X pipe worth it or snake oil?

After running TTI 1 5/8"-1 3/4" step headers for a year or two with just collectors, I installed their 3" X-pipes ending with Dynomax Ultraflows at the rear housing. Overall, it added about 70 lbs. But after getting the overall weight back down and a little carb rejetting from the best I was able to get before, the car was at least .05 faster, possibly closer to .10. So it all stayed on despite being inconvenient for trans or center section swaps. I may eventually go to the Dynomax bullet style to save a little weight and gain a little room around the rear end yoke. (That will allow me to use more easily removable weight if I need move to the next lighter class.)

I didn't do back-to-backs afterwards, but I felt that the mufflers didn't hurt at all and that the X-pipe definitely helped. I can't help but think that each side actually helps scavenging from the other side through the "X" with the alternating pulses. (Just speculating why it helps. I guess basically what topside said.) I installed them as close as I could to the headers with the "X" directly under the very end of my 904 trans.

It works for Nascar! But each combo will have it's own results and may require a little jet tuning for best results.

Posted By: bigtail

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 01/31/12 05:09 AM

We! Don't, "need" no... 'Punctiation!. Just messing with you Rapid Robert! I read your posts just fine. (maybe an NE thing?) Most studies have shown an improvement, wether utilizing x or h pipes over a straight dual exhaust. I don't have any data to back that up. Just scads of articles I read about the subject. Maybe contact TTI or other exhaust specialists, and see what they have to say?

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 01/31/12 01:15 PM

It should also be said that all X-pipe designs are not created equal. Most are just jump on the trend/copycat designs, and some are truly awful. Even slight differences in X-over location, X-over size, angles, they all make a difference. This doesn't even get into some manufacturers lazy workmanship.

There was a good thread on this at Speedtalk a while back, and i think the general consensus is that it matters which one you get, where it is put in the system, and how well the rest ov your system is designed and built. The results CAN be good, and 12-15HP doesn't seem out ov reach, but do it wrong, or buy the wrong brand, and you'll quickly negate any benefit or possibly end up with less power.

But... done right or wrong, they sound damn cool, though some people dont like to lose that low old-school rumble. They quiet the system up, which again, some like and others dont.

My Charger picked up serious power going from no X-over 3" press-bend to an X-pipe 3" mandrel. The brand i used was a bad one and i would never use it again. It was cheap, and i got what i paid for. Sounded really mean, even with the junk 440.

My girl's 96GT Mustang went from the stock 2 1/2" H-pipe to a Dr. Gas 2 1/2" X-pipe and the difference was immediate, even going from Borla dumps (on the stock H) to a full Spintech cat-back (on the X). The sounds was/is absolutely glorious... even on a stock 215HP 4.6L.

I highly recommend Dr. Gas. You'll pay 3 times as much as Dynomax... but again, you get what you pay for.

Posted By: gch

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 01/31/12 03:58 PM

Dr.Gas on my polara which I transferred from my charger years ago.Sounds awesome with the long case super turbo mufflers.

Posted By: 383man

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 01/31/12 09:00 PM

I run the X-pipe with Ultra-Flows out to the rear bumper. I race it that way thru the pipes also. I have never uncapped it to see if it makes a difference but I am pleased with how it sounds and the performance. At 55 years old with a bad back and knees I really dont want to crawl under the car at the track to uncap headers anyway.

Here is a clip of mine and it is a 3" system. Ron

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIM2HLaOI4&feature=related

Posted By: STROKIE

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 12:30 AM

I found this site ...
Can be a good info there.
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/exhaust.html

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 04:27 AM

I think it's worth it, even if it has some imperfections.

Mine is homemade, and I'm not the best welder/fabricator in the world, but am not the worst either(!). I think it came out pretty nice and the car runs well with it. I did study how others approach it quite a bit before getting started. The sound is an aquired taste to some but I kind of dig it.

Posted By: hemi4speed

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 05:07 AM

I have a X-pipe on my 410 RyanJ stroker, I unhooked it and ran open headers and didnt go any faster or lower my et..Love my X-pipe and its sound.

Attached picture 7047405-dusterstrip.jpg

Attached picture 7047405-dusterstrip.jpg

Posted By: Ovalracer68

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 05:24 AM

tti headers with 3" tti x pipe system
its not that quiet, but i like it
http://youtu.be/_x07aylqvlI

Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 07:05 AM

I was dealing with 2 Ford engineers about 12 years ago that dedicated a year to research exhaust flow & performance, & they extensively studied X vs. H-pipes, vs no crossover. All dual exhaust stuff on V-8's. They concluded there was maybe 0-5 HP to be gained by using an X-pipe. They also concluded the same with H-pipes. In other words, use one vs. the other for SOUND preferences or fit. No, there is not 10-15 HP to be gained just by installing an X-pipe. Get the best out of your performance by running the optimum sized pipes, & good flowing mufflers. If you have everything figured out right & have the right components & system design, you probably won't see any improvement with cutouts or open headers.

Posted By: phantomx

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 09:55 AM

^^That's odd, doesn't Ford have a cut and clamp X pipe available for the 05-up mustangs that they claim to be good for 7hp?
Travis..

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 10:06 AM

I don't like the X-pipe because of it's sound. It makes an old v8 sound smoother and more like a modern v8, especially when at higher rpms. That's not what I want my old v8 to sound like.

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 04:44 PM

Quote:

I was dealing with 2 Ford engineers about 12 years ago that dedicated a year to research exhaust flow & performance, & they extensively studied X vs. H-pipes, vs no crossover. All dual exhaust stuff on V-8's. They concluded there was maybe 0-5 HP to be gained by using an X-pipe. They also concluded the same with H-pipes. In other words, use one vs. the other for SOUND preferences or fit. No, there is not 10-15 HP to be gained just by installing an X-pipe. Get the best out of your performance by running the optimum sized pipes, & good flowing mufflers. If you have everything figured out right & have the right components & system design, you probably won't see any improvement with cutouts or open headers.

Pretty much exactly what I would expect. Nothing wrong with the X pipe, but don't expect miracles and there are better places to spend the money on your exhaust system. I decided on an H pipe setup with my 2.5" mandrel bent TTI, ultraflow system for a look closer to stock....I very much doubt I gave up much (if anything) by that decision.

Dave

Posted By: NOrrTH

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/01/12 07:20 PM

Quote:

tti headers with 3" tti x pipe system
its not that quiet, but i like it
http://youtu.be/_x07aylqvlI

OMG that sounds awesome! SHAAAAWING!!!

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/02/12 03:33 AM

I'm not sure what people are talking about when they mention such a different sound, like it sounds like a newer v8 or sounds like its doing more RPMs than it's doing.

I have an xpipe on my car, with headers and turndowns, so I think it's a pretty bare-bones system and should be a good representation of pure X pipe sound without tailpipes etc. which also alter the sound.

Here is a video I made a few years back when switching from one set of mufflers to another. I do notice it's a tad quieter than a similar H pipe setup, but do not notice anything extreme or wild about the sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vc2zqjSTjs

If anyone has a H pipe vs. X pipe sound test with turndowns or just mufflers, that would answer some questions about the different sound.

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/02/12 03:39 AM

Found a decent comparison video (Ford). I can hear the difference here... but I'm glad my Dart sounds nothing like either of them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvBjesPpNT0

Posted By: phantomx

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/02/12 04:45 AM

You can hear that the x-pipe has a higher pitch. It is VERY noticeable if you've ever watched a vintage trans am race. The Mustangs that run are about half and half X pipe and not. The X-pipe cars have a high pitched race car sound and the non X-pipe cars, well they just sound like an old Ford

For the record, I think the small block Fords usually sound terrible.
Travis..

Posted By: NOrrTH

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 12:09 AM

Quote:

I found this site ...
Can be a good info there.
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/exhaust.html

Very conclusive evidence IF that info is true. However, it looks like the info came from the exhaust manufacturers.

The Youtube links with the X-pipes defintely dont sound any quieter, in fact they're much "nastier", so thats contradictory evidence sitting behind the computer here

Also, if I read that report correctly, the ideal set up would be a 3" entry, 2.5" exit, X pipe.

"2.5" tail pipes are the maximum diameter for minimal power loss"

Posted By: dogdays

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 05:57 PM

You didn't read thoroughly. The data was gained experimentally by the authors. Testing of the different mufflers in the first page was done on their LeMans wagon using only one muffler. This amplified the effects of backpressure.

The test data on the X-pipe, a Dr. Gas version, seems to show that the torque curve was beefed up under the max torque point. This I infer from the improved 60-ft times.

Maximum horsepower always occurs either at or, mostly, past the torque peak. So, maximum horsepower could be the same but the x-pipe would leave the line harder. Judging an exhaust system by maximum horsepower gains may be very misleading.

R.

Posted By: superbeejim

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 08:02 PM

Well, it sounds like I am the only one that has tried all 3 setups. 3 or 4 years ago, I made up a x, a h, and straight pipes and put them on my lift off Super-bee with full duel exhaust and factory manifolds. Its a street car in the high 11s. I made up all 3 setups with 3 bolt header flanges, so I could drop one setup and install the other in less than 10 minutes. The idea was that lots of people try one setup at the track and the next week they try another setup and the weather and track conditions were all different, so they arent comparing apples to apples. I took the car to Englishtown track and ran it with all 3 setups. I make 3 runs with each setup and changed each setup all within a hour and the results were that there was NO difference. All 9 runs were within a tenth of each other and other than a slight difference in sound, on a good street car, it just a matter of what you like best. In the end, I left the H on only because the engineers thought it was the best for their car. Jim

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 08:10 PM

Quote:

Well, it sounds like I am the only one that has tried all 3 setups. 3 or 4 years ago, I made up a x, a h, and straight pipes and put them on my lift off Super-bee with full duel exhaust and factory manifolds. Its a street car in the high 11s. I made up all 3 setups with 3 bolt header flanges, so I could drop one setup and install the other in less than 10 minutes. The idea was that lots of people try one setup at the track and the next week they try another setup and the weather and track conditions were all different, so they arent comparing apples to apples. I took the car to Englishtown track and ran it with all 3 setups. I make 3 runs with each setup and changed each setup all within a hour and the results were that there was NO difference. All 9 runs were within a tenth of each other and other than a slight difference in sound, on a good street car, it just a matter of what you like best. In the end, I left the H on only because the engineers thought it was the best for their car. Jim

I could have swore I read about a F.A.S.T. racer doing this too, a few years back. If I recall correctly he had the same results as you did.

Posted By: superbeejim

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 08:48 PM

That probably was me. It was at a FAST, PureStock race they had in Englishtown in the fall.

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 08:56 PM

Quote:

Well, it sounds like I am the only one that has tried all 3 setups. 3 or 4 years ago, I made up a x, a h, and straight pipes and put them on my lift off Super-bee with full duel exhaust and factory manifolds. Its a street car in the high 11s. I made up all 3 setups with 3 bolt header flanges, so I could drop one setup and install the other in less than 10 minutes. The idea was that lots of people try one setup at the track and the next week they try another setup and the weather and track conditions were all different, so they arent comparing apples to apples. I took the car to Englishtown track and ran it with all 3 setups. I make 3 runs with each setup and changed each setup all within a hour and the results were that there was NO difference. All 9 runs were within a tenth of each other and other than a slight difference in sound, on a good street car, it just a matter of what you like best. In the end, I left the H on only because the engineers thought it was the best for their car. Jim

Dave

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 09:00 PM

Quote:

That probably was me. It was at a FAST, PureStock race they had in Englishtown in the fall.

Ah-ha!

It's good to see real world results, so thanks, very interesting info.

Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 09:13 PM

I have one on my 70 Charger, 3-1/2" that I made myself along with the entire 3-1/2" exhaust to the mufflers then reduced down to 3" up over the axle thru the stock tips with the reducer cut off. I can't tell you if it makes any more power or not but I always get compliments on how good my car sounds & looks mostly stock.

Posted By: Diplomat360

Re: X pipe worth it or snake oil? - 02/03/12 10:16 PM

Here is the X-pipe install in my Diplomat coupe:

...and here are a couple video links:

1) www.youtube.com/watch?v=twmbex6HbZ4
2) www.youtube.com/watch?v=a85uxkBDo04

Car is still in an un-finished project state, so no real feedback on the high-RPM, under-load street manners...but I like the sound so far.

X pipe worth it or snake oil?