Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: quick77rt ]
#1147831
01/01/12 12:19 AM
01/01/12 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Just as the title states if one was looking to get a mopar into a road race stance or autocross what do some consider a min start for a entry level car???
Any info would be very helpful 
If it is some class racing. Look the rules and go to an event FIRST.
-Wide tires in front. Preferably size tires in rear so you can rotate. You will be wearing outer edge of front tire much faster than rears. Even a 225/60/15 will do as a minimum.
-1" to 1.12" torsion bars
-sway bars
-disc brakes
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1147832
01/01/12 05:44 AM
01/01/12 05:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,765
quick77rt
OP
Parts Problem
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OP
Parts Problem
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,765
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 Great just the moparts member I was looking for since ive read so many of your posts. I think im off to a good start then, Ive always said I could take my street strip car and in a couple day swap springs and such and do somthing I really like to do, road courses and autocross. Since im building a purpose track car (drag) I can go a lil different way with the R/T. Here is where im at so far... 3200 pound f-body RMS Alterk 450 spring, I think it does better with the 550, what is too much? 17x8s bfg on all corners QA1 Double adjust on each corner MP F body zero arch road race leaf springs 4 wheel disc, WW up front, Dr Diff ford rear disc This is a very nice track, Ive went with friends and watched my buddy on his 1000cc bike and drove a friends bonemaro and for the mods wasnt impressed. http://www.highplainsraceway.com/track.htmlWhat about rear gearing?? Good rpm range???? I can step down my cam or ive a 358 circle track x block motor 12.8:1 I need to breakin. Im wondering if I should goto a manual rack as ive a power rack currently????
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: cudazappa]
#1147836
01/01/12 11:25 AM
01/01/12 11:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 757
Northern VA
bulletpruf
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 757
Northern VA
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Big difference between road race and autocross. If you want to road race in something like NASA (www.nasaforums.com), you'll need to start out with High Performance Driving Events (HPDE) - levels 1 through 4 - then get your competition license before you can do real wheel to wheel racing.
I wouldn't worry too much about hp at this point. See if you can take more weight out of the car, and make sure you have enough brakes to stop it - I'd be looking for 13" x 1.25" rotors up front and maybe 11.75 x .810 or larger in the rear. Wilwood makes good stuff at at affordable price - check their FSL calipers - about $150 each.
I'd go 17 x 9 on wheels, if you can fit 'em. You can get name brand lightweight wheels for about $125 each.
Detroit TrueTrac is a good diff for road racing.
If you've got an auto trans that's fine for autox, but I'd swap to a manual for road racing.
FYI - I'm in the middle of a 71 Javelin build for NASA American Iron - 401 w/500 flywheel hp, T-10, 9" floater w/Detroit TrueTrac, 3.50 gear, full cage, stripped interior, 17 x 9 wheels (MB Weapons, maybe?), street legal but with minimal creature comforts.
Good luck,
Scott
Please Check Out My YouTube Channel for Vintage Musclecar and Truck Rescues and Builds -- https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE/videos
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: cudazappa]
#1147837
01/01/12 11:25 AM
01/01/12 11:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,765
quick77rt
OP
Parts Problem
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OP
Parts Problem
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,765
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Thanks for the input, I used to autocross alot in the late 80-s, yes im sure its a whole nother world now. The cool thing about the high plains track is they have many many open lap testing days, its fun cause you can play a bit (compete). However its a good serious adult setting and everyone is very respectful of each other no mater what they run. But have fun doing it. If it takes 19-s and slicks so be it then go from there, but I will play with this setup for now. Ive been thinking about this for a couple years so its not like i just said thats cool, I used to ac a grand national. a 85 5.0 capri and a twin stick turbo colt. My gn ran against the monte ss and grand prix cars and they were so easy to take. At the HP track my buddy will hit over 150 on the straight on his 1000cc, before hitting the skids hard into a turn....I dont think id do that, maybe 20 years ago and he 55  Good tip on the rule book, I thought maybe the alterk was considered a bolt on part. 
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: quick77rt ]
#1147838
01/01/12 05:24 PM
01/01/12 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
|
Quote:
Great just the moparts member I was looking for since ive read so many of your posts.
I think im off to a good start then, Ive always said I could take my street strip car and in a couple day swap springs and such and do somthing I really like to do, road courses and autocross.
Since im building a purpose track car (drag) I can go a lil different way with the R/T.
Here is where im at so far...
3200 pound f-body
RMS Alterk 450 spring, I think it does better with the 550, what is too much?
17x8s bfg on all corners
QA1 Double adjust on each corner
MP F body zero arch road race leaf springs
4 wheel disc, WW up front, Dr Diff ford rear disc
This is a very nice track, Ive went with friends and watched my buddy on his 1000cc bike and drove a friends bonemaro and for the mods wasnt impressed.
http://www.highplainsraceway.com/track.html
What about rear gearing?? Good rpm range???? I can step down my cam or ive a 358 circle track x block motor 12.8:1 I need to breakin.
Im wondering if I should goto a manual rack as ive a power rack currently????
Power rack.
You need to see what cars like yours are running for top speed for gearing. Since the car is all together now, just go out for a track rental day the way it is now. Work from there. As your experiance level gets higher you probably will want a step less gear (you'll be going faster). But just go with what you have now. No reason to guess now.
Run the 550 lb springs if you have them. If you don't, might want to run what you have now. You might end up wanting more than 550's. I have 350 lb/in effective rate at the lower ball joint. Calc or ask Bill Reilly the conversion for an AlterKion setup.
Make sure you MP (circle track) springs have the same part number on both side so as to have the same rate and characteristics on booth sides.
IIRC, there is a guy with a black 70 Challenger Drew Crane? that is in CO that runs sometimes at one of the road race tracks there. Don't know which one.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 01/01/12 05:39 PM.
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: bulletpruf]
#1147839
01/02/12 01:34 AM
01/02/12 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I'd go 17 x 9 on wheels, if you can fit 'em. You can get name brand lightweight wheels for about $125 each.
Brand name lightweight (even relatively light weight) 17x9 rims for $125 each...???
What and where?
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: bulletpruf]
#1147841
01/02/12 02:13 PM
01/02/12 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Big difference between road race and autocross.
I agree with this. Autocross emphasizes high levels of roll resistance which can come with high spring rates and big sway bars and a lot of shock control to manage it all. Road race will want slightly softer spring set ups to allow suspension compliance with the road and higher sway bar rates to resist roll and will need more mucho more brake than autocross.
If you've done autocross before, you're already somewhat familir with it, but classing systems likely have changed. With an AlterK under the car, you may find yourself in a catagory where you are uncompetitive to the level of prep other cars have in the same class. If you're just going for fun to see what you can run, this is no big deal. If you actually want to win, then you may find you need to continue to modify the car to be competitive. http://www.rmsolo.org/ for more info.
Open track days at HPR are non-competetive. You can run against the clock and have gentlemen agreements with other racers, but it is not wheel to wheel, all out efforts. As such, I wouldn't worry to much about maximizing your car for it until you've put some time under your belt. If competition is your goal, I'd also second the suggestion to start out with NASA HPDE and a detailed read of the rule book. Work your way through this program to get a feel for the environment. Once complete, you can look at whether you want to run in their Time Trials program or a wheel to wheel racing program such as American iron. NASA Rocky Mtn runs at HPR, PMI, and PPIR locally with trips to Texas and Utah on occasion.
http://www.nasarockymountain.com/ for more detail
To get started, I'd swap out the drag rubber for something with less sidewall, maybe some 17x8 with at least a 255/45, 200 treadwear rating, turn some laps, and see what you need to do next based on where you want to go.
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: pro451bee]
#1147844
01/02/12 02:41 PM
01/02/12 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
Brand name lightweight (even relatively light weight) 17x9 rims for $125 each...???
What and where?
We bought several sets of used late model Mustang wheels for our Duster, they had MINOR tie rod clearance issues but otherwise fit and work great, cheap, lightweight, strong, and at most local wrecking yards, $50.00-$75.00 ea around here.
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Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics???
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1147845
01/10/12 06:31 AM
01/10/12 06:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Brand name lightweight (even relatively light weight) 17x9 rims for $125 each...???
What and where?
We bought several sets of used late model Mustang wheels for our Duster, they had MINOR tie rod clearance issues but otherwise fit and work great, cheap, lightweight, strong, and at most local wrecking yards, $50.00-$75.00 ea around here.
I have never heard ov a 17x9" stock Mustang rim. Ever. Not on the older ones (1994-2004, with the useful offsets) anyways. They're always 17x8". The stock Ford rims are on the lighter side, but you said brand name, and lightweight (which implies lighter than a stock 25lb rim).
The aftermarket Mustang stuff goes from 17x8 to 17x10.5", or 18x10"... but that stuff is NOT NOT NOT light. Our 18x10" DD Bullits were over 30lbs each. You could occasionally find those in yards though... but again, NOT light stuff!
You can find very light 15" rims, up to 10", if you go with circle track stuff, but they dont go up to 17 or 18 as far as i know.
EDIT: just realized it wasn't you that said 17x9" and light for $125.
RE-EDIT: By the way, nice job on the Adidas 'sponsorship'... haha
Last edited by Pale_Roader; 01/10/12 06:35 AM.
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