Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: JohnRR]
#1188064
03/01/12 01:08 AM
03/01/12 01:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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Pulled the 2 and 4 main caps. Bearing halves looked pretty much like JohnRR's pic above. Maybe not quite as bad, but definitely scored.
No scoring on the crank though from what I've seen this far.
Guess the motor is coming out.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: JohnRR]
#1188065
03/01/12 02:24 AM
03/01/12 02:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
I meant to write this very thing! Forgive me John, I'm starting to emulate your way of thinking! Summit warrantied the first cam when it went bad. After the second one crapped out, I felt that I was pushing my luck so I just let it slide. I slipped back in a cam referred as THE Dinosaur.... the Mopar Performance 292/509. In the time since, Comp began offering that hardening process for their product line. I agree that a Hydraulic roller cam would be a better choice in terms of reliability, but the cost is just too hard to take! I'd have to sell a few parts or scrap a few cars to feel okay about spending $1000 for a cam swap!
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: JohnRR]
#1188066
03/01/12 02:38 AM
03/01/12 02:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
I think my MM lobe solid might have been too much for the street.
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: JohnRR]
#1188067
03/01/12 09:57 AM
03/01/12 09:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,799 ILL
MLR426
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
Thats correct and creates,and resonates the noise. Johnson Hylift manufactures lifters for many companies, At Radiac Abrasive we make grinding wheels for them.
logan426
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1188071
03/02/12 12:40 PM
03/02/12 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
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Well now you got me wondering about using those 10 year old (new in box) Comp lifters and springs with a Hughes Whiplash cam...
Why cant this stuff just be simple...???
10yrs old would put the lifters before the bad ones got dumped into the system , but you want to check and make sure they spin well first .
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: JohnRR]
#1188072
03/02/12 02:56 PM
03/02/12 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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Cam was purchased about a year ago.
Lifters were definitely spinning before the accelerated wear started. I went to extra effort cleaning out the bores and test fitting the lifters at assembly. Judging from the wear pattern, it even appears it continued to spin after the wear started. It would have wiped a lot sooner otherwise. I'm pretty sure botched preload was the culprit.
Picking the next set of lifters right off the proverbial tree. Ordering direct from Topline Hylift.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: 471Magnum]
#1188073
03/02/12 02:59 PM
03/02/12 02:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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I should mention that the set of Comp Cam lifters I just received have no country of origin listed on the packaging. They're going back un-opened.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson
[Re: scatpacktom]
#1188075
03/02/12 03:28 PM
03/02/12 03:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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don't be alarmed when you fire up the XE275HL cam...it's a noisy one too.
I was worried at first when I heard mine, sounded like a sewing machine! but, 4,000 street miles and it never skipped a beat.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update
[Re: 471Magnum]
#1188076
03/07/12 06:09 PM
03/07/12 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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Took the day off today to pull the motor and tear it down.
Pretty much have finished the tear down. All that is left is pulling the crank.
Removed the pistons and rods to find those journals lightly scoured. I think it will clean up with a polish though.
Bigger concern is the piston skirts and bores. Some light scuffing there. Not sure how much would be considered acceptable. I'll try to post a photo later. Hopefully they are salvageable.
Plan is to get the block and crank to the machine shop tomorrow.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1188078
03/07/12 06:28 PM
03/07/12 06:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
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A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Did you tear it apart like I did the last time I had to do that? __
Hopefully you swept before laying the pistons out ...
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update
[Re: 471Magnum]
#1188079
03/07/12 08:48 PM
03/07/12 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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Here is a picture of the #7 bore. Seems to be the worst of them.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update
[Re: 471Magnum]
#1188080
03/07/12 09:14 PM
03/07/12 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203 Oregon
AndyF
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Chewing up a cam lobe is a real bummer. I lost my original 426W engine years ago that way. The lobe material went into the oil pump and then that sheared the pump drive and once oil pressure went away the rod bearings spun. You caught your issue sooner than I did! I wrote an article on the subject last year. It is in the tech archives on this board if you want to check it out. I talked to a bunch of people in the industry and tried to find all the newest parts on the market to help flat tappet cams live. I think it can be done if you use the right oil, lifters, springs, coatings, etc. http://www.moparmax.com/tech/2011/vi_8-flat-1.html
Last edited by AndyF; 03/07/12 09:20 PM.
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Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update
[Re: 471Magnum]
#1188083
03/08/12 09:22 AM
03/08/12 09:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Complicated subject!
Basically, over the last 10-15 years, there has been a "perfect storm" of conditions contributing to this widespread problem. The three main ones:
> Detroit totally stopped using flat tappet camshaft, resulting in a loss of dependable, low-cost tappet and cam-blank suppliers
> The guys who knew how to make the above "for generations" are dying off
> ZDDP levels in oils have slowly been reduced. No law against ZDDP, but it isn't good for cats, and the EPA forces automakers to give long "low emissions" warranties
The fixes? Also multi-prong:
> Use oil with enough ZDDP (EG: Mobil 1 15W50, etc.) or an additive
> Use lifters with either a ceramic-composite face, or the 0.012" laser-drilled hole in the face
> Avoid long periods of idling
> Don't go crazy with valve spring pressure. If "enough is enough", "too much" ISN'T better!
> And, most important: Assure that your new engine fires INSTANTLY (timing right, float bowls filled, shot of ether, etc.) and doesn't see under 2,500 RPM for the first 20 minutes or so.
Rick
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