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68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 #1140712
12/21/11 01:05 PM
12/21/11 01:05 PM
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Arizona
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68CoronetRT Offline OP
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Does anyone have a recommended source for these?
Anything to watch for on the repos?

Last edited by 68CoronetRT; 12/21/11 01:06 PM.
Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1140713
12/21/11 02:19 PM
12/21/11 02:19 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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the return hole is too large. it needs to be reduced to a maximun i.d. of .060.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: lewtot184] #1140714
12/21/11 03:03 PM
12/21/11 03:03 PM
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Arizona
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68CoronetRT Offline OP
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Quote:

the return hole is too large. it needs to be reduced to a maximun i.d. of .060.



Is this true of all the repos?
If so what did you use to reduce the hole size?

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1140715
12/21/11 03:52 PM
12/21/11 03:52 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Quote:

the return hole is too large. it needs to be reduced to a maximun i.d. of .060.



Is this true of all the repos?
If so what did you use to reduce the hole size?




Normally they have a .060 orifice in the return nipple...
if you want to make sure its .060 drill a .060 hole
in a piece of 1/4 round brass stock and push it in the
end of the rubber hose at the separator nipple then
clamp the hose on

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1140716
12/21/11 04:48 PM
12/21/11 04:48 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

the return hole is too large. it needs to be reduced to a maximun i.d. of .060.



Is this true of all the repos?
If so what did you use to reduce the hole size?


all of them that i've used have too large of a return hole. i've been soft soldering up the hole and redrilling with a .035-.040 drill bit. factory return orifice was .060 but they used special pumps that are no longer availiable. i use carter 6903 pumps with some minor modifications.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: lewtot184] #1140717
12/21/11 05:19 PM
12/21/11 05:19 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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I had the same issue with the return orifice being too big. I threw a hose clamp on the return line and pinched it shut and she ran just fine after that. Solved the problem until I got around to looking at the orifice size.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1140718
12/21/11 05:55 PM
12/21/11 05:55 PM
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Southeast Virginia
68jim Offline
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In the process of chasing down fuel problems with my car last year I discovered that by pinching the return line my pressure would increase by 2 psi. Found out my opening was closer to .080"-.090". I soldered the end up using a small torch and drilled out to a recommended .030". My pressure drop now is much better at only .5 psi and I had no issues running the car in 95 degree heat this last Summer.

Jim

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1140719
12/21/11 08:20 PM
12/21/11 08:20 PM
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Alaska
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73rrak Offline
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Get a Miller mig welder tip in whatever size you need cut the hose and use it as a splice. put some armor all on the welder tip and it will help you slide the hose all the way over the welder tip and you will never know it's there.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 73rrak] #1140720
12/21/11 08:32 PM
12/21/11 08:32 PM
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Get a Miller mig welder tip in whatever size you need cut the hose and use it as a splice. put some armor all on the welder tip and it will help you slide the hose all the way over the welder tip and you will never know it's there.





Won't you see the clamps?

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: Challenger 1] #1140721
12/21/11 08:50 PM
12/21/11 08:50 PM
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Posts: 1,047
Arizona
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68CoronetRT Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Get a Miller mig welder tip in whatever size you need cut the hose and use it as a splice. put some armor all on the welder tip and it will help you slide the hose all the way over the welder tip and you will never know it's there.





Won't you see the clamps?




I think if you slide the tip in far enough so that the hose could fit over the nipple you wouldn't need an extra clamp.

Now do I need a .060 diameter hole or should I go with .035" or something else? Running a Holly 870 Street Avenger carburetor.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1140722
12/21/11 08:59 PM
12/21/11 08:59 PM
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Romeo MI
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Now do I need a .060 diameter hole or should I go with .035" or something else? Running a Holly 870 Street Avenger carburetor.




Time to T in a fuel gauge and find out what size
orifice you need... start small and watch the gauge...
run a hose with the gauge on it and tape it to your
windshield

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1140723
12/21/11 09:09 PM
12/21/11 09:09 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Get a Miller mig welder tip in whatever size you need cut the hose and use it as a splice. put some armor all on the welder tip and it will help you slide the hose all the way over the welder tip and you will never know it's there.





Won't you see the clamps?




I think if you slide the tip in far enough so that the hose could fit over the nipple you wouldn't need an extra clamp.

Now do I need a .060 diameter hole or should I go with .035" or something else? Running a Holly 870 Street Avenger carburetor.


i've tested different sizes. the smaller the more stable fuel pressure is. consider .060 max and around .030 minimum. actually i got down to figuring the area of different orifice holes and compared them to each other to get an idea of what the reduction in size really meant. .035 is a nice place to be.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: lewtot184] #1140724
12/21/11 09:43 PM
12/21/11 09:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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i've tested different sizes. the smaller the more stable fuel pressure is. consider .060 max and around .030 minimum. actually i got down to figuring the area of different orifice holes and compared them to each other to get an idea of what the reduction in size really meant. .035 is a nice place to be.




What was your running pressure with a .030 and at
what size did the pressure start to drop at

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: Challenger 1] #1140725
12/21/11 09:59 PM
12/21/11 09:59 PM
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Alaska
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73rrak Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Get a Miller mig welder tip in whatever size you need cut the hose and use it as a splice. put some armor all on the welder tip and it will help you slide the hose all the way over the welder tip and you will never know it's there.





Won't you see the clamps?




No .... Not if you slide the welder tip on the hose far enough. The armor all will help the tip slide all the way in the hose. If you do it near whatever you are connecting to it will hook up like normal with just a clamp on the connection a the fuel pump or carb or whatever.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1140726
12/21/11 10:12 PM
12/21/11 10:12 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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Quote:

i've tested different sizes. the smaller the more stable fuel pressure is. consider .060 max and around .030 minimum. actually i got down to figuring the area of different orifice holes and compared them to each other to get an idea of what the reduction in size really meant. .035 is a nice place to be.




What was your running pressure with a .030 and at
what size did the pressure start to drop at



thats somewhat of a loaded question. i'm going on mental notes here. the real pressure fluctuations are below 2500rpm. with a .075 orifice and a rated 6lb pump. fluctations at idle where between 2-5.5lbs. a lot of needle flopping on the pressure gauge. reducing the orifice size to .035 would bring the pressure variance down to about a 1-1.5lbs at idle. the real killer with the big orifice was fuel pressure up around 4500-5000rpm. pressure would go down to 2lbs (street 440 6-pak engine). reducing orifice size down to .035 would bring the higher rpm pressure up to about 3-3.5lbs. since then i've done some pump work and fuel line changes (deleted the return) and have not recorded any higher rpm pressure checks but do have the engine idling at 7.5psi with no problems. i'd think 5000+rpm pressure is probably 4+lbs. i know the car sure ran a bunch better. if the engine is basically stock just changing the orifice is good. if modified go after the pump too.

6978315-100_0293.jpg (336 downloads)
Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: 73rrak] #1140727
12/21/11 10:56 PM
12/21/11 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Get a Miller mig welder tip in whatever size you need cut the hose and use it as a splice. put some armor all on the welder tip and it will help you slide the hose all the way over the welder tip and you will never know it's there.





Won't you see the clamps?




No .... Not if you slide the welder tip on the hose far enough. The armor all will help the tip slide all the way in the hose. If you do it near whatever you are connecting to it will hook up like normal with just a clamp on the connection a the fuel pump or carb or whatever.





Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: lewtot184] #1140728
12/22/11 12:15 PM
12/22/11 12:15 PM
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Posts: 1,047
Arizona
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68CoronetRT Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

i've tested different sizes. the smaller the more stable fuel pressure is. consider .060 max and around .030 minimum. actually i got down to figuring the area of different orifice holes and compared them to each other to get an idea of what the reduction in size really meant. .035 is a nice place to be.




. . . i'm going on mental notes here. the real pressure fluctuations are below 2500rpm. with a .075 orifice and a rated 6lb pump. fluctations at idle where between 2-5.5lbs. a lot of needle flopping on the pressure gauge. reducing the orifice size to .035 would bring the pressure variance down to about a 1-1.5lbs at idle. the real killer with the big orifice was fuel pressure up around 4500-5000rpm. pressure would go down to 2lbs (street 440 6-pak engine). reducing orifice size down to .035 would bring the higher rpm pressure up to about 3-3.5lbs. since then i've done some pump work and fuel line changes (deleted the return) and have not recorded any higher rpm pressure checks but do have the engine idling at 7.5psi with no problems. i'd think 5000+rpm pressure is probably 4+lbs. i know the car sure ran a bunch better. if the engine is basically stock just changing the orifice is good. if modified go after the pump too.




Thanks. That's some good information there. I'll start with .035 since I have some MIG tips that size on hand anyway.
You mentioned the fuel pump and I have an OEM replacement pump that was on the motor when I took it apart.
What kind (brand or type) of fuel pump should I be looking for.

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1140729
12/22/11 12:22 PM
12/22/11 12:22 PM
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Berwyn, IL
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Moparlar Offline
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Is the return hole size only on Repos or original chrysler ones also?

Larry

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: Moparlar] #1140730
12/22/11 01:07 PM
12/22/11 01:07 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Is the return hole size only on Repos or original chrysler ones also?

Larry




If I recall correctly the orifice was .060 on the
factory ones... that was alot of years ago when I
worked on that stuff in the fuel lab

Re: 68 Fuel Vapor Separater for 440 [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1140731
12/22/11 02:45 PM
12/22/11 02:45 PM
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the single diaphragm 2 valve pumps won't cut it for performance usage. if the engine is pretty much stock a carter 6903 is a perfect fit. if the power level starts going above 400-425hp i'd tinker with the 6903 a little. i disassemble the pump. the bottom section, the bowl, has an inlet passage that goes from one side to the other. open that passage up to 5/16". deburr and radius the inlet and outlet of that passage. deburr and radius the inside of the outlet passage in the center section. i use some 320 paper and a smooth hard surface to correct any warps or distortions in the mating surfaces of the bowl and centersection (valve body). doing this will actually add a little pressure. i don't mess with the valves. to get the pressure above 7psi i had a .060 rubber washer between the diaphragm seal and lever body (lever will need to be taken out to do this and probably isn't necessary to do unless you want to push the envelope a little). i played with an edelbrock 6lb pump a little and these pumps already have the bowl modifications but pressure was excessive, 9-11lbs, and they didn't pump anymore fuel than the 6903. ironically, the edelbrock pump is made by carter.

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