Moparts
wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update
Posted By: 471Magnum
wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 02/29/12 01:47 PM
This stroker motor of mine has had its share of issues. Most recently, I've noticed some increasing tappet noise. I decide to remove the intake for inspection.
Found the #5 intake lifter to be partially digested.
This motor probably has less than 2000 miles on it. I've had the intake off several time along the way and each time inspected the lifters. This is a recent development.
Most recently, I replaced/upgraded the heads. Again, I noticed no cam or lifter wear while I had it apart. One thing I neglected to do after changing the oil this last time was to pour in the Comp Cams additive I've been using. In less that 200 miles, this is the result.
For the record, the cam is (was) a Comp Cams XE274HL. Nothing too crazy. Valve springs are beehives from IMM. Not sure of the pressures, but probably not much more than the double springs I ran on the old heads. Running iron adjustable rockers.
Right now I'm going with the theory that its an oil failure, with maybe a chinese lifter factor mixed in.
I haven't decided on my replacement plan yet. If I stick with Comp Cams, I'll probably step up a bit to a XE275HL. As far as lifters go, I'm not sure.
One thing for certain, I'm about to pay my "stupid tax".
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 01:58 PM
That sucks big time, I'm so sorry.
I would lean toward incorrect valve lash/preload.
It's so easy to get it wrong and is easy to get right when first building the motor. I do it with the intake off so I can see the lifter plunger so I can insure the proper preload at the lifter.
Good luck with your rebuild.
Posted By: Rapid340
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 02:02 PM
Sorry to hear, what oil did you use?
Also, it is a really good habit to never remove more than one lifter at a time when inspecting them or transfering to a lifter box for storage. I'm not saying you did anything wrong but I know if I am not careful all I need to do is misplace one to have issues.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 02:08 PM
I checked the pre-load a couple of times prior to this. That cam as always been a bit noisy. It's certainly possible that could be the cause. I'll definitely have the opportunity to set it with the intake off this next time.
It's also probably worth mentioning that the #5 cylinder also seems to have an oil consumption problem. The plug fouled-up with oil. I did a compression check to find that cylinder 20 psi lower than the others. That could be attributable to the reduced intake lift. Before I found the wiped lobe, I was leaning towards re-ringing that cylinder.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 02:15 PM
Get good lifters and make sure you do not preload to much. Hughes offers
Cryogenic treatment for the lifters and probably the cams too. pay me now or pay me later.
My be time to step up to a hydraulic roller.
For sure always use a zinc additive!!!
Posted By: lewtot184
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 02:46 PM
check the seat pressure. some of those beehives have a lot of seat pressure for street flat tappet cam.
Posted By: MLR426
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 03:16 PM
James,
Brad Penn or equivalent oil only with zinc and phosphur in it. If your using an additive what do you think is going on inside the engine until the additive is getting mixed in with the oil ?? It's also a gamble when adding the additive after the fact.
logan426 martin
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 03:50 PM
With it that far gone, didnt it show signs of issues long before this point???
Ive run old junkers for years that ticked, knocked and the worst lifter I ever saw was a pushed in bottom, thats ugly....
Good luck on the fix though
Its got to be bad parts these days, luck of the draw???
I say this simply because luckly ive not had this happpen ever, just a good stash of old stp and std breakin like we all do.
Im still trying to grasp the concept of metal on metal when most dont consider a cam a wear item.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 03:51 PM
I've seen, HAD, and heard too many horror stories with Comp Cams to warrant any future involvement with purchasing any of their cams....might be another problem, but IMHO I'd suspect the cam
Mike
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 05:17 PM
I ran this motor a bunch before this. Had a saga with the heads leaking through the guides that took a long time to resolve, and probably masked and distracted me from this issue. Finally installed the RHS heads to take care of that.
That being said, I inspected the lifters on several occasions prior when I had the motor torn down for the head issues. No wear was noted.
It's always have had a lot of lifter noise. Tweaked the preload in an attempt to quiet it down some to no avail. It's possible that I over did it.
I used plenty of break in lube. The Comp Cams additive was at oil changes... but not this last one.
Biggest concern now is lifter trash and potential bearing damage.
As far as what cam and lifter package goes in next, I'm not sure. It'll will likely be a similar grind as I really liked the performance. I'll probably be talking with Hughes this weekend in Indy.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 05:35 PM
Quote:
Biggest concern now is lifter trash and potential bearing damage.
There is no potential damage, it's a definite with that much worn off that lifter , I'm sure the cam looks as bad.
Metal chips on the piston skirts in the vicinity of that lobe and the oil pump will be scared because it sees unfiltered oil.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 05:40 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Biggest concern now is lifter trash and potential bearing damage.
There is no potential damage, it's a definite with that much worn off that lifter , I'm sure the cam looks as bad.
Metal chips on the piston skirts in the vicinity of that lobe and the oil pump will be scared because it sees unfiltered oil.
Yup it's gonna be neccessary to replace all bearings, maybe rings and more.
Every inch and passage of the block, crank, rods and pistons will need to be cleaned.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 06:54 PM
I'll start tearing into it further tonight. We'll see what I find when I pull a few caps.
The cam lobe is definitely damaged. I haven't turned the motor over to inspect the entire lobe, but yeah, the cam is toast, no doubt.
I'm not counting on getting lucky.
Posted By: rave_12000
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 09:19 PM
I lost a completely rebuilt 340 after 12 miles. Chalked it up to oil pump failure? Spun a main bearing and there was trash all over the motor. I would think that bearing material is softer than that of a litter. In my case all of the crank journals were scored. You might have to turn yours.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 09:58 PM
These cams are a bit noisier than other types. I wasted 2 XE285s in my 493. I also figure that it was due to my ignorance about inadequate Zinc protection. I've since learned plenty on the subject, but there is always room for improvement.
Comp now offers the "Pro Plasma" treatment. Its a sort of surface hardening that along with proper oil, should last a long time. I'm thinking of switching back to that 285 since I liked the performance ans streetability of it.
Sorry for your troubles. Broken parts are a hard lesson to learn, huh?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 02/29/12 10:18 PM
Quote:
These cams are a bit noisier than other types. I wasted 2 XE285s in my 493. I also figure that it was due to my ignorance about inadequate Zinc protection. I've since learned plenty on the subject, but there is always room for improvement.
Comp now offers the "Pro Plasma" treatment. Its a sort of surface hardening that along with proper oil, should last a long time. I'm thinking of switching back to that 285 since I liked the performance ans streetability of it.
Sorry for your troubles. Broken parts are a hard lesson to learn, huh?
is that pro plasma the same as the nitride they offer to the tune of $150 EXTRA ???
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 01:19 AM
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
I'm in the process of pulling the pan now. No obvious junk found when I drained the oil, but I didn't expect to find anything. Trying to bust the drag link from the idler arm. Got to feeling weak swinging the mini sledge. Decided I'd better take a dinner break. LOL
Posted By: bigtail
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 02:35 AM
I second the use of Hyd rollers. You would have been bucks and headaches ahead at this point. Be aware, Comp Cams had had catastruaphic failures with their roller hyd lifters. Maybe time to change to another brand. Do a google search.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 03:52 AM
Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 03:57 AM
Here's the rod bearings from a 360 with HOURS of run time , car was never driven other than up and down the driveway, lifter not nearly as bad as yours .
.jpg "7097432-360bearings002(Medium).jpg")
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 05:08 AM
Pulled the 2 and 4 main caps. Bearing halves looked pretty much like JohnRR's pic above. Maybe not quite as bad, but definitely scored.
No scoring on the crank though from what I've seen this far.
Guess the motor is coming out.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 06:24 AM
Quote:
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
I meant to write this very thing! Forgive me John, I'm starting to emulate your way of thinking!
Summit warrantied the first cam when it went bad. After the second one crapped out, I felt that I was pushing my luck so I just let it slide. I slipped back in a cam referred as THE Dinosaur.... the Mopar Performance 292/509. In the time since, Comp began offering that hardening process for their product line. I agree that a Hydraulic roller cam would be a better choice in terms of reliability, but the cost is just too hard to take! I'd have to sell a few parts or scrap a few cars to feel okay about spending $1000 for a cam swap!
Posted By: 64Post
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 06:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
I think my MM lobe solid might have been too much for the street. 
Posted By: MLR426
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 01:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
Thats correct and creates,and resonates the noise.
Johnson Hylift manufactures lifters for many companies, At Radiac Abrasive we make grinding wheels for them.
logan426
Posted By: rbstroker
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 02:25 PM
I wonder if the composite lifters available through 4secondsflat would be worth considering?
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/01/12 02:32 PM
How old it the set up? The reason I ask is there was a run of "bad" lifters going around a few years ago. Too bad you got bit, there is far too many variables to know what caused it now. Hope ya dont have too many issues when ya dig in further.
Good luck, and price a hydrailic roller, it hurts....
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/02/12 11:13 AM
Well now you got me wondering about using those 10 year old (new in box) Comp lifters and springs with a Hughes Whiplash cam...
Why cant this stuff just be simple...???
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/02/12 04:40 PM
Quote:
Well now you got me wondering about using those 10 year old (new in box) Comp lifters and springs with a Hughes Whiplash cam...
Why cant this stuff just be simple...???
10yrs old would put the lifters before the bad ones got dumped into the system , but you want to check and make sure they spin well first .
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/02/12 06:56 PM
Cam was purchased about a year ago.
Lifters were definitely spinning before the accelerated wear started. I went to extra effort cleaning out the bores and test fitting the lifters at assembly. Judging from the wear pattern, it even appears it continued to spin after the wear started. It would have wiped a lot sooner otherwise. I'm pretty sure botched preload was the culprit.
Picking the next set of lifters right off the proverbial tree. Ordering direct from Topline Hylift.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/02/12 06:59 PM
I should mention that the set of Comp Cam lifters I just received have no country of origin listed on the packaging. They're going back un-opened.
Posted By: scatpacktom
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/02/12 07:17 PM
I would measure the lifter bores
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/02/12 07:28 PM
don't be alarmed when you fire up the XE275HL cam...it's a noisy one too.
I was worried at first when I heard mine, sounded like a sewing machine! but, 4,000 street miles and it never skipped a beat.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/07/12 10:09 PM
Took the day off today to pull the motor and tear it down.
Pretty much have finished the tear down. All that is left is pulling the crank.
Removed the pistons and rods to find those journals lightly scoured. I think it will clean up with a polish though.
Bigger concern is the piston skirts and bores. Some light scuffing there. Not sure how much would be considered acceptable. I'll try to post a photo later. Hopefully they are salvageable.
Plan is to get the block and crank to the machine shop tomorrow.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/07/12 10:18 PM
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/07/12 10:28 PM
Quote:
Did you tear it apart like I did the last time I had to do that? 
__
Hopefully you swept before laying the pistons out ...
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 12:48 AM
Here is a picture of the #7 bore. Seems to be the worst of them.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 01:14 AM
Chewing up a cam lobe is a real bummer. I lost my original 426W engine years ago that way. The lobe material went into the oil pump and then that sheared the pump drive and once oil pressure went away the rod bearings spun. You caught your issue sooner than I did!
I wrote an article on the subject last year. It is in the tech archives on this board if you want to check it out. I talked to a bunch of people in the industry and tried to find all the newest parts on the market to help flat tappet cams live. I think it can be done if you use the right oil, lifters, springs, coatings, etc.
http://www.moparmax.com/tech/2011/vi_8-flat-1.html
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 01:29 AM
Quote:
Hopefully you swept before laying the pistons out ...
The carbon build-up acts as a protective coating.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 03:34 AM
sorry to hear that. My 360 wiped a cam a few years back. It ran fine for several years, and I would always use Mobile-1 in it. The cam lifter failure was right about the time all the companies changed to the "new" lower ZDDP additives (maybe 10 years ago?) The metal from the wiped cam and lifter made a mess of the oil pump, bearings and some cylinder wall scratches. I was able to have the machine shop re-hone the cylinders, and I rebuilt it with new bearings, rings, and a slightly hotter cam. I quit using Mobile-1 and only use the "Race" oil in the engine.
Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 01:22 PM
Complicated subject!
Basically, over the last 10-15 years, there has been a "perfect storm" of conditions contributing to this widespread problem. The three main ones:
> Detroit totally stopped using flat tappet camshaft, resulting in a loss of dependable, low-cost tappet and cam-blank suppliers
> The guys who knew how to make the above "for generations" are dying off
> ZDDP levels in oils have slowly been reduced. No law against ZDDP, but it isn't good for cats, and the EPA forces automakers to give long "low emissions" warranties
The fixes? Also multi-prong:
> Use oil with enough ZDDP (EG: Mobil 1 15W50, etc.) or an additive
> Use lifters with either a ceramic-composite face, or the 0.012" laser-drilled hole in the face
> Avoid long periods of idling
> Don't go crazy with valve spring pressure. If "enough is enough", "too much" ISN'T better!
> And, most important: Assure that your new engine fires INSTANTLY (timing right, float bowls filled, shot of ether, etc.) and doesn't see under 2,500 RPM for the first 20 minutes or so.
Rick
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 02:19 PM
Quote:
Hopefully you swept before laying the pistons out ...
Nope sure didn't, I figured the pistons were gonna be replaced along with either the heads or block. Turned out that the #5 cylinder wall was cracked allowing water to get in there. So the block, pistons and heads got replaced.
I bolted on some Edlebrock heads that I had for like 4 years during this rebuild.
That cylinder looks like it can be honed and I would clean up your pistons with scotchbrite pads.
Good luck with your rebuild.
My heads were not cracked but the block was. 
I reused my MP 474 cam, this is the 3rd block that the cam has been used in along with the original lifters, I've been lucky. I do run some 15 year old 15/40 Shell Rotella oil, I have like 10 gals still. 
$250.00 is what KB243 pistons cost me in 2007, really cheap if you ask me and they have held up good since 2007 when I put it togeather.
\ 
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 04:44 PM
Quote:
I do run some 15 year old 15/40 Shell Rotella oil, I have like 10 gals still.
Nice to see I am not the only one using NOS motor oil
A little known secret: MP got away from Stanadyne and switched to Johnson Hylift/Topline recently. Quality is outstanding.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/08/12 11:20 PM
Quote:
I do run some 15 year old 15/40 Shell Rotella oil, I have like 10 gals still.
I'd be a little leery of using oil this old. The oil manufactures have said motor oil does have a shelf life of around 3-to-5 years, and that's if it's stored in perfect conditions, e.g., out of any direct sun light and in a area with moderate temps and no wide temp swings.
You may want to sample it and send it off for analysis before use. At the vary least, agitate it real well before use as additive settling does occur even with brand new oil.
For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfW8W3sjbto - (Do yourself a favor and fast forward a minute into the video.)
UPDATE: I emailed Gary Rod at Shell Lubricants (SOPUS Products US) regarding motor oil shelf life and this is what he said word for word:
Quote:
"Our recommended shelf life on products that we sell is 5yrs. Therefore after that you are using it at your own risk." - Cited Email, Gary Rod, Shell Lubricants (SOPUS Products US) gary.rod@shell.com
Posted By: runner12
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/10/12 12:01 AM
Sorry to hear about your cam issue. Tear it down clean it BRAD PENN OIL A GOOD FILTER AND A FILTER MAG !!! GOOD LUCK!!!!
Posted By: NV69B7RR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/10/12 12:28 AM
What is a good oil filter, K&N ?
Posted By: Secret Chimp
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/10/12 02:43 AM
Quote:
What is a good oil filter, K&N ?
Wix or NAPA Gold (same thing)
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/10/12 03:07 AM
Quote:
What is a good oil filter, K&N ?
This oil filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRbDfhgOOgo
Posted By: runner12
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/10/12 05:19 AM
Do some homework and decide what best bang for the buck . The WIX , K&N ? Everyone likes something differnt or dont want to spend the money
that napa platinum looks good also!
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/13/12 04:08 PM
Just got the call from the machine shop.
Bores will clean up fine with a hone.
Crank needs to go 10 under. That doesn't break my heart though as that crank was on the tight end of tolerance out of the box with a bit of warp. This will straighten it out.
Time to order bearings and rings...
Posted By: 300by500
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/13/12 05:22 PM
That's it. I've heard / seen enough. My 498 will have a hydraulic roller.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/13/12 11:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I don't necessarily think it's the cam that's noisy, but the lifters that come with the kits. I'll be ordering a set of Topline Hylifts for the next cam.
It's the cam , XE have fast ramps and the valves tend to slam shut.
Think I've lost track of how many times I've heard or seen people have issues with the "state-of-the-art", computer designed, fast-rate-of-lift, if-it's-good-on-paper camshafts available today.
When talking camshafts, is this what Bob K refers to as "taming lift not exaggerating it"?
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/14/12 12:36 AM
One thing to consider, esp if you think you might be trying different cams is the SM beck style puck lifters.
I have used them on 4 of my last strokers, currently doing a build and dont seem too impressed by comps "lightweight" edm lifters at over 100 grams.
The SM solides were right at 73 grams per and really its easy to work around the lifters needs with the increased spring pressure needed.
Consider about $450 more the comps edm-s would not be the only added cost, better pushrods,springs,ect add to the cost but here again I feel used right they are bulletproof.
Ive one set going on 4 hard years and I think 4 cams and show as new other then normal lifter body wear.
And 73 grams is pretty light and I never worry about the valvetrain.
.JPG](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7117219-DSC06386[1](2).JPG "7117219-DSC06386[1](2).JPG")
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/14/12 12:52 AM
I'll be running a hydraulic cam again.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/31/12 02:12 AM
Got it all back together. I'll drop it in tomorrow and should have it running no later than Sunday.
Think I'm going to sprinkle it with holy water and say a few prayers this time around...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 03/31/12 05:05 PM
Quote:
Think I'm going to sprinkle it with holy water and say a few prayers this time around...
Posted By: rbstroker
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 06:35 PM
A lot of good info here. Is there any particular brand flat tappet cam that is more prone to lobe failure? Any that are less prone?
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 06:38 PM
Seems like Comp Cams have had more than their share of issues...
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 06:44 PM
Quote:
Seems like Comp Cams have had more than their share of issues...
I've heard of failures with other brands too... I think Comp has such a large chunk on the market that it's only natural they have a large chunk of the failures... Take a look at the issues with Hughes cams a few years back with "Team Moparts" at the Engine Masters competition...
Posted By: Dcuda69
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 06:49 PM
I lost a Comp XS280S solid after 1k mi,my buddy lost a MP .528 solid after about 10K mi.
I was using Valvoline, he was using Mobil 1
He currently has a XS280S and has been fine for a few years now, I went with a Comp street solid roller(XR280R) and it also has been fine(I like it a lot better)We both are now using Brad Penn
Almost forgot.....I know 2 other guys that lost flat tappet cams also,1 Chevy and 1 Ford...not sure about cam brands there though
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 07:02 PM
Brand has less to do with it than cam profile, spring pressures, and oil choice. I stuck a Comp Cams stick back in the motor.
I'm now convinced the last oil change I did utilizing store brand oil and forgetting the zinc additive was the culprit. Due to all the cylinder head issues I was dealing with, I had changed oil numerous times in the past year. Got tired of putting in the expensive oil. I cheaped out one time. That's all it took. With the aggressive Comp Cams XE lobe profile, it didn't take long. Like the subject says: expensive lesson.
There have been NUMEROUS articles on cam failures over the last several years. Really not necessary to rehash it here.
I've got Comp Cams break-in oil in the motor now. I'll probably use the Brad Penn Grade 1 going forward.
Posted By: FASTBACK340
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 07:08 PM
I wiped out a Comp Cam too.... about 3 yrs. ago. Not only did my bearings look exactly the same, but the oil pump rotors were no better. I had to strip it down, tank it, and manually clean the passages. THEN proceed with machining...parts....money....time.... and tank it again and manually clean it....
And yes, my cam is a ticker too. Noisy SOB.... But ZDDP goes in every oil change. Best piece of mind.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 08:21 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Seems like Comp Cams have had more than their share of issues...
Take a look at the issues with [censored] cams a few years back with "Team Moparts" at the Engine Masters competition...
That wasn't the cams fault , it was the block and lifter geometry.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 08:30 PM
Quote:
I wiped out a Comp Cam too.... about 3 yrs. ago. Not only did my bearings look exactly the same, but the oil pump rotors were no better. I had to strip it down, tank it, and manually clean the passages. THEN proceed with machining...parts....money....time.... and tank it again and manually clean it....
And yes, my cam is a ticker too. Noisy SOB.... But ZDDP goes in every oil change. Best piece of mind.
Oil pump looked bad because unfiltered oil passes thru the pump before passing thru the filter.
Last build I had my hands in had a comp XE, it lasted 7 minutes into the break in , something didn't sound right and we stopped , good thing.
Put a Comp back in it but this time it was a custom grind speced by Dwayne Porter and paid the extra to have it nitrided , it was noisy on the breakin , checked it and everything looked good. I spent extra time adjusting the preload on every lifter and the last time I heard it run it was no where near as noisey as it was.
As someone else said , Comp has a large share of the market so it's only natural to have more failures .
If I buy any more Comp flat tappet cams they will be a custom, they are ground in house, and it will be nitrided .
Posted By: jbc426
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 08:42 PM
Quote:
What is a good oil filter, K&N ?
I use Jomar 100% no bypass flters in my hotrod and cut them open and inspect the catchings.
http://www.jomarperformance.com/pro-filter.php
They are worth looking at for "race/street" motors, but not in long drain interval, high-milage street cars.
I use Napa Golds in those.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 03/31/12 09:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Seems like Comp Cams have had more than their share of issues...
Take a look at the issues with [censored] cams a few years back with "Team Moparts" at the Engine Masters competition...
That wasn't the cams fault , it was the block and lifter geometry.
Exactly, and how many 40-year-old production blocks have lifter geometry issues? From what I've been told, MANY.
Wonder if Comp takes this into account with their CAD program?
Posted By: MarkZ
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/01/12 12:33 AM
Back in 2006 I spun a lobe on a Crane with about 11,000 miles on the motor. Pretty much the same results as seen here and it required a total rebuild. For my 408 build I picked up a '91 360 roller block. No more flat tappet for me.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 02:38 AM
After several days delay due to a dead battery and other unrelated issues, I finally had the chance to fire the motor tonight.
Once I got the timing close, it fired right off. Cam break-in was uneventful. About halfway through the alternator started howling, due to a bad bearing I'm guessing. No big deal but it was definitely startling.
The skies opened up during the break-in soaking the roads, so unfortunately there was no test drive tonight.
Need to hunt down a single groove pulley alternator now...
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 03:59 AM
Jeeze, guys! You got me sweating bullets now
I am in the process of rebuilding a 318 with a mild cam upgrade. Guess what brand I bought??
I got Comp's 20-221-3, and I figured I go the whole brand loyal route and ordered Summits kit; cam, lifters, springs, keepers etc. My machinist told me about the importance of good oil and additives and such and recommended a few brands. This is a near stock rebuild but my first with a cam upgrade. Wish me luck
Scott
Posted By: astjp2
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 05:14 AM
Its not the cams, its the additives...Tim
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 06:47 AM
I've got 2826 miles on my 416 stroker. Comp XE274-solid. Using the standard Comp solid lifters. No Issues. Edelbrock heads have standard Edelbrock valve springs. I have the Comp Magnum roller rocker that come bronze bushed.
Broke in motor using the Comp cam lube. Never used it since. 1st two oil changes used 15-w40 Rotella and Justice Brothers Engine Treatment (ET/33P) to replace the Zinc. Had plenty of oil pressure and that 15-w40 is sort of noisy so I now run Castrol GTX 10-w30 from Walmart, again with JB Engine Treatment (ET/33P).
No issues.
I've run the car at two all day road course track events, one autocross, and cruise RPM between 3600-3800. Car will see high rpm down long straight all the way to 6,000 rpm.
I took the car tonight to the grocery store 4 miles and back. Shifted at 5,000 only once
. It's my only running car I own (have another vehicle provided by/for work). So it gets short trips also.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 11:39 AM
BTW... About 5/8 turn lifter preload this time. No cam noise.
I wouldn't have thought this cam would run quieter (same duration, more lift). Maybe it was the lifters.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 12:24 PM
Good job getting it back togeather!!
Posted By: MoparJ
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/05/12 08:45 PM
I have about 31k on my .060 over 318 since I built it about 3 yrs ago. Running an XE268H with the supplied Comp lifters and springs. Its a noisy SOB, especially when cold and at engine speeds of 2300-2700 rpm, but so far, so good. Used Rotella 15w-40 at break in, with Comp Cams break in lube and actually had the distributor gear off a bit, so it didnt start right away. Had one lifter collapse at 7000 miles, so I replaced it with a stock replacement type. Ok since then, but one on the left bank has bled down to the point where it wouldnt pump up without some coaxing a few times (used some Marvel Mystery oil directly into valve cover while running to pump it up). I will probably need to go in and replace all of the crappy Comp lifters as piece of mind before too long.
Runs great, excellent power band and decent low end torque. Still runs high 13s with 3.23s. Using 15w40 Chevron Delo oil, since my dad gets it for free, along with a bottle of STP 4 cyl oil treatment for added zinc. Oil changes are done every 1500-2000 miles with a Wix oil filter.
Posted By: Slipknot440
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson - 04/06/12 03:09 PM
i feel your pain. my cam was crap after 1000 miles in my hemi and left me a slew of issues to have fixed because of it
Posted By: Craig
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/06/12 04:47 PM
471Magnum, sounds like its fixed, good for you. But I'm wondering, were the valve guides OK, not sticking? The problem occurred after you changed heads, and you said there was an oil use problem in that cyl, and you thought you had bad preload. I'm thinking the problem may have started from a bad guide in the new head, hopefully that's not still an issue...
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/06/12 07:27 PM
I didn't disassemble the heads. I put my trust in IMM's quality.
I don't think it was a preload issue. The adjuster on that rocker was set no different than any of the others. That said, they all might have been too tight and that one was just first to go. Or it may have been my choice of oil.
Oil consumption was probably due to the intake lobe being wiped. There was pretty much no valve lift remaining. Without the valve opening, it was pulling a bunch of vacuum in that cylinder and sucking oil past the rings. That's one theory anyway. Similar thing happened when I lost an intake rocker on a 440 several year ago.
This cam is much quieter than I ever recall the other being. It's a very similar grind to the old one (XE274H vs XE275HL), albeit with more lift. I expected more noise if anything. Makes me wonder if there may have been an issue from day one with the old set up that I never noticed.
Posted By: rbstroker
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/06/12 08:58 PM
It seems like everyone, including me, has lost a flat tappet at one time or another. I've asked this question before but never gotten a reply; has anybody tried the composite lifters available through 4secondsflat?
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Composite%20lifters.htm
Posted By: Dadrules
Re: wiped a lobe... expensive lesson...update - 04/07/12 12:28 AM
i've got a set on my MOPAR SB but haven't run it yet because i'm spending all my free time with representatives of the medical fields... i hope to have it running in a month or so and will definitely post a sound file if nothing else.