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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Quicktree]
#996675
05/22/11 11:27 AM
05/22/11 11:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 449
Wisconsin
sjs64polara
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 449
Wisconsin
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I wouldnt even post the dyno sheet! no point! no one will belive it/you regardless....... 
thats because you see so many over inflated numbers. how many 700hp 10 second cars have wee seen? it's a tool nothing more, the track will tell the hp.
How would the numbers get inflated, besides bar stool talk  The dyno is calibrated SuperFlow. I would think they all should be within 5% of each other or so The software prints out the numbers. I won’t retype them, I’ll just scan a copy of the print out. Come on guys………. It’s a HEMI , I’m not talking about a SBC here.  Where’s the love on this board. 
there sre so many things they can adjust to get the numbers they want. I'll let the dyno experts explain that to you. big numbers sell motors, until they reach the track...
Ok understood, My family and friends have been working with this company for years so we would never change builders even if it had a lot less HP. We consider Tom and all at NVR very close friends. We’re not ego number driven people, we’re just out to have a good time. As I stated in my second post, its only a number. I didn’t think this would cause a war. I must say, its kind of fun watching it
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: sjs64polara]
#996676
05/22/11 11:35 AM
05/22/11 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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One thing that jumps out at me is how close the HP peak and the torque peak RPMs are together... to me something is wrong.... I know it doesnt matter... just as long as your dad is happy with the engine when its in the car 
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#996677
05/22/11 11:40 AM
05/22/11 11:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
One thing that jumps out at me is how close the HP
peak and the torque peak RPMs are together... to me
something is wrong.... I know it doesnt matter... just
as long as your dad is happy with the engine when its
in the car
 it sounds like a great build and cool as hell, good luck with it  post some pics when you can.
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Quicktree]
#996678
05/22/11 11:43 AM
05/22/11 11:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 449
Wisconsin
sjs64polara
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 449
Wisconsin
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Quote:
Quote:
One thing that jumps out at me is how close the HP
peak and the torque peak RPMs are together... to me
something is wrong.... I know it doesnt matter... just
as long as your dad is happy with the engine when its
in the car
it sounds like a great build and cool as hell, good luck with it post some pics when you can.
As I stated before, I may have screwed up the torque numbers. I'll get copies and pictures next week.
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: sjs64polara]
#996679
05/22/11 11:45 AM
05/22/11 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
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One thing that jumps out at me is how close the HP
peak and the torque peak RPMs are together... to me
something is wrong.... I know it doesnt matter... just
as long as your dad is happy with the engine when its
in the car
it sounds like a great build and cool as hell, good luck with it post some pics when you can.
As I stated before, I may have screwed up the torque numbers. I'll get copies and pictures next week.
the numbers really mean nothing, the cool factor is a bigger deal in my book don't worry about it.
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: sjs64polara]
#996680
05/22/11 12:28 PM
05/22/11 12:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Even if the numbers are inflated,(and I am not saying they are),it sounds like a cool build.
People will always question dyno numbers,and say things like "we don't race dyno's".It is usually from people that don't own them or use them.Don't sweat it.
Keith
Last edited by Dunnuck Racing; 05/22/11 03:13 PM.
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: HotRodDave]
#996682
05/22/11 12:57 PM
05/22/11 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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My Dads 354 Hemi just got off the dyno.
Here are some of the specs
354 truck block
HOT HEADS Aluminum heads and tunnel ram
9.5:1 pump gas motor
472 [Email]228@.050[/Email] flat tappet cam
Ken Jones 650 Holleys
1.75 headers
600 hp @ 5000 rpm and 625 ft of torque around 4500 rpm
Motor is going in a 29 Chrysler Coupe
The old man already said he wants to borrow a set of my slicks. Great.... I can already see parts breaking
WOW, big thanks to Tom Nickerson at NVR Racing Engines in Bulter Wi
600 is a very believable number to me, just not at 5000 RPM in a 354 cube engine 625 tq is not really possible from that small of a motor NA, that is 1.77 lbs per inch, not gonna find any other motors doing that.
`so you think you can get 600hp with that cam and compression 
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Quicktree]
#996683
05/22/11 01:33 PM
05/22/11 01:33 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 174
Oklahoma
hemiiroc
member
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member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 174
Oklahoma
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Quote:
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My Dads 354 Hemi just got off the dyno.
Here are some of the specs
354 truck block
HOT HEADS Aluminum heads and tunnel ram
9.5:1 pump gas motor
472 [Email]228@.050[/Email] flat tappet cam
Ken Jones 650 Holleys
1.75 headers
600 hp @ 5000 rpm and 625 ft of torque around 4500 rpm
Motor is going in a 29 Chrysler Coupe
The old man already said he wants to borrow a set of my slicks. Great.... I can already see parts breaking
WOW, big thanks to Tom Nickerson at NVR Racing Engines in Bulter Wi
600 is a very believable number to me, just not at 5000 RPM in a 354 cube engine 625 tq is not really possible from that small of a motor NA, that is 1.77 lbs per inch, not gonna find any other motors doing that.
`so you think you can get 600hp with that cam and compression
Sounds like someone just made up some numbers to throw out there. 625ft/lbs out of 354 inches is not possible n/a and 600hp @5000 is 630-ft/lb so it's supposed peak torque wouldn't even be at 4500
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: HotRodDave]
#996686
05/22/11 02:14 PM
05/22/11 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My Dads 354 Hemi just got off the dyno.
Here are some of the specs
354 truck block
HOT HEADS Aluminum heads and tunnel ram
9.5:1 pump gas motor
472 [Email]228@.050[/Email] flat tappet cam
Ken Jones 650 Holleys
1.75 headers
600 hp @ 5000 rpm and 625 ft of torque around 4500 rpm
Motor is going in a 29 Chrysler Coupe
The old man already said he wants to borrow a set of my slicks. Great.... I can already see parts breaking
WOW, big thanks to Tom Nickerson at NVR Racing Engines in Bulter Wi
600 is a very believable number to me, just not at 5000 RPM in a 354 cube engine 625 tq is not really possible from that small of a motor NA, that is 1.77 lbs per inch, not gonna find any other motors doing that.
`so you think you can get 600hp with that cam and compression
Compression yes, cam no.
not saying it couldn't be done but I sure would like to see you do it 
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Thumperdart]
#996687
05/22/11 02:23 PM
05/22/11 02:23 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 174
Oklahoma
hemiiroc
member
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member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 174
Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
One thing that jumps out at me is how close the HP
peak and the torque peak RPMs are together... to me
something is wrong.... I know it doesnt matter... just
as long as your dad is happy with the engine when its
in the car
Funny you should say this cos my chassis numbers were 485tq and 487hp.............so what`s WRONG w/these kind of numbers. Oh, nice hemi by the way. 
Were the peaks within 500rpm of each other? Makimg almost the same #'s is fine but not usually at almost the same rpm.
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#996689
05/22/11 02:52 PM
05/22/11 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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HP=(Torque X RPM)/5250
This is why at 5,250 RPM the HP and torque are the same number. Someone mentioned that the HP and RPM you stated are incorrect. Here is why. This would make your peak torque higher than what you stated. But, I understand you said the torque number could be off. Maybe. Probably the RPM for peak HP lower than what it really was.
I love those early hemis. The part I love the most in this tread is the weak bottom end comments. They are very similar to the small blocks these guys are running. Would love to see the reproduction guys reproduce a race version of these heads for the LA blocks.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: sjs64polara]
#996690
05/22/11 03:01 PM
05/22/11 03:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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edit: This should be good. Ever hear someone say "There goes another Nicker-bomb!" at the track? It used to be pretty common but things may have changed.
Does name calling make you feel manlier
It's not name calling...it's history. Tighten up man. That said it sounds like a cool motor, let's see some pictures of it. Did NVR machine/build the engine? 'Just curious...
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Jeremiah]
#996692
05/22/11 03:16 PM
05/22/11 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
emarine01
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: Thumperdart]
#996693
05/22/11 03:31 PM
05/22/11 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
One thing that jumps out at me is how close the HP
peak and the torque peak RPMs are together... to me
something is wrong.... I know it doesnt matter... just
as long as your dad is happy with the engine when its
in the car
Funny you should say this cos my chassis numbers were 485tq and 487hp.............so what`s WRONG w/these kind of numbers. Oh, nice hemi by the way.
Were the peaks within 500rpm of each other? Makimg almost the same #'s is fine but not usually at almost the same rpm.
Actually my #`s were,485.16hp and 484.94tq@ 6100rpm`s............. Was told loose verts can give these kinds of readings.
On a chassis dyno with a loose conv you can get all
types of numbers... but on a engine dyno you shouldnt
see the numbers that close... should be more like
a 1500 rpm spread
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Re: 354 HEMI off the dyno
[Re: emarine01]
#996694
05/22/11 04:08 PM
05/22/11 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
TrWaters
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
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Danny sent this to me before heading to the 09 EMC. This was after a year of tuning. QUOTE Here’s our final pull, corrected, in very good air with a conservative (13:1 A/F avg) tune up. hp @ 3000: 253.5, @ 7000: 608, avg 491.8 - peak 641 @ 6400/6500 tq @ 3000: 443.8, @ 7000: 455.8, avg 513 - peak 569 @ 5200 different pulls, best hp peaks - hp: 647 (1.77 per cid) , tq: 572 (1.57 per cid) Engine appears solid. Very high valve spring pressures, but the springs are what we had at the shop after the valve spring snaffuzzle. We can get a higher score on the first pull by leaning it out, but it falls off more in the two subsequent pulls. We don’t exactly know the happy medium, but have a three day road trip to get if all figured out. lol All in all, we’re very happy with the engine, but sure wish we were smart enough to make the Webers meter properly. We have the A/F close, and have enough Weber Savvy to move it (more or less) up/down. We’re rich/weak at the hit, but that might be partially due to too much camshaft. We wanted it to peak at around 6500, and nailed it, so we were hesitant to stab in a smaller camshaft. It would probably have bolstered the low end at the expense of top end. Rob Peter to pay Paul. We could have tried the other cam, but it would have required more pulls (engine has 99 since the last freshen up), and if it didn’t improve the score, we would have to swap back and show up at Lima with an untested/unfired engine. QUOTE. Anyhow.... I dont know if the OP engine made 600 or not. And this is probably a bit OT, but I do have a good idea what it takes to make 650 hp from a 354 early hemi. Aside from the HH aluminum heads (which have been out for about 15 years now) and a couple of intakes, there really isnt anything "new" about these engines....except maybe a better (technological) understanding of how power is made
TR Waters
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Both torque and HP are a mathimatical calculation based on the strain gauge, not seperate meters or measuring devices 
