What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
#1214151
04/11/12 01:34 PM
04/11/12 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
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Sweet Home Alabama
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Help me build the ultimate low deck engine with some of the parts I have
1. Indy Maxx Aluminum Block finished deck height 9.965(this is the 440 RB Block machined down to the low deck height uses the 440 2.943 main bore size) it has been stroke clearance. The engine was a 528 cu in with 4.50 bore x 4.15 stroke with 1.30 compression height with this combo the pistons set .020 in the hole. I am thinking of using a 4.50 crankshaft with the 6.570 rods with a 1.15 or 1.16 compression height piston. This combo will pull the piston down .130 further so that means the counter weights on the crankshaft would need turning down possibly .130. This should make a light weight rotating assembly. Is this a possible build?
2. Indy 572-13 Heads full cnc ported with Jezel 1.7 x 1.7 rockers
3. New BME 6.575 aluminum rods.
4. I must buy the pistons. I am leaning toward a custom set of gas ported diamond pistons. What piston would everyone suggest using?
5. I must buy a crankshaft. I am planning on using a 4.50 crank but if that is not possible I will try to use a 4.375 I know a 4.25 crank will work, but I would like to have more cu in. What brand and what stroke crankshaft would everyone suggest?
6. I must buy a camshaft. I am thinking of using a Cams Motion CM3 rpm range 5200-7600 duration 284/300 lift 816/766. What camshaft would everyone suggest?
7. The Indy Maxx aluminum block uses the spraybar valve covers(which I already have). Should I convert it over to push rod oiling?
This is not a fantasy build, this will be a real build! If you all help me build the ultimate low deck engine, I will post everything from the beginning of the build, the dyno, to putting it in my dragster providing the ultimate results that really count - the ET!
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1214152
04/11/12 01:56 PM
04/11/12 01:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
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Forget the long stroke engines. No need to use more than 4.25, the long stroke motors using the same heads doesnt run much if any better. I have built a few big bore and long 4.5 stroke engines both Hemi and wedge. The longer stroke is harder on parts for sure, lots more piston speed etc. Build the largest bore engine you can get, use a 4.15 or 4.25 stroke, light weight stuff, and spin the engine some. I would NOT use those heads in a "Ultimate Engine" however. No reason that they couldnt make 850+ HP pretty easy N/A though. Set some power goals, and build around the heads.
Last edited by Bob_Coomer; 04/11/12 04:53 PM.
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#1214153
04/11/12 02:04 PM
04/11/12 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,384 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I Live Here
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I think my little low deck works pretty well Sell those heads and buy some good ones 525" KB Block, B1MC Oval ported heads flow 457cfm, 850 roller, 15-1 compression built using all the best parts yo ucan buy. Propels my hunk o junk to 8.0's and been 169.6 at 2940lbs. Needs more gear and better convertor to really run well. As for the question BORE makes HP, stroke just moves it around and will ad some torque. To greatly over simplify thing. You do not need a ton of stroke to make big power. Both of my engines are short stroke big bore deals. At 1050+ and 1314hp they do ok. Both are also relatively small these days. Heck the 99 is smaller than most street BB's are anymore and the B1 is as well.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: old yeller]
#1214155
04/11/12 02:41 PM
04/11/12 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903 Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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My 557" with lowly -1 heads made 955hp...
I like the 4.5 bore w/ 4.375" stroke combo in a low deck with 6.635" rods.
No need for more cubes, just spin it up!
Cheers,
Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: cudabin]
#1214156
04/11/12 03:57 PM
04/11/12 03:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
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THANKS everyone that's what I am looking for lots of advice and input from the people who build and run Mopar engines.I have a few good parts to begin the build and willing to spend some $$$ to try and build the "Ultimate" Low Deck engine. Al if you have a spare set of them B1 MC heads you would like to donate to the project to prove your point I'll buy the pistons to use them.Are if want to get your hands on a nice set of 572-13 heads,who knows we might can do some trading. I just pick at you about your B1 stuff I know it is all Hi-$$$.I picked Indy over B1 because that's what everyone around here runs and knows how to make run. Better yet send me that L'ill Hemi engine(I always wanted a Hemi) to put in my light weight dragster and lets see just how fast it will run. I think I can build anything from 528 cu in to 572 cu in. Everyone help me make the choice.
Last edited by MRMOPAR570; 04/11/12 04:04 PM.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1214157
04/11/12 07:37 PM
04/11/12 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I Live Here
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Definitely push rod oiling. I would build the motor with B1Mc heads, if I was doing it again. I left 150 hp on the table by staying with the 440-1 heads. My heads are all done at 900 hp. What ever you do, keep the rotating weight down to a minimum. Spend the money on GOOD pistons, and head porting. I would be asking a lot of questions about still running stainless exhaust valves, going with Ti intakes. Set the Intake valve train up for some serious lift. If the heads flow better all the way to .900 , I would like to try a cam that could use them. That would mean a gross lift in the .950 range. To do that, an oversize cam core and bearings is probably needed. Only you can decide how far you want to go in that department. The higher the lift, the tougher it will be on parts. A tunnelram will make the most power. Dry sump would also help. Edit; I see you already have 572-13s. They are short on port volume and limited on flow when you start talking all out best hp motors. They make good power to a point, but just can't compete with a bigger, straighter port and intake valve.
Last edited by gregsdart; 04/11/12 07:44 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: gregsdart]
#1214158
04/11/12 09:00 PM
04/11/12 09:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
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Thanks Greg, I am just about going to have to stay with the 572-13 heads.Having to buy a set of B1MC heads would take away to much of my $$$ and not leave enough to do much else.But might look into the Ti. intake valves. I already have a tunnel-Ram to use and will run alcohol,gas may be as good but I'm a Bracket-Racer and have to run the alcohol to keep it cool.My other engine has a true 15.3-1 CR, I should have ask this in the begining what is the best CR ratio to run?
Help me out everyone with some more good advice on the stroke,CR and camshaft choices. I want to get everything I can out of this build,with Horse-Power being #1 goal but do not want to go over the top and try and build a 9,000 RPM engine. I don't think 7200-7600 RPM would be to much. This engine will be going in my dragster so it can handle all the HP a engine in this range can make and more.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1214159
04/12/12 08:57 PM
04/12/12 08:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
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Getting ready to start ordering parts 1st of next week to complete the build if. Still have not made my mind up on what cu in yet,I have a choice of 528 4.15 crank, 540 4.25 crank,558 4.375 crank, 572 4.50 crank. Would a low deck 572 with the shorter rod,shorter pistons which should = much lighter bob weight with better rod geometry be more efficient than a RB with longer rod,s and pistons and a much heavier bob weight?
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: joshking440]
#1214161
04/12/12 09:49 PM
04/12/12 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903 Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Here is my 557ci build that made 955hp at 7,200rpm: Bottom end: Keith Black low deck (9.98") Aluminum block. 557ci w/ 4.5 bore. 4.375" stroke K-1 Crank counterwieghts turned .090" during balancing to clear bottom of piston skirt. Bobwieght is 2,221 grams. Oliver Billet steel 6.635" rods w/ 2.20 rod journals, coated rod bearings. Custom Diamond 15:1 compression pistons custom dome for -1 heads w/ 1.15" comp height, gas ported, H-13 tool steel .185" wall pins(fit at .002" for vaccuum pump) Total Seal .042" top ring/ .042" napier second ring and 3mm oil ring with 14# tension. Charlies Alum oil pan w/ milodon dual #12 line, swinging pick up and Melling HV pump. Top end: 2100cfm Ron's Terminator Alcohol Injection on a low deck Indy manifold (port matched). 440-1 Alum heads 345cc intake volume CNC ported by MCH, 382 cfm @ .800", K-Motion K-1000H Springs, Ti retainers. 1.7 ratio Jesel Pro individual shaft rockers, 7/16" .165" wall double taper Trend's w/ push rod oiling. Custom LSM roller 288/304 dur @ .050", .875"/.867" lift, 114 lsa installed at 112 cl. 68 degrees overlap, 4/7 swap, 54mm core. Headers: TTi 2" - 2 1/8" in chassis step headers 4" collectors, Star 4 vane Std Vacuum pump. I ended up breaking the K-motion valve sprigs, so upgraded to #1224 PSI dual damperless springs, and Victory Titanium intake valves for this season. This should improve the reliability and spring life Your heads have a little more potential if max ported, so you should be able to squeak out 1,000hp with a tunnel ram. 15 to 1 or as much as 15.5 to 1 is about right for Methanol IMO. Cheers, Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: old yeller]
#1214163
04/12/12 11:28 PM
04/12/12 11:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
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cudabin,Thanks for sharing your build,it looks like you have a awesome engine. What lifters are you using,the Comp Cams lifters(may be the wrong choice for lifters) that oil through the lifters do not have the off-set? Thanks Again everyone for all the great info.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1214164
04/13/12 01:28 AM
04/13/12 01:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903 Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Yes they are Comp lifters, or at least built from the guy that makes them for Comp, and they pushrod oil and do have the offset intakes to straighten out the pushrods a bit... They also oil the wheel to improve life expectancy, and the oil feed holes are parrellel to the wheel axle to restict oil to the top a little. Got them from Brian and IMM ( OU812) I have 2 sets and will rotate them out after 150 runs... I believe i have maxed out these heads, but a dry sump and a tunnel ram might pick it up a bit?? Should run 8.70's at 4,000 feet DA in my 2,850# Cuda if i can keep it hooked with the 10.5W's. Good luck with the build. Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1214166
04/15/12 11:30 AM
04/15/12 11:30 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
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OP
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Sweet Home Alabama
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cudabin, I found out how to get in touch with Brain,looks like he has a nice set of lifters for the Mopar engines.How many runs do you make before swapping out the lifters? I had a Comp lifter fail and was told I should never make over 125 passes before replacing them.
As for lifters what does everyone think about Crower Endurmax bushed roller lifters? Another member on here told me about them,but they are not cheap. I don't know if I can afford them or even need them with everything else I must buy.
Another question for everyone this engine has the Indy single line oiling system,I have been told in a 7000+RPM engine I needed to go to the dual line. Is this true? My other engine has the single line as well and has not given any trouble so far.But if it is needed I will change both of them over to the dual line system.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: What Would Be The Ultimate Low Deck Engine Build?
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1214167
04/16/12 06:18 PM
04/16/12 06:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42 Sweden
ppmracing
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Sweden
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Hi,, i would go with the 4,530 ore 4,560 and a 4,375 stroke crankshaft with Chevy bb journals, and 6,635 Chevy BB rods in this low deck block.This is the perfect shortblock combo in my world. Use K1 crank and rods if you go for steel rods. Oversize cambearings 55mm roller ore 60mm babbit, then you can go with allot off cam and spring pressure. Piston with gas port and thin ,043 rings. Diamond ore Wiseco. Do the short block right once, and then you dont have to rebuild it again.
Thanks Peter
Last edited by ppmracing; 04/16/12 06:23 PM.
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