After three attempts with rubber lip seals, hours of research on the "do's and don't" on installing rear main seals, close to $100 of gaskets, sealer and seals AND the clean up work trying to make everything look good again. All of this could of been prevented if I just went with my gut feelings and installed a Rope Seal to begin with.

I just got done with my 472 Hemi and after starting it up for the first time I saw a little leak at the rear main. Time went on and it did not get any better. I pulled the pan and the seal and I did not see anything out of the ordinary but the lower seal was very wet so I new I found the location of the problem. I thought that just maybe it was just "one of those things" and I put it all back together.

Well that was a mistake!! It leaked even worse than before!! So I started reading and researching and found that I'm not the only person with these problems. One of the "solutions" was to shim the seal. Add a .020 thick casket behind the seal. This will apply more surface contact with the seal to the crank. It sounded good...... but it did not work at all!!! That made one heck of a mess!!!

With all that BS out of the way I'm going to tell you all what I have found out. Here are the parts that I'm working with.

Second generation, Mopar Performance Hemi Block. (not a World Block)
Started with Aluminum Billet Seal retainer but went to factory retainer.
Eagle 4.150 crank with knurled seal surface.
Started with Felpro seal, then Mopar Performance seal.

Now the fix!! I should done this to begin with.

Remove old seal and clean everything, crank, seal retainer mounting bolts, everything.
Use rope seal Victor Reinz part number JV551. FelPro has them as well.
Go to Napa and buy tool #492 also known as "Sneaky Pet" rope seal installation tool.

Step 1: Measure seal retainer. It should be 3.000 /- .015 If it is taller than that, remove excess. Dry fit into block and the engine block oil pan surface and the seal retainer should be flush. Then remove.

Step 2: Take new rope seal and place it in the seal retainer. Take a large socket and press and form the seal into the retainer. Form the seal to the point where the seal is uniformed and fits nicely in the retainer. The ends will hang out by 1/2" on either side. Take a new razor blade and cut the ends off BUT leave 1/16' extra on both ends.

Step 3: Carefully remove seal out of the retainer and spray JB80 or other spray lube on both sides of the seal. Take your new Napa seal installation tool and thread it around the crank where the seal goes. Hook you formed rope seal on the end of the tool. Apply more JB80 to the seal. With help from a friend have them start to rotate the crankshaft while you pull the seal into the block. This tool is so cool!! You will see how the little jaws that grabs the seal is the same size as the grove the the seal sits in. When the seal is going through the block it pinches the seal and hold onto the new seal. Keep pulling till the seal just starts to come through the other side and then stop and remove tool.

Step 4: Take the seal retainer and a center punch and make 6 marks in the area where the side seals lay. These little punch marks will help hold the side seals in and keep them from sliding down during install. Take the rope seal and place it in the retainer and like before form it to the retainer like before. Again cut the extra off but remember ti leave the 1/16" extra. Remove seal and apply sealer to the retainer where the seal lies. Reinstall seal into retainer and press firmly to make sure seal is in place.

Step 6: Go back to the seal that is in the engine block....take a long screwdriver and push and form the ends of the seal so it does not lay on the engine block where the seal retainer meets the engine block. Just do your best to push all those threads to the center of the seal. Now do the same thing to the seal that is in the retainer. Apply a dab of sealer to the ends of the seal and a VERY thin coat of sealer it the ends of the retainer where it meets the block.

Step 7: The Victor rope seal comes with these cardboard type side seals. Take these side seals and dunk them in oil....You must be kinda quick when doing this because they will start to swell. Take the oiled side seals and place them on the seal retainer with about 1/4" sticking above the retainer. Quickly install the seal retainer into the block. When you push the retainer up and in the side seals will slip some but when everything is in correctly the side seals should be flush or have 1/16' sticking down. Install the two mounting bolts and your almost done.

Step 8: (optional) I took a 1" wide piece of sheet metal and but a very slight bend in it. I then put 3" long bead of sealer on it. I threaded my new tool up behind the block where the seal retainer meets the block. I forced the bead of sealer into the small gap where the seal retainer meets the block. I then drew the tool down from behind the block and that slight bend I put in the tool helped force the sealer into this gap. I did this two or three time and I saw the sealer being forced into that gap. I did this for a little extra security.

Bolt the pan back up and you should be good to go.

I know many of you are saying that rope seals rob horse power. I believe that they might at first but when they get broken in I think that the HP loss is unmeasurable.

Some say that if you just shave the seal retainer that it will clamp down a little harder on the crank and the seal will seal. The problem with that is now the "crush" on the seal is no longer round and it will leak even more. This is why the retainer should be 3.000 and not much less.

I just wanted to give you all my Hope it helps.

Thanks, Troy

The Knurled crank surface was the first clue that you should have run a rope seal first time out....general rule, knurled-rope, smooth-rubber, nothing wrong with rubber seals, as long as the crank surface is designed for it,...I'm old school myself and prefer rope seals, I've had more fuss with rubber seals too, than what they're worth,...glad everything worked out for you Troy in the end,....when you going to post some pics of that toy?

Mike

Troy; Sounds like alot of work. I've only had one rear main leak in dozens of bb mopars. It was a rope seal that died. I've used the rubbers seals for about 30 years without a problem. One of my buddies last winter encountered problems with his world block. Ended up having to disassemble the motor and have it machined.Dave

glad you got it straightened out! now as mentioned before lets see some pictures of the beast! fwiw the people on here will appreciate you effort more then most you will encounter once you start driving it. i put about 500 miles on mine this summer doing cruises since i couldn't race and unless it was viewed by a hardcore mopar or old school racer most didn't even realize what the car was. typical cmment was " oh look, a big motor in a dart". dave

I would like to have a dime for every rubber seal that I have installed and worked. Most of the time they just seep a little and we live with it and we call it good.

When I googled this problem there were many people with this problem and I just wanted to post what I have found.

I will be posting more pictures of this project very soon!!

Troy

.....ok, here a picture to tie you over..

I have been allways affraid on use the rubber seal. I have changed twice in 10 years, but the original never leaked in 20 years before.

Now that I'm working on the 450 stroke, was thinking about

Thinking now on the rope seal back... I think I can find dozens OF THOSE NOS AROUND in an Old Mopar dealer.

I guess there is not a problem using a NOS one ?

The problem is the knurling on the crank. I have all the Chinese cranks sent to my crank grinder for check and correct anyway. We discovered that a .006 cut on the rear main seal surface knocks down the high spots and provides a smoother working surface. ALL of the premium cranks (Callies, Crower, etc.do NOT use the knurling and they never give you any issues with leaks)..I always use the orange "Fluoroelastomer" seal. It is the highest quality available, as far as I know. No leaks...

MB

Sweet car

Not to beat a dead horse but
knurled crank = Rope seal
Smooth (or worn down knurling) = Lip seal.

That's the way I have always built my engine no leak problems.

Regarding where the seal rides, 2 questions...

Was the crank all the way back, as in, the end play?

Was the spot where the seal was possibly a worn knurled area?

Thanks.

looks like it might be in backwards, hard to see . should be open part of lip toward front of block.so pressure in the engine forces it tight to the crank.

That's what I was thinking too, but I'm hardly an expert. Indeed, hard to tell in the picture, but there is the line on the crank where it looks like the seal has rubbed away the grease.

....no, it is in correctly. The lip goes to the inside of the engine. The design is so when oil is pressed to the seal it forces the lip into the crank making a tighter seal.

I am 80% sure that the leak is not due to oil leaking between the crank and the seal but rather between the seal and the engine block/seal retainer......that is my thought.