Ok, real numbers - IIRC I was looking at a 2yr old low miles bench seat Cutlass at 18,900 or so. The new one priced 21-22 and with all incentives I was at 17,500. They could only go down 1000 or so on the used one. Who knows, maybe they overpaid wholesale or took a hit on a trade-in? Maybe they could have went down to 17,300 after hours of negotiation? They were pushing the new, I got to choose bucket seats from a row of cars, and went home with no worries.

For Ram, maybe the 2017 pig nostrils aren't selling well and they're really pushing them out for the 2018 refresh. Maybe corporate is vying to pass Chevy that month. It's at least worth a look over used.