440 build Any sugestions?
#1105922
11/02/11 12:24 PM
11/02/11 12:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058 bigfork mn
dragram440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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My brother is building a 440 for a 69 valiant we recently picked up and he had started building this engine awhile ago. The engine is a 440 block .40 overbore, arp main bolts, LY rods, keith black forged flat top pistons, no cam yet but thinking conservative solid roller around 250 @ .50 and .620 lift. edelbrock victor heads standard port not max wedge, comp 1.5 offset rockers, m1 single plane intake, hooker super comp fenderwell headers, no carb yet,or ignition, 3800-4000 9.5" converter he has and 727 manual valve body, 8 3/4 rear spool 35 spline axles and 3.91's. He has most of this stuff already. Guestimate on horsepower and any suggestions on other opinions would be appreciated.
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: dragram440]
#1105923
11/02/11 01:24 PM
11/02/11 01:24 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210 robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Put a .590 solid cam in, instead of the roller, buy a lighter set of rods and more converter, if it's race only. As is 530-550 hp, without knowing the weight tyre type and size, i wouldn't guess on et. Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: dragram440]
#1105924
11/02/11 01:47 PM
11/02/11 01:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339 somwhere
smokinwoody
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
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Quote:
My brother is building a 440 for a 69 valiant we recently picked up and he had started building this engine awhile ago. The engine is a 440 block .40 overbore, arp main bolts, LY rods, keith black forged flat top pistons, no cam yet but thinking conservative solid roller around 250 @ .50 and .620 lift. edelbrock victor heads standard port not max wedge, comp 1.5 offset rockers, m1 single plane intake, hooker super comp fenderwell headers, no carb yet,or ignition, 3800-4000 9.5" converter he has and 727 manual valve body, 8 3/4 rear spool 35 spline axles and 3.91's. He has most of this stuff already. Guestimate on horsepower and any suggestions on other opinions would be appreciated.
I thought the Victors were already maxwedge ported...guess not...if thats the case, that cam isnt going to be used to its potential, like said...
sounds like its going to be a strip/street machine w/3.91 gears...
what I would do and this is me..I think outa the box at times..have those heads ported and opened up to Maxwedge ports and get the Victor intake from Edlebrock and have it port matched...lose those LY rods...have the entire rotating assembly balanced..etc etc..then you can take advantage of that cam...probably need more like 4400-4600rpm stall..I was using a 5500 on my 448..was a bit much for LY rods..snap
Im sure you will get a lot more dos and donts...
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: smokinwoody]
#1105925
11/02/11 01:54 PM
11/02/11 01:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058 bigfork mn
dragram440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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Quote:
Quote:
My brother is building a 440 for a 69 valiant we recently picked up and he had started building this engine awhile ago. The engine is a 440 block .40 overbore, arp main bolts, LY rods, keith black forged flat top pistons, no cam yet but thinking conservative solid roller around 250 @ .50 and .620 lift. edelbrock victor heads standard port not max wedge, comp 1.5 offset rockers, m1 single plane intake, hooker super comp fenderwell headers, no carb yet,or ignition, 3800-4000 9.5" converter he has and 727 manual valve body, 8 3/4 rear spool 35 spline axles and 3.91's. He has most of this stuff already. Guestimate on horsepower and any suggestions on other opinions would be appreciated.
I thought the Victors were already maxwedge ported...guess not...if thats the case, that cam isnt going to be used to its potential, like said...
sounds like its going to be a strip/street machine w/3.91 gears...
what I would do and this is me..I think outa the box at times..have those heads ported and opened up to Maxwedge ports and get the Victor intake from Edlebrock and have it port matched...lose those LY rods...have the entire rotating assembly balanced..etc etc..then you can take advantage of that cam...probably need more like 4400-4600rpm stall..I was using a 5500 on my 448..was a bit much for LY rods..snap
Im sure you will get a lot more dos and donts...
I should have said the rotating assembly is fully balanced. Im not that found of the ly rods but he has them and they have been reconditioned. The converter is new and he can send it in to get the stall speed changed so thats not to big of a deal. He has the intake and from the reading I have done it seems to be a good intake. Yes street strip car. should have mentioned that. comp. should be around 11.5-1 but havent figured it exact as we are not sure of the deck height. The block has been squared and machine work is all done.
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: dragram440]
#1105928
11/02/11 02:47 PM
11/02/11 02:47 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210 robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Tell him not to rev it beyond 6500. Ask me how i know
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: deaks]
#1105929
11/02/11 02:57 PM
11/02/11 02:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058 bigfork mn
dragram440
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super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
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bigfork mn
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I think if he goes with a conservative cam he shouldnt have to rev it real high. Or need a real huge converter as long as it runs decent e.t.'s. He wants fast but not trying to make it a 9 sec. car or anything.
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: dragram440]
#1105931
11/02/11 03:05 PM
11/02/11 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I would go with a bit more duration (260?) but use endurance type roller cam lobes for better life of the parts. So much depends on what you do with the heads, and the cam /carb that it is impossible to give any hp estimates at this point. Figure out how to make the heads flow as much as possible, get a cam to use the flow, max out the compression for the fuel used and get the piston to head clearance down close (.040?) and you should have a winner. It should be easy to get this deal into the tens, but how far depends on a lot of your choices. One thing I am not fond of is the low converter stall. If this is a street strip deal, you have to live with some compromise. But if this is race only, get the stall up above 5,000 rpm, preferably within 1200/1300 rpm of shift point or maybe closer.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: gregsdart]
#1105932
11/02/11 03:11 PM
11/02/11 03:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058 bigfork mn
dragram440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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Quote:
I would go with a bit more duration (260?) but use endurance type roller cam lobes for better life of the parts. So much depends on what you do with the heads, and the cam /carb that it is impossible to give any hp estimates at this point. Figure out how to make the heads flow as much as possible, get a cam to use the flow, max out the compression for the fuel used and get the piston to head clearance down close (.040?) and you should have a winner. It should be easy to get this deal into the tens, but how far depends on a lot of your choices. One thing I am not fond of is the low converter stall. If this is a street strip deal, you have to live with some compromise. But if this is race only, get the stall up above 5,000 rpm, preferably within 1200/1300 rpm of shift point or maybe closer.
I agree completely with the cam, I run a 275@50 in mine and also I run a 8" 5000 converter. He got a really good deal on alot of these parts including the tranny and converter. Im sure a 1050 domi. would also be the ticket for carb. Thanks for the recomendations everyone. Keep em coming. This is what I really like about this board!
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: dragram440]
#1105935
11/02/11 07:46 PM
11/02/11 07:46 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210 robin hood country
deaks
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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What heads do you have on here and whats done to them? How much compression?
I have RPM'S ported by Jeff at modern and milled .050 but not max wedge, J E domes, just over 12.5.1. The money saved using a solid instead of a roller, could go towards some better rods and maybe just have the converter looked at. What weight will the car be with driver? Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: CH3NO2]
#1105937
11/03/11 01:39 PM
11/03/11 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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master
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Puyallup, WA
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If I were building this motor, I'd focus a little more attention on the bottom half. Building this much horsepower on what amounts to a bone stock bottom end seems to be a questionable plan. Stock main caps are okay, but main studs are an absolute must, and the 40 year old LY rods are on a suicide mission, no matter what bolts are in them, at this performance goal level. My opinion is that once your talking about Victor heads, 4500 carbs, and 10-second timeslips, You should have already accepted the costs of quality aftermarket rods, main-studs with a mainline hone; and aftermarket caps and a girdle assembly and should not be out of the question. The fastest way to blow a budget is to put a window in the block.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: CH3NO2]
#1105938
11/03/11 01:42 PM
11/03/11 01:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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I've had several nearly identicle 440 bracket motors, same cam, same heads, same pistons and compression ratio, the only differences was the 6 pak rod versus the standard LY 440 rod. The 6 pak rod motor didn't like to pull as hard above 6000 RPM as the LY rod motors did There are several rules that apply to race motors, big is best, C.I. cam, heads, carbs. and intake, compression ratio and a few others Another one apllys to motors and cars, lightweigh is right, rods, pistons, wheels and tires, drivetrain components and a few others Those six pak rods are overkill
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: 440 valiant]
#1105939
11/03/11 02:33 PM
11/03/11 02:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949 land of 10,000______'s
BDS871Cuda
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
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Nice combo!!! I ran a combo close to it. 440 stock bottom end. LY rods, stock crank. Ross 10.5 to 1 pistions. Ultradyn solid 590-613 cam. 452 heads, Crane adj. rockers, M1 intake, 825 race Demon, MSD All this in a 4000 lb. Tank (sport fury) ran 11.16 in full street trim at Cedar Falls Raceway (Iowa)
Your little 69 Valiant should be 600-800 lbs. less weight, so mid 10's should be easy. Bring that motor to Line Performance and it should make 575- 600 HP. I'm sure Lance Line is still there, even if brother Jason is out winning Pro stock champion ship # 2!
Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: CH3NO2]
#1105940
11/03/11 04:08 PM
11/03/11 04:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 130 Marcell, MN
68 Roadrunner
member
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member
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Marcell, MN
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Quote:
don't use stock rods.
It would be cheaper to do the rods now instead of later when you window the block. LMAO!!!
1968 Roadrunner 383 auto
.060 KB 400 domed pistons, Stealth heads, Torker intake, Holley 830, Lunati Voodoo cam 276/284, .513/.533, TCI 3500, 3.91 gears, all ARP fasteners,
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Re: 440 build Any sugestions?
[Re: CH3NO2]
#1105941
11/03/11 04:13 PM
11/03/11 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
don't use stock rods.
No sh!t. I gotta jigsaw puzzle made outta a stock LY rod that I threw at the 1000-ft mark one Friday night at the track. It also cost me a crank, a block, a camshaft, an oil pan...
Good rods are part of the foundation for any performance build. You can do a basic head swap in an afternoon, but replacing rods needs to happen at the start.
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