Hemi vs Wedge

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A wedge will work but a hemi is prettier. Hemi's used to be expensive so I understand why people drove wedges but today if you are building from new parts the cost is the same nearly to the penny. (If you want to go thru the price list item by item we will.) I will never figure out why someone would drive a wedge.

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This debate will rage on forever...

They both make good power. All Ill say is this, and I drive and build a lot of brandX stuff, too. All things being equal(like dont compare a full boogie B-1 with a stock street hemi), nothing feels like a hemi up top. It turns on when the others are turning off. Period...

MB

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This debate will rage on forever...

They both make good power. All Ill say is this, and I drive and build a lot of brandX stuff, too. All things being equal(like dont compare a full boogie B-1 with a stock street hemi), nothing feels like a hemi up top. It turns on when the others are turning off. Period...

MB

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Hmm.r we talking about top end charge in the 1/4 mi or highway

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Stock castings the 426 has almost unlimited horsepower, the wedge not so much, the heads just do not flow anywhere near what the Hemi's do. Wedge block is good for what, 600HP before it breaks, 426 Hemi at least double that.
So you want your wedge to make big power so you need an aftermarket block, heads, rocker gear etc. Same cost as Hemi aftermarket parts.
They're both great engines but different.
Most people have never driven a Hemi, a stock 440 car still pulls okay when you punch it in high gear, a stock 426 Hemi pulls like gangbusters in high gear and feels like that wedge does in low gear. 440 is a great torque engine, the 426 Hemi is a great horsepower engine.

Sheldon

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This debate will rage on forever...

They both make good power. All Ill say is this, and I drive and build a lot of brandX stuff, too. All things being equal(like dont compare a full boogie B-1 with a stock street hemi), nothing feels like a hemi up top. It turns on when the others are turning off. Period...

MB

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Hmm.r we talking about top end charge in the 1/4 mi or highway

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Can you afford ($$$) to build a Hemi and all the additional up keep that a Hemi requires? If so a Hemi is the #1 choice.

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This debate will rage on forever...

They both make good power. All Ill say is this, and I drive and build a lot of brandX stuff, too. All things being equal(like dont compare a full boogie B-1 with a stock street hemi), nothing feels like a hemi up top. It turns on when the others are turning off. Period...

MB

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Exactly that: I just switched tow vehicles last year and just 2 weeks ago opened up the 5.7 hemi on the highway. The old truck was a 5.9 and would start to lay over around 90-95 mph and the 5.7 started really moving about 80 and didn't quit until I did @110mph. I'd say that's an equal comparison.

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You never hear a hemi owner say " someday i'll own a wedge"

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Thats a fact!!!
Two kinds of people in this world...those who have Hemis and those who want Hemis
Never heard that said about wedges!
Also as far as additional maintence being required, if you just want to put gas in it and go a Hemi probaly isnt for you, but what real race motor doesnt require so occasional TLC. Those who say Wedges and Hemis are equal, havent learned how to tune a Hemi.

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"Here's the BOOMERANG, comin' back at ya !"

Wedges, since the first ram-inducted big block, have always been easier to tune than HEMIS. FACT IS that wedges offer better tractability for "street wars" and moderate strip work in comparison to the HEMIS. Sure the HEMI needs sharp
tuning to run well and it's a bit more costly to run on the street, BUT.. it offers much MORE raw performance than the wedge in upper classes of NHRA/IHRA and brackets. They are running on the streets with good success since the 60's and the costs are slightly higher than a wedge (stroker) motor. Tuning them (HEMIS), are a little easier now, than in the 60's, due to more information on them as well as the improved parts available for them. Basically it boils down to the "age old" question - "How fast do you really want to go ?". You want to run 8.90's, or faster with ease, few engine problems and have the money - go with the HEMI. 9.00's or slower, the lower operating cost/performance advantage is on the wedge side The performance margin ALWAYS slides to the HEMI as you pass BELOW the 9 sec barrier. No disrespect intended, but IMO, a well-tuned 440 (whether 6-pack or 4bbl) or a HOT MAX WEDGE motor, CAN and HAS beaten a HEMI (unless the HEMI is in full race trim).
'Nuff said and that's MY cents!

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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OK...So with your theory.

Take a stock full bodied 3,600# 440 Challenger with a non tricked stock 4 speed.

Put 12.5:1 pistons
A set of headers.
Lets say a Torker intake.
An electric fuel pump.
A solid cam with mid 70's technology, like the Racer Brown.
An Edelbrock carb(just because the Competition Series Carters were just fancy versions of the original AFB's and were of the exact same design).
Any gears you want.
Dual point distributor.
100% stock suspension.
Untouched 906 heads and the stock valvetrain.

With that recipe you are saying you would run 10.30's at 134?? Lets not forget, this was done in 1975 with just a regular guy building/tuning the car, not some guru....

MB

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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OK...So with your theory.

Take a stock full bodied 3,600# 440 Challenger with a non tricked stock 4 speed.

Put 12.5:1 pistons
A set of headers.
Lets say a Torker intake.
An electric fuel pump.
A solid cam with mid 70's technology, like the Racer Brown.
An Edelbrock carb(just because the Competition Series Carters were just fancy versions of the original AFB's and were of the exact same design).
Any gears you want.
Dual point distributor.
100% stock suspension.
Untouched 906 heads and the stock valvetrain.

With that recipe you are saying you would run 10.30's at 134?? Lets not forget, this was done in 1975 with just a regular guy building/tuning the car, not some guru....

MB

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So you get 2 carbs and I'm stuck w/ one pitiful carter? How about a short Ram w/ 2 holleys or a factory 6-pack? Probably do at least a home port job on the heads and run old isky rockers...I mean you're tearing the motor apart anyway right. My main point was your hemi was not stock. And the wedge might not be at 10.30 but It wouldn't be too far behind. Remember it doesn't need to see 7000rpm.

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Who said the Hemi was stock??

But my comparison is "apples to apples". The hemi comes from the factory with two carbs, so you arent adding anything. Add carbs to your wedge and you are. All I am trying to illustrate is that you arent going to get nearly as far with the equivalent work on a wedge as you would a Hemi. Period. And when you start really turning up the heat, then the wedge really gets left behind. The wedge then needs serious aftermarket parts. There is a reason these cars got their own classification in Super Stock. It was otherwise an unfair advantage to anything else. And the wedge is actually a "bigger" engine technically speaking.



MB

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"The hemi comes from the factory with two carbs, so you arent adding anything. Add carbs to your wedge and you are."

440 comes with 3??? not saying a hemi isn't a better engine at all, just saying for 90% of us it's not financially practical. Even if it's going in a race car unless the OP wants to go 8's a wedge now a days is going to be much cheaper. You can build a real nice wedge for under 10k.... you can't build a Hemi for that. If you can you already have half the parts on your shelf.

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The thing is once you own the parts there is no engine easier to make power with. You can make more power by mistake. Its no problem at all to make 7 or 800 hp with all the stock castings, stock rocker arms for crying out loud. Try that with a wedge.

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Thanks Tommy. thats kinda what I have been trying to say...

Mr Y, not saying wedges suck, its just that my original point was that with relatively minimal mods and caveman technology these things made tons of steam. Apply the same level of mods to the wedge and you arent getting the same results-not even close. We all know you can make a B-1 or Predator headed "wedge" motor thgt hauls the mail, but thats a discussion for another thread.

MB

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It's just nice to know that you can get BOTH a "full race-orientated" motor (HEMI), and a "Super Street" type motor
(Wedge) on the SAME big block platform from MA MOPAR.

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I like the fact that you are trying to compare a wedge to a hemi

two diffrent motors

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Two different motors, yes...but from the SAME
basic foundation or block dimensions.
HEMI - High rpm powerhouse.
WEDGE - Lower rpm torque monster.
Best battleground is between the 220ft and 1000ft marks (1/4 mi). A good lead margin there, you've won.

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I think what this poster means is that basically they took the 426 Max Wedge block and adapted Hemi heads to it. Yes they had to change the block as it would not hold up at first and was craking cylinders I believe. And they went to 4 bolt mains and have the Head bolts come from underneath. But it was developed from the wedge block. Ron

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Thank you Ron, for the careful observation! That's EXACTLY what they (Chrysler engineers) did for the high output/high rpm characteristics of this motor. "Fortification" to say the LEAST. I believe the main caps were "cross-bolted" into the block at #2,#3 and #4
main caps. The 64' Stage III 426 Max-Wedge motors might have been setup the same way. They also had the conventional 2 bolt setup on all 5 caps.

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I like the fact that you are trying to compare a wedge to a hemi

two diffrent motors

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Two different motors, yes...but from the SAME
basic foundation or block dimensions.
HEMI - High rpm powerhouse.
WEDGE - Lower rpm torque monster.
Best battleground is between the 220ft and 1000ft marks (1/4 mi). A good lead margin there, you've won.

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I shift my HEMI at 7,300 and cross the line at 7,600. Car has been 8.46 @ 161 all motor 2 small carbs at 3200 lbs.
just sayin...

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Power to weight, my friend!
Lighter weight always helps (free hp).

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I like the fact that you are trying to compare a wedge to a hemi

two diffrent motors

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Two different motors, yes...but from the SAME
basic foundation or block dimensions.
HEMI - High rpm powerhouse.
WEDGE - Lower rpm torque monster.
Best battleground is between the 220ft and 1000ft marks (1/4 mi). A good lead margin there, you've won.

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the blocks are not the same


if the wedge block was like the hemi block (4 )cross bolt mains


and they kept the max wedge port or even bigger / diffrent head (none hemi )


maybe the wedge would have been better than it is


if you where to compare the hemi to big block chevy it would be intresting

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Let's unravel your statements here:

Block dimensions and BORE spacing is exactly the same. They are NOT built on the SAME block!!

They have THREE (3) cross-bolted main caps.

Maxie heads are fine up to 450 ci, maybe 470. 500
or more cubes, think about aftermarket and/or "fully ported" Maxies with bigger valves. Wedges have a WIDE selection of cylinder heads.

Chrysler Wedges are getting BETTER as each year passes.

Comparing a Big-Block Chevy to a HEMI? No comparision ( sorry chevy guys). HEMI can and will
rpm in places where "Rat Motors" will never go to.
Funny thing though, Ford's 427 SOHC motor could do
major strip damage to a Chevy Big Block also! 600+
horses "out-the-box"! After all, it IS a hemi (head type) motor!

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I like the fact that you are trying to compare a wedge to a hemi

two diffrent motors

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Two different motors, yes...but from the SAME
basic foundation or block dimensions.
HEMI - High rpm powerhouse.
WEDGE - Lower rpm torque monster.
Best battleground is between the 220ft and 1000ft marks (1/4 mi). A good lead margin there, you've won.

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the blocks are not the same


if the wedge block was like the hemi block (4 )cross bolt mains


and they kept the max wedge port or even bigger / diffrent head (none hemi )


maybe the wedge would have been better than it is


if you where to compare the hemi to big block chevy it would be intresting

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Let's unravel your statements here:

Block dimensions and BORE spacing is exactly the same. They are NOT built on the SAME block!!

They have THREE (3) cross-bolted main caps.

Maxie heads are fine up to 450 ci, maybe 470. 500
or more cubes, think about aftermarket and/or "fully ported" Maxies with bigger valves. Wedges have a WIDE selection of cylinder heads.

Chrysler Wedges are getting BETTER as each year passes.

Comparing a Big-Block Chevy to a HEMI? No comparision ( sorry chevy guys). HEMI can and will
rpm in places where "Rat Motors" will never go to.
Funny thing though, Ford's 427 SOHC motor could do
major strip damage to a Chevy Big Block also! 600+
horses "out-the-box"! After all, it IS a hemi (head type) motor!

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If you have ever seen a "Ball Stud" Hemi it was for all intents and purposes a knock off of the Chevrolet Big Block. The design was proven and while it didnt offer the true "maximum performance" of the 426Hemi, the big chevrolet made tons of power and was a far more uncomplicated and cheaper design. Probably the best overall high performance engine ever produced when you take everything into account...

MB