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Road Race/Autocross entry level basics???

Posted By: quick77rt

Road Race/Autocross entry level basics??? - 01/01/12 02:13 AM

Just as the title states if one was looking to get a mopar into a road race stance or autocross what do some consider a min start for a entry level car???

Any info would be very helpful
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 04:19 AM

Quote:

Just as the title states if one was looking to get a mopar into a road race stance or autocross what do some consider a min start for a entry level car???

Any info would be very helpful



If it is some class racing. Look the rules and go to an event FIRST.

-Wide tires in front. Preferably size tires in rear so you can rotate. You will be wearing outer edge of front tire much faster than rears. Even a 225/60/15 will do as a minimum.
-1" to 1.12" torsion bars
-sway bars
-disc brakes
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 09:44 AM

Great just the moparts member I was looking for since ive read so many of your posts.

I think im off to a good start then, Ive always said I could take my street strip car and in a couple day swap springs and such and do somthing I really like to do, road courses and autocross.

Since im building a purpose track car (drag) I can go a lil different way with the R/T.

Here is where im at so far...

3200 pound f-body
RMS Alterk 450 spring, I think it does better with the 550, what is too much?
17x8s bfg on all corners
QA1 Double adjust on each corner
MP F body zero arch road race leaf springs
4 wheel disc, WW up front, Dr Diff ford rear disc

This is a very nice track, Ive went with friends and watched my buddy on his 1000cc bike and drove a friends bonemaro and for the mods wasnt impressed.

http://www.highplainsraceway.com/track.html

What about rear gearing?? Good rpm range???? I can step down my cam or ive a 358 circle track x block motor 12.8:1 I need to breakin.

Im wondering if I should goto a manual rack as ive a power rack currently????

Attached picture 6995281-DSC00790.JPG
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 09:45 AM

Backside

Also trans cooler/oil cooler. On board fire system. 8 point bar, alot of extra braced chassis areas. Waiting on my procharger brackets if I want to use it, ive a hat fabbed for a mech six pack setup if needed.

But id like to run it n/a.

Attached picture 6995282-DSC00812.JPG
Posted By: HUSTLESTUFF

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 12:04 PM

If you're running 17's look at a 200 treadwear tire, same size all around to get more track time on them. I've said that HP and sticky tires make me look good. Kuhmo's are relatively inexpensive. http://www.kumhousa.com/tire/category/car/675DCE77-813E-4027-B467-2BEA0466BD5C
Posted By: cudazappa

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 01:49 PM

Quote:

If it is some class racing. Look the rules and go to an event FIRST.



I consider this the most important comment. Figure out who you'll be running with and decide if you want to be competitive. Makes a big difference in prep.

If you run with the SCCA (or a group that uses the rulebook) that Alter-K puts you in CP which is a very high level of prep. 9" wide rims at a minimum with slicks. and then we can start talking corner weights and wheel rates.
Posted By: bulletpruf

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 03:25 PM

Big difference between road race and autocross. If you want to road race in something like NASA (www.nasaforums.com), you'll need to start out with High Performance Driving Events (HPDE) - levels 1 through 4 - then get your competition license before you can do real wheel to wheel racing.

I wouldn't worry too much about hp at this point. See if you can take more weight out of the car, and make sure you have enough brakes to stop it - I'd be looking for 13" x 1.25" rotors up front and maybe 11.75 x .810 or larger in the rear. Wilwood makes good stuff at at affordable price - check their FSL calipers - about $150 each.

I'd go 17 x 9 on wheels, if you can fit 'em. You can get name brand lightweight wheels for about $125 each.

Detroit TrueTrac is a good diff for road racing.

If you've got an auto trans that's fine for autox, but I'd swap to a manual for road racing.

FYI - I'm in the middle of a 71 Javelin build for NASA American Iron - 401 w/500 flywheel hp, T-10, 9" floater w/Detroit TrueTrac, 3.50 gear, full cage, stripped interior, 17 x 9 wheels (MB Weapons, maybe?), street legal but with minimal creature comforts.

Good luck,

Scott
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 03:25 PM

Thanks for the input, I used to autocross alot in the late 80-s, yes im sure its a whole nother world now.

The cool thing about the high plains track is they have many many open lap testing days, its fun cause you can play a bit (compete).

However its a good serious adult setting and everyone is very respectful of each other no mater what they run. But have fun doing it.

If it takes 19-s and slicks so be it then go from there, but I will play with this setup for now.

Ive been thinking about this for a couple years so its not like i just said thats cool, I used to ac a grand national. a 85 5.0 capri and a twin stick turbo colt.

My gn ran against the monte ss and grand prix cars and they were so easy to take.

At the HP track my buddy will hit over 150 on the straight on his 1000cc, before hitting the skids hard into a turn....I dont think id do that, maybe 20 years ago and he 55

Good tip on the rule book, I thought maybe the alterk was considered a bolt on part.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/01/12 09:24 PM

Quote:

Great just the moparts member I was looking for since ive read so many of your posts.

I think im off to a good start then, Ive always said I could take my street strip car and in a couple day swap springs and such and do somthing I really like to do, road courses and autocross.

Since im building a purpose track car (drag) I can go a lil different way with the R/T.

Here is where im at so far...

3200 pound f-body
RMS Alterk 450 spring, I think it does better with the 550, what is too much?
17x8s bfg on all corners
QA1 Double adjust on each corner
MP F body zero arch road race leaf springs
4 wheel disc, WW up front, Dr Diff ford rear disc

This is a very nice track, Ive went with friends and watched my buddy on his 1000cc bike and drove a friends bonemaro and for the mods wasnt impressed.

http://www.highplainsraceway.com/track.html

What about rear gearing?? Good rpm range???? I can step down my cam or ive a 358 circle track x block motor 12.8:1 I need to breakin.

Im wondering if I should goto a manual rack as ive a power rack currently????



Power rack.

You need to see what cars like yours are running for top speed for gearing. Since the car is all together now, just go out for a track rental day the way it is now. Work from there. As your experiance level gets higher you probably will want a step less gear (you'll be going faster). But just go with what you have now. No reason to guess now.

Run the 550 lb springs if you have them. If you don't, might want to run what you have now. You might end up wanting more than 550's. I have 350 lb/in effective rate at the lower ball joint. Calc or ask Bill Reilly the conversion for an AlterKion setup.

Make sure you MP (circle track) springs have the same part number on both side so as to have the same rate and characteristics on booth sides.

IIRC, there is a guy with a black 70 Challenger Drew Crane? that is in CO that runs sometimes at one of the road race tracks there. Don't know which one.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/02/12 05:34 AM

Quote:


I'd go 17 x 9 on wheels, if you can fit 'em. You can get name brand lightweight wheels for about $125 each.



Brand name lightweight (even relatively light weight) 17x9 rims for $125 each...???

What and where?
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Road Race/Autocross entry level basics??? - 01/02/12 06:22 AM

Bent bar cars are probably the poorest choice as a starting point, but if that is what you want to use then give the guys at Firm Feel a call. Dick Ross raced a bent bar car for a few years and he has the parts that you'll need to get it to corner.

If you're going to road race it then you'll need some big front brakes. My 13 inch Viper kit will bolt on to the FMJ knuckle or you can get a kit from Baer or DoctorDiff.
Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/02/12 06:13 PM

Quote:

Big difference between road race and autocross.



I agree with this. Autocross emphasizes high levels of roll resistance which can come with high spring rates and big sway bars and a lot of shock control to manage it all. Road race will want slightly softer spring set ups to allow suspension compliance with the road and higher sway bar rates to resist roll and will need more mucho more brake than autocross.

If you've done autocross before, you're already somewhat familir with it, but classing systems likely have changed. With an AlterK under the car, you may find yourself in a catagory where you are uncompetitive to the level of prep other cars have in the same class. If you're just going for fun to see what you can run, this is no big deal. If you actually want to win, then you may find you need to continue to modify the car to be competitive. http://www.rmsolo.org/ for more info.

Open track days at HPR are non-competetive. You can run against the clock and have gentlemen agreements with other racers, but it is not wheel to wheel, all out efforts. As such, I wouldn't worry to much about maximizing your car for it until you've put some time under your belt. If competition is your goal, I'd also second the suggestion to start out with NASA HPDE and a detailed read of the rule book. Work your way through this program to get a feel for the environment. Once complete, you can look at whether you want to run in their Time Trials program or a wheel to wheel racing program such as American iron. NASA Rocky Mtn runs at HPR, PMI, and PPIR locally with trips to Texas and Utah on occasion.
http://www.nasarockymountain.com/ for more detail

To get started, I'd swap out the drag rubber for something with less sidewall, maybe some 17x8 with at least a 255/45, 200 treadwear rating, turn some laps, and see what you need to do next based on where you want to go.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/02/12 06:15 PM

Wanna learn A LOT?

Go try some of this out www.24hoursoflemons.com

Attached picture 6997988-LemonsInfinionD.jpg
Posted By: pro451bee

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/02/12 06:33 PM

Nice F body R/T .I like the paint job alot .Firm feel has some nice parts for you .Do you have RMS front end already?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/02/12 06:41 PM

Quote:

Brand name lightweight (even relatively light weight) 17x9 rims for $125 each...???

What and where?



We bought several sets of used late model Mustang wheels for our Duster, they had MINOR tie rod clearance issues but otherwise fit and work great, cheap, lightweight, strong, and at most local wrecking yards, $50.00-$75.00 ea around here.

Attached picture 6998033-OregonLemonsDuster.jpg
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Road Race/Autocross enrty level basics??? - 01/10/12 10:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Brand name lightweight (even relatively light weight) 17x9 rims for $125 each...???

What and where?



We bought several sets of used late model Mustang wheels for our Duster, they had MINOR tie rod clearance issues but otherwise fit and work great, cheap, lightweight, strong, and at most local wrecking yards, $50.00-$75.00 ea around here.



I have never heard ov a 17x9" stock Mustang rim. Ever. Not on the older ones (1994-2004, with the useful offsets) anyways. They're always 17x8". The stock Ford rims are on the lighter side, but you said brand name, and lightweight (which implies lighter than a stock 25lb rim).

The aftermarket Mustang stuff goes from 17x8 to 17x10.5", or 18x10"... but that stuff is NOT NOT NOT light. Our 18x10" DD Bullits were over 30lbs each. You could occasionally find those in yards though... but again, NOT light stuff!

You can find very light 15" rims, up to 10", if you go with circle track stuff, but they dont go up to 17 or 18 as far as i know.


EDIT: just realized it wasn't you that said 17x9" and light for $125.

RE-EDIT: By the way, nice job on the Adidas 'sponsorship'... haha
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