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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: STROKIE]
#1168804
02/01/12 12:27 AM
02/01/12 12:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,876
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,876
S.E. Michigan
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I think it's worth it, even if it has some imperfections.
Mine is homemade, and I'm not the best welder/fabricator in the world, but am not the worst either(!). I think it came out pretty nice and the car runs well with it. I did study how others approach it quite a bit before getting started. The sound is an aquired taste to some but I kind of dig it.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: Ovalracer68]
#1168807
02/01/12 03:05 AM
02/01/12 03:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,398
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,398
Highland, MI.
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I was dealing with 2 Ford engineers about 12 years ago that dedicated a year to research exhaust flow & performance, & they extensively studied X vs. H-pipes, vs no crossover. All dual exhaust stuff on V-8's. They concluded there was maybe 0-5 HP to be gained by using an X-pipe. They also concluded the same with H-pipes. In other words, use one vs. the other for SOUND preferences or fit. No, there is not 10-15 HP to be gained just by installing an X-pipe. Get the best out of your performance by running the optimum sized pipes, & good flowing mufflers. If you have everything figured out right & have the right components & system design, you probably won't see any improvement with cutouts or open headers.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1168808
02/01/12 05:55 AM
02/01/12 05:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
phantomx
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
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^^That's odd, doesn't Ford have a cut and clamp X pipe available for the 05-up mustangs that they claim to be good for 7hp?
Travis..
70 GTX project, orig 440-4, 4 spd, track pack, FC7, stripper/street racer special.
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1168810
02/01/12 12:44 PM
02/01/12 12:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
I was dealing with 2 Ford engineers about 12 years ago that dedicated a year to research exhaust flow & performance, & they extensively studied X vs. H-pipes, vs no crossover. All dual exhaust stuff on V-8's. They concluded there was maybe 0-5 HP to be gained by using an X-pipe. They also concluded the same with H-pipes. In other words, use one vs. the other for SOUND preferences or fit. No, there is not 10-15 HP to be gained just by installing an X-pipe. Get the best out of your performance by running the optimum sized pipes, & good flowing mufflers. If you have everything figured out right & have the right components & system design, you probably won't see any improvement with cutouts or open headers.
Pretty much exactly what I would expect. Nothing wrong with the X pipe, but don't expect miracles and there are better places to spend the money on your exhaust system. I decided on an H pipe setup with my 2.5" mandrel bent TTI, ultraflow system for a look closer to stock....I very much doubt I gave up much (if anything) by that decision.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: NOrrTH]
#1168812
02/01/12 11:33 PM
02/01/12 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
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I'm not sure what people are talking about when they mention such a different sound, like it sounds like a newer v8 or sounds like its doing more RPMs than it's doing. I have an xpipe on my car, with headers and turndowns, so I think it's a pretty bare-bones system and should be a good representation of pure X pipe sound without tailpipes etc. which also alter the sound. Here is a video I made a few years back when switching from one set of mufflers to another. I do notice it's a tad quieter than a similar H pipe setup, but do not notice anything extreme or wild about the sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vc2zqjSTjsIf anyone has a H pipe vs. X pipe sound test with turndowns or just mufflers, that would answer some questions about the different sound.
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: Exit1965]
#1168814
02/02/12 12:45 AM
02/02/12 12:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
phantomx
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
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You can hear that the x-pipe has a higher pitch. It is VERY noticeable if you've ever watched a vintage trans am race. The Mustangs that run are about half and half X pipe and not. The X-pipe cars have a high pitched race car sound and the non X-pipe cars, well they just sound like an old Ford  For the record, I think the small block Fords usually sound terrible. Travis..
70 GTX project, orig 440-4, 4 spd, track pack, FC7, stripper/street racer special.
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: STROKIE]
#1168815
02/02/12 08:09 PM
02/02/12 08:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
NOrrTH
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
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Quote:
I found this site ...
Can be a good info there.
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/exhaust.html 
Very conclusive evidence IF that info is true. However, it looks like the info came from the exhaust manufacturers.
The Youtube links with the X-pipes defintely dont sound any quieter, in fact they're much "nastier", so thats contradictory evidence sitting behind the computer here 
Also, if I read that report correctly, the ideal set up would be a 3" entry, 2.5" exit, X pipe.
"2.5" tail pipes are the maximum diameter for minimal power loss"
Last edited by NOrrTH; 02/02/12 08:33 PM.
'71 GTX N96 auto 3:55
'74 Challenger 440+6 4spd 4:10
'71 Duster 340 auto 4:10
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1168817
02/03/12 04:02 PM
02/03/12 04:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 333
Forest Lake, Minnesota
superbeejim
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 333
Forest Lake, Minnesota
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Well, it sounds like I am the only one that has tried all 3 setups. 3 or 4 years ago, I made up a x, a h, and straight pipes and put them on my lift off Super-bee with full duel exhaust and factory manifolds. Its a street car in the high 11s. I made up all 3 setups with 3 bolt header flanges, so I could drop one setup and install the other in less than 10 minutes. The idea was that lots of people try one setup at the track and the next week they try another setup and the weather and track conditions were all different, so they arent comparing apples to apples. I took the car to Englishtown track and ran it with all 3 setups. I make 3 runs with each setup and changed each setup all within a hour and the results were that there was NO difference. All 9 runs were within a tenth of each other and other than a slight difference in sound, on a good street car, it just a matter of what you like best. In the end, I left the H on only because the engineers thought it was the best for their car. Jim
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: superbeejim]
#1168818
02/03/12 04:10 PM
02/03/12 04:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
Well, it sounds like I am the only one that has tried all 3 setups. 3 or 4 years ago, I made up a x, a h, and straight pipes and put them on my lift off Super-bee with full duel exhaust and factory manifolds. Its a street car in the high 11s. I made up all 3 setups with 3 bolt header flanges, so I could drop one setup and install the other in less than 10 minutes. The idea was that lots of people try one setup at the track and the next week they try another setup and the weather and track conditions were all different, so they arent comparing apples to apples. I took the car to Englishtown track and ran it with all 3 setups. I make 3 runs with each setup and changed each setup all within a hour and the results were that there was NO difference. All 9 runs were within a tenth of each other and other than a slight difference in sound, on a good street car, it just a matter of what you like best. In the end, I left the H on only because the engineers thought it was the best for their car. Jim
I could have swore I read about a F.A.S.T. racer doing this too, a few years back. If I recall correctly he had the same results as you did.
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: superbeejim]
#1168820
02/03/12 04:56 PM
02/03/12 04:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Well, it sounds like I am the only one that has tried all 3 setups. 3 or 4 years ago, I made up a x, a h, and straight pipes and put them on my lift off Super-bee with full duel exhaust and factory manifolds. Its a street car in the high 11s. I made up all 3 setups with 3 bolt header flanges, so I could drop one setup and install the other in less than 10 minutes. The idea was that lots of people try one setup at the track and the next week they try another setup and the weather and track conditions were all different, so they arent comparing apples to apples. I took the car to Englishtown track and ran it with all 3 setups. I make 3 runs with each setup and changed each setup all within a hour and the results were that there was NO difference. All 9 runs were within a tenth of each other and other than a slight difference in sound, on a good street car, it just a matter of what you like best. In the end, I left the H on only because the engineers thought it was the best for their car. Jim
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil?
[Re: superbeejim]
#1168821
02/03/12 05:00 PM
02/03/12 05:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
That probably was me. It was at a FAST, PureStock race they had in Englishtown in the fall.
Ah-ha!  It's good to see real world results, so thanks, very interesting info.
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Here is a clip of mine and it is a 3" system. Ron
