.
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Re: Timing and Tuning For Dummies...Give me the 411
[Re: RobX4406]
#1278435
08/05/12 04:42 AM
08/05/12 04:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Yup, that .509 will want as much initial as you can throw at it. Also, if you have a loose enough converter to actually make that cam happy you will want to have the total advance come in fast as well. If you are using a old or new electronic Mopar distributor, shorten the advance slots in the distributor and crank up the initial to 18°-20°. The FBO advance limiter plate kit from FBO works great and is very easy to use. http://www.4secondsflat.com/Ignition.htmlThe reason for restricting total timing is if you try and set the initial timing at a happy 18°-20°, when all of the mechanical advance kicks in with its additional 26° you will end up with 44°-46° of total timing and you will/could rattle the engine to death with detonation. The only way to fix this is to weld the slots, or install the plate kit from FBO. 
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