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Ed you must be forgetting about me. I am your biggest fan. I love your black Maxi. I would think with the displacment,cross section of the port combined with cross ram intake the torque curve is flat and broad. I would like to see how the car would do with a taller gear.

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Uh I thought I was Ed's biggest fan of his awesome 63 ? I would love to see how the Maxie runs with a different intake other then the crossram. But of course thats not legal. Ed your 63 runs truly awesome. I honestly know a well prepped race Hemi can basically outrun anything. But I think the wedge can get very close as Ed has and many wedges can outrun Hemi's on the street because many people run better prepped wedges on the street then the way the street Hemi's are prepped. But even up most of us know the Hemi rules. I just like the fact that the Max Wedges run so good for less cash. And 63's never had Hemi's. Ron

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Six...what's it cost to build a 9.90 wedge and what's it cost to build a 9.90 Hemi

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If ya gotta ask......


What's it cost to build a 8.20 @160+ SS legal HEMI and what's it cost to build an 8.20 @160+ SS legal wedge.....both at 3200#???

What's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod HEMI and what's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod wedge???

What's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph (1320ft) HEMI and what's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph wedge???


Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.

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Six...what's it cost to build a 9.90 wedge and what's it cost to build a 9.90 Hemi

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If ya gotta ask......


What's it cost to build a 8.20 @160+ SS legal HEMI and what's it cost to build an 8.20 @160+ SS legal wedge.....both at 3200#???

What's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod HEMI and what's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod wedge???

What's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph (1320ft) HEMI and what's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph wedge???


Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.

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Maybe this will help sway the Wedge guys

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All jokes aside, the HEMI is a fine engine and a GREAT base for an "all-out" racer OR an "ultimate"
limited street ride. Sure, IF I had the cash - why not a HEMI? But economics and plain "common sense" to run "just-as-fast, for less" is my approach. Never knocking the HEMI owners/racers at all - I just the opposition on a "smaller scale" with less glamour.

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I for one never had the desire to run a HEMI. If one fell in my lap I would sell it to buy more wedge parts. I prefer go to show so for my applications the wedge makes a cheaper more reliable build. The trend for years has always been that the older racers build the bigger, heavier cars and are usually happy running a high 9 second pass or in the 10's. There are some exceptions to the rule but this is what I have seen as a trend over the years.

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with you, EXCEPT that I wouldn't pass
a HEMI up if it fell in MY lap!! I'd build up to the point that I could run FASTER than the 9.0
index, comfortably and reliably. Anything slower than 9.90, the "Maxie" fits the bill!!

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Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.

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Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or
trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".

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Sometimes it is not a matter of how fast you want to go but how you want to show. I am building a blown 588" Hemi with a 14-71 and will be doing street/strip duty as well as just plain old fashion showing off. Some folks just want a Hemi because..... and if you can afford it go for it, remember... you can't take it with you so live a little. It does not matter to me wether you go fast on the cheap, in between or in high style it's hot rodding man.

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Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.

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Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or
trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".

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If you take the whole of my entire post, you will see that the combinations I listed are basically not possible with an inline valve, wedge head.

The reason I mentioned reality is because it is unrealistic to think one can build an inline valve, iron headed MOPAR....within a restricted Superstock rules package and think it could produce 8.20 elasped times, or crest 160+mph in a 3200# 40 year old body style.

Just as a legal Promod, deep into the 5 second zone at 260+mph, or a Fuel car running near 340mph in 1320ft is a job best left to a HEMI style engine.

Not to mention what happens at the local car show, cruise night, or burger joint when the hood pops and common folk notice the plug wires routed into the valve covers.

Realities all and no amount of money can dream the inline head into these territories.

This is not to say that the excellent MOPAR wedge engine doesn't have a huge place in the world of performance. They are strong...reliable...cost effective...powerful alternatives to the more exotic engines in the MOPAR arsenal.

There is plenty of room for both HEMI and wedge engines. My only point is this....as good as both style engines can be, in no way shape or form is the ceiling of the wedge equal to the HEMI....be it in max N/A iron headed form, or all aluminum with a $10,000 supercharger jamming exotic fules into it......PERIOD.

In the mid level and even into some very serious builds, the B1 selections (especially the PSO) are capable of outstanding numbers, but that's when the costs of the engines begins to narrow. Moreover, the technology of builds at this level, seem to favor the wedge engine in a number of build-ups I've seen, including those in this very forum. I have yet to see a Millennium headed engine be assembled with all the trimmings....dry sumps, lobe relocation, raw castings carved with the latest port design, state of the art ring stacks w/max vac......etc.

Bottom line, for most applications, a straight headed MOPAR will get the job done very nicely, but there are certain arenas when a HEMI head and ONLY a HEMI head will do.

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Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.

---

Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or
trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".

---

If you take the whole of my entire post, you will see that the combinations I listed are basically not possible with an inline valve, wedge head.

The reason I mentioned reality is because it is unrealistic to think one can build an inline valve, iron headed MOPAR....within a restricted Superstock rules package and think it could produce 8.20 elasped times, or crest 160+mph in a 3200# 40 year old body style.

Just as a legal Promod, deep into the 5 second zone at 260+mph, or a Fuel car running near 340mph in 1320ft is a job best left to a HEMI style engine.

Not to mention what happens at the local car show, cruise night, or burger joint when the hood pops and common folk notice the plug wires routed into the valve covers.

Realities all and no amount of money can dream the inline head into these territories.

This is not to say that the excellent MOPAR wedge engine doesn't have a huge place in the world of performance. They are strong...reliable...cost effective...powerful alternatives to the more exotic engines in the MOPAR arsenal.

There is plenty of room for both HEMI and wedge engines. My only point is this....as good as both style engines can be, in no way shape or form is the ceiling of the wedge equal to the HEMI....be it in max N/A iron headed form, or all aluminum with a $10,000 supercharger jamming exotic fules into it......PERIOD.

In the mid level and even into some very serious builds, the B1 selections (especially the PSO) are capable of outstanding numbers, but that's when the costs of the engines begins to narrow. Moreover, the technology of builds at this level, seem to favor the wedge engine in a number of build-ups I've seen, including those in this very forum. I have yet to see a Millennium headed engine be assembled with all the trimmings....dry sumps, lobe relocation, raw castings carved with the latest port design, state of the art ring stacks w/max vac......etc.

Bottom line, for most applications, a straight headed MOPAR will get the job done very nicely, but there are certain arenas when a HEMI head and ONLY a HEMI head will do.

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Amen.

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Quote:

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Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.

---

Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or
trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".

---

If you take the whole of my entire post, you will see that the combinations I listed are basically not possible with an inline valve, wedge head.

The reason I mentioned reality is because it is unrealistic to think one can build an inline valve, iron headed MOPAR....within a restricted Superstock rules package and think it could produce 8.20 elasped times, or crest 160+mph in a 3200# 40 year old body style.

Just as a legal Promod, deep into the 5 second zone at 260+mph, or a Fuel car running near 340mph in 1320ft is a job best left to a HEMI style engine.

Not to mention what happens at the local car show, cruise night, or burger joint when the hood pops and common folk notice the plug wires routed into the valve covers.

Realities all and no amount of money can dream the inline head into these territories.

This is not to say that the excellent MOPAR wedge engine doesn't have a huge place in the world of performance. They are strong...reliable...cost effective...powerful alternatives to the more exotic engines in the MOPAR arsenal.

There is plenty of room for both HEMI and wedge engines. My only point is this....as good as both style engines can be, in no way shape or form is the ceiling of the wedge equal to the HEMI....be it in max N/A iron headed form, or all aluminum with a $10,000 supercharger jamming exotic fules into it......PERIOD.

In the mid level and even into some very serious builds, the B1 selections (especially the PSO) are capable of outstanding numbers, but that's when the costs of the engines begins to narrow. Moreover, the technology of builds at this level, seem to favor the wedge engine in a number of build-ups I've seen, including those in this very forum. I have yet to see a Millennium headed engine be assembled with all the trimmings....dry sumps, lobe relocation, raw castings carved with the latest port design, state of the art ring stacks w/max vac......etc.

Bottom line, for most applications, a straight headed MOPAR will get the job done very nicely, but there are certain arenas when a HEMI head and ONLY a HEMI head will do.

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Very well said.
The only thing I might add is that alot of people seem to think the Hemi will awe everyone at a car show but I dont see this much anymore. I mean I used to see it all the time when Hemi's were scarce but I see so many Hemi's out there now that its not as big a deal as it used to be. It seems like there is always at least one or two or more Hemi's at my local cruise nite. Not like when I saw a 63 Ford with a 427 SOHC since they are so rare everyone was looking at it. Dont mean this to downplay the Hemi I just wanted to state that I see alot more Hemi's on the road now then I did 30 years ago or even 15 years ago. Myself I run to look when its a real factory Hemi car like a real 64 Hemi SS car or an original 68 Hemi Roadrunner. I guess we see so many more because they are alot of clones with Hemi's. And I also run when I see a real max Wedge car. Ron