School me on roller lifters
#1267914
07/14/12 08:18 PM
07/14/12 08:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
|
I always used flat tapper hydraulic lifters, but with the lack of Zn in today's oils, I was thinking about going to rollers. Are there roller lifters that can be used on old 440 and 383 blocks (1968 and 1969 motors)? What do I need to look out for going with rollers? Thanks all.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project
69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed.
70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project
2023 Ford Mach 1
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: RoadRunner]
#1267916
07/14/12 09:12 PM
07/14/12 09:12 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
|
I just reserved a copy of Andy F's big block book too. Two years ago I put a 440 with 9.5:1 cr so I could run pump gas. But it bent push rods on intake on cylinder 3. Last bend wiped cam on that lobe. So now I am looking at building yet another engine. I usually bring the car to the nationals but not this year. So now I'm looking at options for new bullet.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project
69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed.
70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project
2023 Ford Mach 1
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: RoadRunner]
#1267917
07/15/12 12:54 AM
07/15/12 12:54 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
|
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
|
Build it right and you can get away with 11:1 on pump gas.. no problem.
Rollar lifters.. theres not much to know. Less friction, less cam wear, mucho more expensive to retrofit into a BBD.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: RoadRunner]
#1267918
07/15/12 10:44 AM
07/15/12 10:44 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
|
Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
Are there roller lifters that can be used on old 440 and 383 blocks
Yes, too many !!!
Quote:
Rollar lifters.. theres not much to know
Probably the biggest understatement I've heard in years !!!
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: DARTH V8Я]
#1267920
07/15/12 12:38 PM
07/15/12 12:38 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
|
Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
Really.. how so? Its just a normal lifter with a wHeel & guides attached.
Style of lifter - solid body or banded.
Pushrod oiling or not.
Pressurized oil to the roller or not.
Where the oil holes are located relative to the oil galleys.
Roller wheel shrouded (non-bushed block) or unshrouded (bushed block). Roller wheel size (to take advantage or the large Mopar bore).
I've probably missed a few things!
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: RoadRunner]
#1267921
07/15/12 12:43 PM
07/15/12 12:43 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
|
Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
|
Quote:
I always used flat tapper hydraulic lifters, but with the lack of Zn in today's oils, I was thinking about going to rollers. Are there roller lifters that can be used on old 440 and 383 blocks (1968 and 1969 motors)? What do I need to look out for going with rollers? Thanks all.
I would not even entertain the thought of a roller for a hydraulic type street build. Way too much $$$ for way too little benefit IMHO. Almost none of the aftermarket rollers are designed for long term use and by that I mean install them and don't go near them for 100,000 miles.
The simple solution for a flat tappet build is to run your favorite brand of 15w40 diesel oil and drive on. While all 15w40 oils have less zinc than they use to, they still have more than most passenger car oils ever had. If you really can't sleep at night, add a bottle of GM EOS or whatever equivalent zinc additive the cam companies are flogging.
90+% of cam lobe failures happen during break in and I would wager 99.9% of those were caused by the lifters not rotating. Very simple to check for. Before you put the intake back on, turn the engine over a couple of times and watch each lifter. If you find one that doesn't turn, swap it to another lobe. If it still won't turn, replace it.
Kevin
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: Twostick]
#1267923
07/15/12 01:01 PM
07/15/12 01:01 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
Quote:
I always used flat tapper hydraulic lifters, but with the lack of Zn in today's oils, I was thinking about going to rollers. Are there roller lifters that can be used on old 440 and 383 blocks (1968 and 1969 motors)? What do I need to look out for going with rollers? Thanks all.
I would not even entertain the thought of a roller for a hydraulic type street build. Way too much $$$ for way too little benefit IMHO. Almost none of the aftermarket rollers are designed for long term use and by that I mean install them and don't go near them for 100,000 miles.
The simple solution for a flat tappet build is to run your favorite brand of 15w40 diesel oil and drive on. While all 15w40 oils have less zinc than they use to, they still have more than most passenger car oils ever had. If you really can't sleep at night, add a bottle of GM EOS or whatever equivalent zinc additive the cam companies are flogging.
90+% of cam lobe failures happen during break in and I would wager 99.9% of those were caused by the lifters not rotating. Very simple to check for. Before you put the intake back on, turn the engine over a couple of times and watch each lifter. If you find one that doesn't turn, swap it to another lobe. If it still won't turn, replace it.
Kevin
I guess I could agree with that, but I also think A lot of cam failures are from improper setup AKA wrong lash or preload. It's a very simple measurment, but seems like a lot people get it wrong? imo
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: kdsmith07]
#1267925
07/15/12 10:35 PM
07/15/12 10:35 PM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
|
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
|
Quote:
i have heard a few members mention andy f's bb book.is that the book to have?i have an older one by chuck senatore and was wondering if it's good also.TIA 
They are both good books. Really, this site is a great resource. Andy F often provides his input.
With any cam, the lobe profiles and required spring pressures are important when looking at durability.
A race cam will have very fast ramps and stiff valve springs and they are much harder on the valvetrain than a cam designed for a street car (and more expensive.)
My old engine had a solid roller street cam, that never gave me any problem at all. Valve lash never changed, and the bronze drive gear looked great after 10,000 miles. The solid roller race cam I'm using in the 500" stroker is hard on the valve train (and cylinder heads...), for added durability with that cam I am running $500/set valve springs, with Ti retainers (about $300), hardened 10-degree locks, lash caps, and spring cups (actually locates the inner spring.) so I probably have almost $1,000 in just the valve spring setup, not to mention $1,000 rocker arms, and $300 pushrods.
The Hydraulic roller in the 505" street car is milider, and easier on parts. The valve springs were only $150 /set, used regular Comp 10-degree steel retainers and locks, and 5/16" x 0.083" wall pushrods (still $200+/set.) The rockers are super cheap CAT 1.7:1 ratio stainless steel units (which is an experiment and gamble.) So far I only have about 100 miles on the engine, but no problems.
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1267928
07/16/12 12:06 AM
07/16/12 12:06 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
|
Scott where did you get this idea? If you have a very large cam with very high pressure valve springs (over 700 lbs open), then yes this may be true. But otherwise this is NOT the case.
Roller lifters in large cam motors need to be periodically rebuilt. Other wise roller lifters are very reliable and long lasting. With ones with pressurized oil to the bearings, prolonged idling is not an issue.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
|
|
|
Re: School me on roller lifters
[Re: Twostick]
#1267930
07/16/12 03:55 AM
07/16/12 03:55 AM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
|
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
|
Quote:
Keep a close eye on those rockers. I had a set of similar type knock offs. Thank God for leaky valve cover gaskets. Found one rocker with one side of the arm broken and all the roller tips were loose on their axles.
Kevin
Will do. I got these on some closeout sale for $199. It they would have been more expensive, I doubt I would have bought them. I figured the stainless bodies and bronze bushings should be pretty durable with only around #375 open pressure? I think the roller tip just rolls on the pin, so I will check those out. I may change the valve covers or add better baffels to the stock covers because the PCV is picking up some oil. I think these rockers, or the 0.614" lift are throwing quite a bit of oil around inside the valve covers?
|
|
|
|
|
