Quote:

---

Good statement bad point of view the price of a 1200 hp motor is way out of shape!
That's why I am using a power adder! Just like the flow numbers on them but just can't pull the trigger on the price! Really not bitching about the price of going fast just asking are they worth it? Cause right now it's a coin flip! Need to put 3150 pounds on drag radials in the 4.70 range in the 1/8 so it takes about 1100 to the ground!

---

Quote:

---

1231 hp. Bracket motor here. I will agree there is more to be had with(hp.) other brands, but you are very limited what can be done with a 4.80 bore center.

---

thats the crux of the matter...stretch the Pred and it will match the competition. If Indy was serious they would do that...and provide blocks.

Quote:

---

BAE heads new bare are around $6000. Don't forget around the same for complete rockers. $1600 for bare intake.Plus all of the smaller parts. There are places that race heads up and if you are a mopar guy you are 2 steps back as soon as you start.I have to thank the guys who push the motor combo's and find new things that work for us mopar racers.

---

With my latest venture into the Predator world, I am learning many things. One is that big inch Hemis, 632 and Chevys, bracket blower motors that are durable and their componants, are very expensive. Less expensive options would be used engines, turbo, and nos. But if you think a new Chevy 632 bracket/heads up 1200-1300 is less trhan 35.000, you need to just look in the Wally guide to see what Schmit, Reher, charges for these motors. And they make them by the dozens with volume purchases on parts. The Mopar guy is a loyalist. We don't have near the options the GM guys do. That's why the guys who develop parts for us, deserve respect. They do it for the same reason, they are Mopar loyalists. Only it costs them more than the rest of us to be Mopar guys. And they have to wait years at times to recoup the money laid out for this development. So you have to ask yourself if you can live with a GM motor in your car. You might save a little but not much and then you have what everybody else has. Or you can be different and build a Mopar. The choice is ours, but give our parts producers credit. It's just as hard for them to choose against building GM race parts. And the reason no one is mass producing 4.84 and 5 inch bors spacing blocks and heads for Mopars by the dozens, is because the Mopar crowd would whine about the price. Just ask the guys at Indy. Maybe that's why they treat people the way they do. Hey I'm a whiner too, but I am a Mopar guy and have been for 45 years.

Quote:

---

Good statement bad point of view the price of a 1200 hp motor is way out of shape!
That's why I am using a power adder! Just like the flow numbers on them but just can't pull the trigger on the price! Really not bitching about the price of going fast just asking are they worth it? Cause right now it's a coin flip! Need to put 3150 pounds on drag radials in the 4.70 range in the 1/8 so it takes about 1100 to the ground!

---

Quote:

---

Love the numbers but hate the price ,Well you can build a hemi for those prices!Are they so high cause of indy buying them out?

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

BAE heads new bare are around $6000. Don't forget around the same for complete rockers. $1600 for bare intake.Plus all of the smaller parts. There are places that race heads up and if you are a mopar guy you are 2 steps back as soon as you start.I have to thank the guys who push the motor combo's and find new things that work for us mopar racers.

---

With my latest venture into the Predator world, I am learning many things. One is that big inch Hemis, 632 and Chevys, bracket blower motors that are durable and their componants, are very expensive. Less expensive options would be used engines, turbo, and nos. But if you think a new Chevy 632 bracket/heads up 1200-1300 is less trhan 35.000, you need to just look in the Wally guide to see what Schmit, Reher, charges for these motors. And they make them by the dozens with volume purchases on parts. The Mopar guy is a loyalist. We don't have near the options the GM guys do. That's why the guys who develop parts for us, deserve respect. They do it for the same reason, they are Mopar loyalists. Only it costs them more than the rest of us to be Mopar guys. And they have to wait years at times to recoup the money laid out for this development. So you have to ask yourself if you can live with a GM motor in your car. You might save a little but not much and then you have what everybody else has. Or you can be different and build a Mopar. The choice is ours, but give our parts producers credit. It's just as hard for them to choose against building GM race parts. And the reason no one is mass producing 4.84 and 5 inch bors spacing blocks and heads for Mopars by the dozens, is because the Mopar crowd would whine about the price. Just ask the guys at Indy. Maybe that's why they treat people the way they do. Hey I'm a whiner too, but I am a Mopar guy and have been for 45 years.

---

Quote:

---

Well 965@ 3150 on drag radials is 5.10 in a fox body with a F2 blow thru on a small block no inner cooler! So looking to step up a big block combo.So 5" bore spacing is the key who makes it,Where can you but it?

---

Sonny Leanard and get your wallet out and cough!

Quote:

---

Well 965@ 3150 on drag radials is 5.10 in a fox body with a F2 blow thru on a small block no inner cooler! So looking to step up a big block combo.So 5" bore spacing is the key who makes it,Where can you but it?

---

Quote:

---

HP aint cheap, especially NA HP. Dont matter what brand in that case. Look into the mountain motor stuff. Thise are basically $1000+ per cube engines..

FWIW a set of 12 degeee Raptors are $7K just for the heads. That is for a comparable BB Chebbie head..I think you will find that the Predator stuff is in the same price ballpark as comparable heads for the other makes.

IMO if you are buying all new stuff trying to build 1200+hp naturally aspirated you are gonna spend similar money on all of them. Now the difference being you can find good used Chevy and Ferd stuff out there, not really much Mopar stuff out there. Also there are a few options for the bowtie guys to get there.

---

when it gets to this level, isn't it pretty much an aftermarket race engine? what is "chevy" in a Big Chief motor, or "Ford" in a Thor head motor, or for that matter "Mopar" in a predator head motor?

don't all the realy big (600 cube+) motors have non-stock bore spacing & deck heights? they all have aftermarket rotating assemblies, the heads don't really share any similarities to any production heads beyond they have valves, springs and ports, etc....

I guess I don't see what all the bellyaching is about when you get to that level of racing...

"chevy" "ford" and "mopar" really are irrelevant as far as the engines go...

just my

Quote:

---

From my perspective building a T/S motor it will be hard to compete $ for $ with a GM based mill. A buddy just picked up his T/S Camaro with a 632 Sunny's. 632 CID iron block and 1385 hp for around 40 K. That is alot of steam for 40 K just saying.

---

http://www.bearsperformanceproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=885

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

HP aint cheap, especially NA HP. Dont matter what brand in that case. Look into the mountain motor stuff. Thise are basically $1000+ per cube engines..

FWIW a set of 12 degeee Raptors are $7K just for the heads. That is for a comparable BB Chebbie head..I think you will find that the Predator stuff is in the same price ballpark as comparable heads for the other makes.

IMO if you are buying all new stuff trying to build 1200+hp naturally aspirated you are gonna spend similar money on all of them. Now the difference being you can find good used Chevy and Ferd stuff out there, not really much Mopar stuff out there. Also there are a few options for the bowtie guys to get there.

---

when it gets to this level, isn't it pretty much an aftermarket race engine? what is "chevy" in a Big Chief motor, or "Ford" in a Thor head motor, or for that matter "Mopar" in a predator head motor?

don't all the realy big (600 cube+) motors have non-stock bore spacing & deck heights? they all have aftermarket rotating assemblies, the heads don't really share any similarities to any production heads beyond they have valves, springs and ports, etc....

I guess I don't see what all the bellyaching is about when you get to that level of racing...

"chevy" "ford" and "mopar" really are irrelevant as far as the engines go...

just my

---

your right, they are all the same. The blocks uesd to be some of the difference but not anymore. It really just comes down to engineering savy, can the mopar guys or the ford guys engineer a "pro stock" type head as good as the chevy guys? Or vice-versa? Its what camp the winning motors come out. Thats where the competition is...so it really has nothing to do with the "brands" anymore. hope this makes a little sense anyway..thats my take on all this.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

From my perspective building a T/S motor it will be hard to compete $ for $ with a GM based mill. A buddy just picked up his T/S Camaro with a 632 Sunny's. 632 CID iron block and 1385 hp for around 40 K. That is alot of steam for 40 K just saying.

---

http://www.bearsperformanceproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=885

---

Well, I won't know the answer to that question until September. And you will all know the answer if you keep up with my postings as we go forward with my Predator project or make it to MATS in 2012. But I can tell you, the P/S hemi deal would be a labor intensive peice, and not really bracket equipment unless you like to change springs, check bearings, lifters etc. on a regular basis.
And as far as the 632 for 40K, they don't all run the same or make the same power as advertised, like any race motor. And I may not make 1385HP, and I won't spend 40K. Also, the horsepower may not be far off from that 1385HP number, it's all BS until in the car and making timeslips. I think I have the best guy building it (Steve Gill) and he races what he sells. There are other good engine builders to be sure, but I am confident we'll make good power at a reasonable price. It will also carry the Mopar banner, and reasonable was the question in the post. Just my