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Well said. I like that.

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Some people need and you can only hope they smarten up.

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Do we need the internet?

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There you go.......that's just another tool......and you've got to figure out what's good info.....and what's bad info, for yourself.....

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OK any real world bracket racing info with the wide band? I could care less about drive ability

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no bracket racing info from anyone

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thats good, but kind of speed related. I am more interested in making one more consistent using the wide band. down here you almost have to run one lean to survive the daylight to dark scenario.

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OK......I'm going to TRY to explain this to you AGAIN.....but in a different way so MAYBE you'll understand.....

Do you absolutely NEED a timing light??? NO, because you could just time it by ear and then slowly put timing into your motor a small turn at time until the trap speed stops picking up.........

Do you absolutely NEED a tire gauge??? NO, because you could just put air in the tires until they look about the same and then do some burnouts on dry pavement to figure out if you need more or less pressure in each tire........

Do you absolutely NEED an oil pressure gauge??? NO, because you could just run it with an idiot light, or no gauge at all......and if it spins a bearing or kicks a rod out, then you'll know it had an oil pressure problem....

Do you absolutely NEED an amp gauge or volt gauge??? NO, because you could know it's not charging by seeing that the headlights aren't as bright as they should be, or the battery is too low to crank the motor over.....

Do you absolutely NEED an angle finder to set pinion angle??? NO, you could just eyeball it and move it if it vibrates on deceleration or put more angle in it if you need more traction.....

Do you absolutely NEED a water temperature gauge??? NO, because you could just feel your cylinder heads by hand before you went up to make a lap......and as long as it's not puking water, odds are it's not runnnig hot......

Do you absolutely NEED a tachometer and/or shift light??? NO, because you could do EXACTLY like I do my 10 second 4-speed GTS and shift it by ear/feel........

AND do you absolutely NEED an O2 sensor??? NO, because you could do as most people do it........just set your floats.....set the idle mixture and run it......if it bogs, go to a bigger squirter and/or a bigger accelerator pump.......and if you're really feeling froggy, you can even change the jetting like very few actually do to get the most trap speed.........

The thing is, all EIGHT of those TOOLS are NOT needed......and they're all JUST tools........NONE of them tell you ANYTHING you HAVE to have.......

A timing light DOES NOT tell you how much timing you need........

A tire pressure gauge DOES NOT tell you how much tire pressure you need......

An oil pressure gauge DOES NOT tell you how much oil pressure you need.......

An amp gauge or volt meter DOES NOT tell you how much juice you need........

An angle finder DOES NOT tell you what angle the pinion needs to be......

A water temperature gauge DOES NOT tell you what you should run your water temperature at......

A tachometer and/or shift light DOES NOT tell you where you need to shift at.........

and an O2 sensor DOES NOT tell you what A/F ratio your motor needs to run at........and it can't tell you if you have an intake manifold with HORRIBLE air/fuel distribution, unless you put one in each header tube.........

Do you see the pattern here??

What do they ALL have in common?? They take a LOT of guess work out of this hobby and help you get to where you want to be a LOT faster.......

IMHO, EVERYONE that wants their car to run as good and consistant as possible NEEDS EVERY single one of those tools.......

BUT, you don't HAVE to have ANY of them.......

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WOW......DAMN, Nothing like breaking it down to the "old skool" stubborn guys that are stuck in their ways. I couldn`t break it down or top that explination if I had to.........

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all of that is well said.
o2 can get you there in a lot less weekends but
you need to know where you want to be at and that
my friend is up to you messing with things and
using the o2 sensor to keep it there.

some run down the track in the lower 13s afr

some run down the track in the mid 12s afr

when you are close on my car changing it small
does not make much of a difference worth the messing around.

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Exactly........just like moving the timing 1 or 2 degrees, or changing the tire pressure a 1/2LB, or changing starting line water temp. 5 degrees either way, or raising or lowering the oil pressure 5PSI, or any of the other things mentioned.....doesn't really effect your ET very much......

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Tony....I have seen guys use them in bracket racing. I do not have one but I think it would be a great tool to own!

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no kidding be nice to hear what hey did to improve don't you think?

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well gee thanks Wayne for breaking that down so I could understand it. looks like you really haven't applied to racing I was looking for before and after numbers that showed how using the wide band made a car more consistent.and what kind of numbers to look for.to much to ask for?

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I can't tell you that, but I can probably get you in the ball park.........that's what you use the tool for.........I can't tell you how much tire pressure to run......I can only guess by knowing your wheel width and tire width, but you still need to lay some black marks on the pavement and let me analyze those first......and I can't tell you how much timing to run.....I can guess and get you close, but you're going to have to figure it out on your own, WHILE using the appropriate tools......

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Tony....I have seen guys use them in bracket racing. I do not have one but I think it would be a great tool to own!

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no kidding be nice to hear what hey did to improve don't you think?

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thats why I was asking Wayne, thought maybe he had done that.but how dare someone to ask a race question

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OK.......How about instead of us giving you back to back results of how an O2 sensor makes our cars more consistant for bracket racing, YOU give us back to back results of how your car is MUCH more consistant while using a timing light, a tire pressure gauge, an oil pressure gauge, a volt meter, an angle finder, a water temperature gauge, and a tachometer......because I KNOW you use ALL those tools......

What you're asking is JUST as silly.....

It's EXACTLY the same!!!!

and don't even tell me a tach makes your car more consistant.....I've run EXACTLY 10.66 @ 127 at Tulsa, Oklahoma City and Columbus, Ohio with my stick car and it has NO tach and NO shift light......

I don't know what else to say......If you don't want to use a timing light, a tire pressure gauge, an oil pressure gauge, a volt meter, an angle finder, a water temperature gauge, or a tach, that's FINE .......it's up to you ......I'm not forcing you to use any of them.......

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I told Tony about my experience helping a friend out with one of the o2 sensors and the improvements the car made in consistency. Sometimes engines just seem to run better and more consistent when they aren't dragging from the bloated high 10 a/f's when on footbrake to 12's at WOT/upper rpm.

You're like clockwork crapping in threads like this about how it applies to bracket racing. I can ALWAYS count on you to dive in head first.

Go back and search the other threads you've asked the same question, you'll find my post about it.

Have a good one.

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you did? if you did I don't recall it.I tell you what you can count on, well maybe not on this site I was hoping Wayne had done it and would share where he found problems and how thy related to being consistent.also do I have to tell you what you can dive in?

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I told Tony about my experience helping a friend out with one of the o2 sensors and the improvements the car made in consistency. Sometimes engines just seem to run better and more consistent when they aren't dragging from the bloated high 10 a/f's when on footbrake to 12's at WOT/upper rpm.

You're like clockwork crapping in threads like this about how it applies to bracket racing. I can ALWAYS count on you to dive in head first.

Go back and search the other threads you've asked the same question, you'll find my post about it.

Have a good one.

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you did? if you did I don't recall it.I tell you what you can count on, well maybe not on this site I was hoping Wayne had done it and would share where he found problems and how thy related to being consistent.also do I have to tell you what you can dive in?

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I ain't diving into your pool... the cesspool...


Yes I did! Some people use an O2 with good results, others don't know what to do with it. Like many tools in any toolbox.

I'm sure the rings on my friends ride appreciated the better A/F's when staging and cruising around the pits. About the only time they weren't getting killed was at idle and full throttle once past the fat launch. He was seriously washing the things down. Weather condition played havoc with the 60's on the thing, especially when it was very cold in the morning and got real hot during the day. The car was not a .01 package deal but did get more consistent and picked up 60's.

Some guys I think need an O2 sensor installed in their head because they appear to lack oxygen to their brain.

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Some guys I think need an O2 sensor installed in their head because they appear to lack oxygen to their brain.

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Ouch......That left a mark..........

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I told Tony about my experience helping a friend out with one of the o2 sensors and the improvements the car made in consistency. Sometimes engines just seem to run better and more consistent when they aren't dragging from the bloated high 10 a/f's when on footbrake to 12's at WOT/upper rpm.

You're like clockwork crapping in threads like this about how it applies to bracket racing. I can ALWAYS count on you to dive in head first.

Go back and search the other threads you've asked the same question, you'll find my post about it.

Have a good one.

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you did? if you did I don't recall it.I tell you what you can count on, well maybe not on this site I was hoping Wayne had done it and would share where he found problems and how thy related to being consistent.also do I have to tell you what you can dive in?

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I ain't diving into your pool... the cesspool...


Yes I did! Some people use an O2 with good results, others don't know what to do with it. Like many tools in any toolbox.

I'm sure the rings on my friends ride appreciated the better A/F's when staging and cruising around the pits. About the only time they weren't getting killed was at idle and full throttle once past the fat launch. He was seriously washing the things down. Weather condition played havoc with the 60's on the thing, especially when it was very cold in the morning and got real hot during the day. The car was not a .01 package deal but did get more consistent and picked up 60's.

Some guys I think need an O2 sensor installed in their head because they appear to lack oxygen to their brain.

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quick did you see my post in the beginning of this with a log file from my wego3 afr /datalogger?
that scoop issue with the float bowls would of been hhard to find jetting for wide open and pulling a plug at the end of the track.

my car went from a 10.20 to craking the block running a 10.24 after a season of tuneing with the wego and timing.
that pass should of been atleast 10.13 had the block not split. so there is a tenth easy.

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I think the wide band is a great tool.I plan on getting one some day.