1960 Plymouth frame
#1066560
08/31/11 04:47 PM
08/31/11 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 248
Ohio
aquamist60
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Ohio
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I've decided to go with a front V-8 subframe for my 1960 Ply. Savoy, (if I can find a good one) instead of fabricating motor mounts to put a 440 in it. Anybody have ideas where I should look? I've been all over the net, but not sure who to trust and really haven't found one yet. Thanks, Larry.
I know I've brought this up and wrote about it back in May that I broke my femur. I can't walk on it yet and Friday the Dr says we're doing another operation in 2-3 weeks and possibly another after that. I can't get out to the garage to look at it, let alone work on it. I've got a few projects, but this is the biggest one on my bucket list.
Before my dad died we talked about the car, as I got it from his dad just before he died. Many things happened through the years and it got pushed to the bottom of the list. I'd really like to get it done now and finally have some fun with it. I could put the /6 back in it, but the 440 I've got sitting in the corner is what we really want to put in it. Any help at all, you can't begin to imagine what it would mean, as well as helping get me out of this depression funk I've been in for way too long. Well, thanks for listening anyway. If you can help point me in the right direction, I'm already grateful.
Last edited by aquamist60; 08/31/11 05:08 PM.
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: rbstroker]
#1066562
08/31/11 08:08 PM
08/31/11 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 248
Ohio
aquamist60
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Quote:
In 1960, Plymouths were offered with B block engines. Why would you go through the agravation of doing a front clip on a full frame car? Just get the correct factory parts or use "elephant ears". I would assume that the factory mounts are the same from '58-'61. Kits are available to upgrade the factory brakes to disk also. Simple usually works better for me.
The 1960 Plymouth did not have a full frame as it was the first year for the unibody car. It had a front frame section that held the engine and front suspension and a rear frame section for the rear. These bolted to the car shell. The car is all planned out and will be street driven. 440 4bbl OD automatic, late model 8 3/4 with 3:55 gears, 4 wheel discs. For me it will be easier I believe, to just replace the front frame section. They made one for the /6 and a completely (how the engine mounts) different for the V8, even though they bolt in to the body the same.
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: aquamist60]
#1066563
08/31/11 08:22 PM
08/31/11 08:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 415
Indiana
Pentastar440
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 415
Indiana
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You might want to consider a K-member from a mid 80s 5th Avenue/Diplomat. That would give you the cradle mounts, transverse torsion bars, and disc brakes all in one unit. It could be bolted in or welded to your front subframe. The width should be close but could be fine tuned with the offset of your front wheels.
'65 Belvedere II - 446-Indy,727 transbrake,Dana 4.56
'38 Plymouth 4Dr - 408SixPack, A518, Dana60 4:10
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: aquamist60]
#1066565
08/31/11 08:57 PM
08/31/11 08:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,511
AZ
Mike P
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,511
AZ
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I tend to agree you are going to be going thru a lot of work with a clip swap and that you would save a bunch of time and labor (and possibly $ by modifying what you have.
I think some of the issues with changing out the front suspension you’re likely to run into include:
Torsion bar location/design. I’m not sure they went to front adjusters, but the early torsion bar cars had rear adjusters and somewhere along the line MOPAR went to front adjusters.
Your mounting points for the sub frame itself, core support, bumper, etc are all going to be different.
Due to the long cover over the steering shaft your steering column in the 60 may be a challenge to hook up.
None of these things are insurmountable, but it will take a good deal of fabrication and re-invention of the wheel, not to mention the time involved.
My own opinion would be to use what you have and upgrade as necessary. The simple way would be to find a 60 donor frame for the V8 frame mounts or simply fabricate new mounts after you cut out the 6 Cyl mounts out.
Besides the mounts you will probably also need the early style BB oil pan which has a bit shorter front sump (it will keep from cramming the engine back into the firewall and creating clearance issues with the linkage heater box etc.
AAJ makes a nice disc brake conversion kit to give you discs up front and if not equipped with PS or a sway bar these can also be retro fitted. Without knowing what transmission you’re going to use (there are no off the shelf automatic OD transmissions for the BB Chryslers) but as I recall the Imperial Club also used to sell a conversion that would allow the original push buttons to operate a 518 (the OD and LU are electrically controlled so that’s the easy part).
While the initial investment for finding and buying the correct conversion parts, from personal experience, buy the time you buy and rebuild the a JY front suspension you’re not going to save any money over the 60 conversion parts and you are still looking at all the conversion work.
Just my 2 cents.
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: rbstroker]
#1066567
09/01/11 03:25 PM
09/01/11 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 248
Ohio
aquamist60
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Quote:
Maybe this link will help. Seems that there is someone in the Music City Mopar Club familiar with '60 Plymouths.
http://1960plymouth.com/
That would be Moparts member Longram60. In another thread I had about my car, his recommendation was to change the front subframe from a /6 to a V8 subframe. That is just one of the many reasons I'm looking for a V8 subframe.
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: ralphie361]
#1066569
09/02/11 06:01 PM
09/02/11 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 248
Ohio
aquamist60
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Ohio
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Quote:
I'm not very familiar with how the older slants mounted but you might want to check with Shumacher to see if any of their conversion mounts might work. I would lean toward using your factory subframe because short of having someone fab one, I dont think there is an easy bolt in subframe. The conversion mounts may be at least a good starting point, and you could modify them from there.
I checked with Shumacher and also looked at their pics. They don't have anything that would work, even with a lot of modification. Their rep even felt a V8 subframe should bolt in with no mods.
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: Mike P]
#1066570
09/02/11 06:17 PM
09/02/11 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 248
Ohio
aquamist60
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Ohio
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Quote:
I tend to agree you are going to be going thru a lot of work with a clip swap and that you would save a bunch of time and labor (and possibly $ by modifying what you have.
I think some of the issues with changing out the front suspension you’re likely to run into include:
Torsion bar location/design. I’m not sure they went to front adjusters, but the early torsion bar cars had rear adjusters and somewhere along the line MOPAR went to front adjusters.
Your mounting points for the sub frame itself, core support, bumper, etc are all going to be different.
Due to the long cover over the steering shaft your steering column in the 60 may be a challenge to hook up.
None of these things are insurmountable, but it will take a good deal of fabrication and re-invention of the wheel, not to mention the time involved.
My own opinion would be to use what you have and upgrade as necessary. The simple way would be to find a 60 donor frame for the V8 frame mounts or simply fabricate new mounts after you cut out the 6 Cyl mounts out.
Besides the mounts you will probably also need the early style BB oil pan which has a bit shorter front sump (it will keep from cramming the engine back into the firewall and creating clearance issues with the linkage heater box etc.
AAJ makes a nice disc brake conversion kit to give you discs up front and if not equipped with PS or a sway bar these can also be retro fitted. Without knowing what transmission you’re going to use (there are no off the shelf automatic OD transmissions for the BB Chryslers) but as I recall the Imperial Club also used to sell a conversion that would allow the original push buttons to operate a 518 (the OD and LU are electrically controlled so that’s the easy part).
While the initial investment for finding and buying the correct conversion parts, from personal experience, buy the time you buy and rebuild the a JY front suspension you’re not going to save any money over the 60 conversion parts and you are still looking at all the conversion work.
Just my 2 cents.
Going by the factory parts manual the V8 subframe is an exact bolt in, including the T-bar mounts, core support, bumper, mounting points. The dimensions are exactly the same between the /6 & the V8. The ONLY difference is the size/rating of the torsion bars, (other than where the motor mounts go.) The steering column is the same as far as stick to stick and automatic to automatic. It is a direct bolt in for the V8 into the /6 car. I already have a complete 4 wheel disc kit. The guy that builds my race tranny's has already built a BB 727 with overdrive and it is sitting next to the 440. He built one for his 440 powered pickup that he uses to pull his race car and enclosed trailer with no problems.
There are some items like some of the trim, floor pans, rocker panels that I don't have yet or haven't put on yet. It needs some body work as we have dis-assembled most of the car down to where we can still roll it around.
Which brings me back to my original question. Does anybody know where a full size 1960 Plymouth is that came with a SB V8 or a BB V8 that I could get the front subframe from? Thanks, Larry.
Last edited by aquamist60; 09/02/11 06:34 PM.
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Re: 1960 Plymouth frame
[Re: aquamist60]
#1066571
09/02/11 08:59 PM
09/02/11 08:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,511
AZ
Mike P
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,511
AZ
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Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you were looking for a later front stub to interchange. Best bet would be John Fowley at Big M Automotive. He’s in California, so shipping might be a deal killer, but he’s a good guy to deal with. http://www.bigmauto.com/
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
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