Re: SMOG issue.... who knows any tricks?
[Re: CSK]
#1235306
05/19/12 12:42 PM
05/19/12 12:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
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Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
the only way to make it pass is with a 4 gas system & make idle speed,mixture screw adjustments while noting changes
This is a new one. 4 Gas system? I would think that with the 2500 rpm test beating the max limits by a long shot, that I should be able to get the idle numbers down. Maybe I'll visit the smog guys on Monday, or look for one of the few remaining "No pass, No pay" shops.
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Re: SMOG issue.... who knows any tricks?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1235311
05/19/12 11:57 PM
05/19/12 11:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,448 So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,448
So Cal
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As you troubleshoot it.. Find a friendly smog guy who will do a pretest.. If you keep going back and failing the car will be assigned as a Gross Polluter..Just my $0.02..
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Re: SMOG issue.... who knows any tricks?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1235314
05/20/12 03:02 AM
05/20/12 03:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Yeah... THAT was helpful.
Yeah, but true. We're almost as bad as California and i really do hate it here...
First off, there are a few shops around here that will test you for $5-10 as often as you want. They dont have every single number you may need, but you can at least know when you're wasting your time. I've used one here several times for this exact reason, probably saved me a lot ov money.
Second, you didn't answer a question above: Did that truck come with cats? If it did, you're kinda pissing up a tree trying to make to pass without. Run a different exhaust for emission tests... on a truck it could literally be a 4ft long one-piece off the engine, into one big cat and out the side... on and off in minutes.
Third. Always crank up the idle to absolute max. Ours here is 1150RPM. Any more at idle and they wont test it. I see some guys having trouble idling in there at 600, which to me at least seems like unnecessarily hamstringing yourself. Put something in the tank, like many here have offered, along with 94 octane from the pump, and make damn sure ALL your older gas is out ov there, if you have any. Tune it lean. The 210 thermo is a neat trick, might have to try that one.
I'm definitely no expert on this stuff... but i've passed some serious junk through ours over the years. Some places wont test you (on the rollers at least) if you have studded tires. Hmmm...
I'll be dealing with my own emissions demons soon enough... trying to decide whether to install my fat stinky cam in the engine before i dump it in the car. It'll vastly save me grief installing and breaking in a cam in the car, only to replace them with emissions grief trying to 'tune' it through...
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Re: SMOG issue.... who knows any tricks?
[Re: Dcuda69]
#1235316
05/22/12 08:39 PM
05/22/12 08:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
300 max 1003 measured HC 3.00 max .16 measured CO If this is right(I copied pasted)It almost looks like a lean miss. That IS what the smog guy thought it could be With no cats I would expect CO a little higher(maybe 1-2%)1000 HC is a misfire almost for sure. Absolutely sure there's no vac leak? I just bought a propane can to try. Tha carb cleaner runs out too fast! How about a cylinder power balance to make they're all firing? I know you said it runs smooth but 1000 HC is real high cats or no cats!! Just throwing ideas out.
A few more bits: I asked about using methanol or rubbbing alcohol. He said that this trick only works in vehicles with catalytic converters, since it heats up the cats and they work harder. I can't legally weld in a pair of cats since the vehicle wasn't originally fitted with them. Higher idle? He said that the upper limit is around 850. I'll try to get near there. I bought a set of plug wires, a cap and rotor and an intake valley pan. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have some good news. Thanks to all for the suggestions! Greg
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Re: SMOG issue....UPDATE !! IT just PASSED!
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1235317
05/23/12 03:24 PM
05/23/12 03:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
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Striving for excellence
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OP
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Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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The Trail Duster JUST passed the smog test! I think that after the 2nd test, it became clear that it may have had excessive idle HC numbers because the engine wasn't as warm as it was during the first test.
Test#1:
1:11 PM Idle rpm 674 HC PPM 300 MAX HC PPM 651 measured
2500 2585 HC PPM 350 MAX HC PPM 36 measured
Test #2 9:20 AM Idle RPM 862 HC PPM 300 MAX HC PPM 1003 measured
The differences between the two tests? I replaced 2 vacuum lines, checked for leaks, replaced the carb base gasket, removed a vac line to the inop cruise control and raised the idle speed, PLUS the engine was a little cooler. Yesterday I talked with the tech again and he suggested trying another carburetor or new plug wires. At home I DID replace the cap, rotor, plug wires AND add 1 1/2 gallons on E85. I raised the idle and backed out the idle mixture screws 1/2 turn. here are the numbers:
Idle 974 HC PPM 300 MAX, HC PPM 28 measured !! 2500 HC PPM 350 MAX HC PPM 49 measured! FANTASTIC! As always though, I'm curious as to what made the difference. I remember the guideline : "Do only one change at a time." In this case, I had to play it safe. I was lucky to find a NO PASS, NO PAY smog shop nearby. I suppose that I'll just keep a record of what I did for the next time. Thanks for the suggestions, Greg
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Re: SMOG issue....UPDATE !! IT just PASSED!
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#1235321
05/23/12 06:12 PM
05/23/12 06:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
I'm not a smog expert, BUT it is clear that when you raised the idle you went sufficiently off the idle circuit and into the cruise circuit, indicating that the problem is in the carb idle circuit
I agree there. I also sprayed some carb cleaner down alongside the metering rod passages. It may be safe to say that a quality rebuild of this carburetor would improve matters without having to resort to any tricks. I've rebuilt Holleys, but these Carter T-quads are a wee bit more complicated!
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