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Re: Wrecked the car today! [Re: THE GLASS MAN] #997286
05/24/11 01:40 PM
05/24/11 01:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,475
SW Ohio
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cgall Offline
top fuel
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,475
SW Ohio
Didn't look too bad for the wild ride it went on. I kinda got the willies on my next run when I saw the black tracks go from the left lane around 1/2 turn and into the right wall.

It didn't slow Lonnie down much, I saw him Sunday driving 3 different cars.

Re: Wrecked the car today! [Re: THE GLASS MAN] #997287
05/24/11 08:59 PM
05/24/11 08:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
wheelsup68dart Offline OP
master
wheelsup68dart  Offline OP
master

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Before a wildfire spreads and anyone wonders about the facts. My Saturday morning time run at the Mo-Power classic event ended in disaster. After making what I thought was an outstanding run thru the 1/4 mile 9.57@ 138.17(New best MPH), after I lifted at the stripe and went for the brakes my car went into what I would describe as engine braking(jake brake) and began to decelerate hard, had enough time to look to see oil pressure good and then rear tire lock up @ approx 90mph car was briefly perpendicular to the retaining wall before it rotated a little more and left front into wall bouncing left rear into wall. Left front fender is a loss and quarter gonna need extensive work, but did not strike the wheels and all frame work okay, did not even bounce me around in the seat. I am sure there are some that took pictures, and it is okay to post them, but long story short I am just fine, now need to find out the root cause. Suspect trans failure of some sort and there was trans fluid leaking after I came to a stop. Thanks to everyone that checked on me, and I WILL BE BACK!


Sorry to hear you kissed the wall, and I see here on Moparts that you have gotten 39 man hugs but no one asking if they can help you out. I always help out my customers when they crash my fiberglass parts. Give me a call here at Sled City Fiberglass 1-614-875-0369




Thanks Larry, you will probably hear from me soon, I was planning a furthur inspection of the car up at my Dads to see what I may be able to get away with still.

Re: Wrecked the car today! [Re: wheelsup68dart] #997288
05/25/11 12:31 AM
05/25/11 12:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
4
408strokerdart Offline
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408strokerdart  Offline
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Posts: 3,456
Out West
Take some time to look at "everything". Better to be safe. Still interested to see what the cause was.

Re: Wrecked the car today! [Re: cgall] #997289
05/26/11 10:23 PM
05/26/11 10:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 189
Newark, OH
springers340dart Offline
member
springers340dart  Offline
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Posts: 189
Newark, OH
Quote:

It didn't slow Lonnie down much, I saw him Sunday driving 3 different cars.


He was a busy guy sunday!! not bad at all bottom bulbing! good job bro! you'll have yours bad out soon!!

Re: Wrecked the car today! [Re: springers340dart] #997290
05/27/11 01:43 PM
05/27/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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BobR  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
Check the engine for over-rev damage.

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: BobR] #997291
05/29/11 01:00 AM
05/29/11 01:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
wheelsup68dart Offline OP
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wheelsup68dart  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
Well, progress has been made. Yesterday I managed to get converter out of car to get to Jason Brock at quickdraw to check it over for damage and install a new ring gear. This morning I started my day a 6 AM and drove the 75 miles to Kilbuck(BFE) to have the converter looked at. Jason cut it open on the spot and we saw perfect components and no internal damage. Off to Norwalk for my new Hoosier 32x14's to replace the flat spotted tires (75 more miles) Tires replace and headed to Dads to work on car. (60 more miles) Made it to his house at 12:30. Removed differential cover and inspected ring and pinion. Everything looked brand new, removed wilwoods and pulled axels. No twists in splines and axels looked like new. While disassembling I noticed that the rotors and pads looked very coarse and grooved. Decided car would not go back together with these components not replaced. Drove to Jegs and back (100 more miles) and replaced the rotors and pads in rear. While I was gone Dad tore down the transmission for autopsy. That is where the following was found.

It would appear as though the transbrake engaged causing the trans to lock up. After getting the back end back on the ground I started to line up the replacement fender for front end. Fender is generally mocked up and ready to install Dzus tabs. I need to align the front fenders a bit as the structure is bent about a 1/4" to the right and the hood does not fit quite square just yet. I ran out of time to get more work done tonight as i had to get home(45 more miles). A long day closes and a little relief in finding a failed component. Not quite sure what caused the brake to lock, but kinda figure if it was electrical I shoulda seen the brake release after the delay in the box ran out. Does anyone know if the Tranzact pro brake is even capable of elecrically engaging the transbrake when in high gear?

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: wheelsup68dart] #997292
05/29/11 02:03 AM
05/29/11 02:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL  Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
It was great seeing ya today

Sounds like you may have found it but I'm stumped as to why the brake would have engaged.

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: WILD BILL] #997293
05/29/11 09:19 AM
05/29/11 09:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,955
United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Offline
Too Many Posts
tboomer  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,955
United Socialist States of Ame...
Thats a tuff one,Lonnie...Can you guys test everything to see if a short somewhere may have caused the brake to engage? That would have scared the hell out of me!!


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: tboomer] #997294
05/29/11 11:28 AM
05/29/11 11:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
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Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
A guy that builds race transmissions once told me that certain trans brakes can lock up because of a grounding problem, can't remember what brand he was changing out because of that though.


it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: wheelsup68dart] #997295
05/29/11 11:50 AM
05/29/11 11:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
Quote:

While I was gone Dad tore down the transmission for autopsy. That is where the following was found.

It would appear as though the transbrake engaged causing the trans to lock up.


Holy cow! That sounds like a nightmare come to life.
Scary

We need a discussion of what goes on when the transbrake button is pushed in relation to the gear selector position, etc. The basics should be the same for all TF transbrakes, but the details of how they do it (tap the pressure) may be different.

Now why the solenoid engaged is another issue.


Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: 440Jim] #997296
05/29/11 12:26 PM
05/29/11 12:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

While I was gone Dad tore down the transmission for autopsy. That is where the following was found.

It would appear as though the transbrake engaged causing the trans to lock up.


Holy cow! That sounds like a nightmare come to life.
Scary

We need a discussion of what goes on when the transbrake button is pushed in relation to the gear selector position, etc. The basics should be the same for all TF transbrakes, but the details of how they do it (tap the pressure) may be different.

Now why the solenoid engaged is another issue.






Not being a tranny guru but to my understanding it
SHOULD NOT have done anything... he was in high gear
and in my trans it ONLY works in low gear... I have
hit the button when in second and high just to see
if anything would happen.... nothing happened... (in the pits)
mine is a T/A manual reverse NO low band apply...
I am wondering if a chunk of metal broke free from
something else and got wedged in the band/drum area
then its a welding process due to friction


Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: MR_P_BODY] #997297
05/29/11 01:27 PM
05/29/11 01:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
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Posts: 16,928
NC
Lonnie, is that a 904 or 727, front or rear drum and band burned up?

Mike, does the TA brake go into reverse with the gear selector in both R and N ?
Just trying to figure out what passage is tapped for the pressure and what it engages in each selector position.
Interesting thought about something broke and wedged the linkage (band?).

Anyone else with other brands?

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: 440Jim] #997298
05/29/11 01:36 PM
05/29/11 01:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
Jim, the TA brake uses the gear selector for reverse. No need to push the button.

I never tried the button in N to see what would happen though.

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: WILD BILL] #997299
05/29/11 02:02 PM
05/29/11 02:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
4
408strokerdart Offline
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Out West
Glad most everything checked out ok. I am stumped about the trans brake (if that is indeed the issue).

Try not to wrinkle my fender....

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: 408strokerdart] #997300
05/29/11 08:28 PM
05/29/11 08:28 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mi.
G-Money1320 Offline
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Posts: 1,675
Mi.
Quote:

Glad most everything checked out ok. I am stumped about the trans brake (if that is indeed the issue).

Try not to wrinkle my fender....


Too late Brian, he already has it Its a good thing when you find a component that has caused the problem instead of chasing ghost issues. Hope you get it all back together and remedy any electrical gremlins that might have helped cause this!!


416 stroker from Nick at Compu-flow. 11.14 in full street trim. Seems like a new best every time out.
11.06 open headers----so far!!
Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: G-Money1320] #997301
05/30/11 12:21 AM
05/30/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
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Posts: 916
MB,CAN
I'm not familiar with all trans brake valve bodies but I'm fairly certain that they all apply the front clutch as the locking member. When the car is staged and the shifter is in low, (LBA apply in this case) the rear clutch is on as well as the rear band. When the trans brake is applied it engages the front clutch which locks the whole trans up. When the button is released, the front clutch releases and you launch in low. In high gear, the front clutch is applied as well as the rear clutch, so engaging the t-brake button in high should do nothing as the front clutch is already on. I would look in the rear servo area for an issue. If the rear band applied in high, this would lock the trans up and the band and drum are pretty beat up by the pictures.

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: PC-CHARGER] #997302
05/30/11 12:36 AM
05/30/11 12:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
The rear band must also be applied along with the front clutch for the trans brake to work. Otherwise you'd just have high gear. My T/A brake says it has a timed release of the rear band. How it works though I don't know as I've never really looked into it in depth to see how the fluid is routed through the valve body.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: Guitar Jones] #997303
05/30/11 12:42 AM
05/30/11 12:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
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Posts: 916
MB,CAN
Depending on the valve body, you may or may not need the rear band applied. The rear band and the sprag clutch hold the rear planetary and either or both can be used along with the rear clutch to get low gear. LBA valve bodies use the rear band while non LBA valve bodies use the sprag. Adding a third member into the mix (the front clutch)locks the whole assembly thus the brake action.

Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: PC-CHARGER] #997304
05/30/11 12:50 AM
05/30/11 12:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
If you have the front and rear clutches applied you have high gear, the over running clutch (sprag) will not hold, you must have the rear band and front clutch applied and the rear clutch released for reverse. Keeping the rear clutch applied is what locks it.

Granted you don't need rear band apply for 1st gear but you must have it for reverse. So the brake must apply the rear band and the front clutch while the rear clutch is engaged.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Wrecked the car today! **Diag** Pics [Re: Guitar Jones] #997305
05/30/11 01:11 AM
05/30/11 01:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Chris'sBarracuda Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Man am I glad I run a Glide..


Chris..

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