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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: MoparforLife]
#963781
04/01/11 10:55 PM
04/01/11 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,426
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,426
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
They use a very short valve spring and any added lift would be very marginal before coil bind. Get rid of them and use regular retainers and regular length springs if upgrading to bigger cam..
They are to help prevent valve and valve seat burnouts by keeping the valve in constant rotation in the guide allowing a different seating position each time the valve closes.
Well said...  Most readers will say throw it away not knowing that they do work and have reason to be there on certain applications.
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: dOc !]
#963784
04/02/11 07:56 PM
04/02/11 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
AFTER thinking about this post I had to go out to the barn and pull a rotator off a set of heads.....
DAMN that thing is trick ... there is some kind of "bearing" in there ....roller or ball.
Here in picture form. Not all were on truck engines many were on cars too. Did you notice how short the springs use with them are.
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: dOc !]
#963789
04/02/11 11:04 PM
04/02/11 11:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,426
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,426
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
I went out and found a well-used) HP spring(with the dampner) .. it appears to be the same height. definately wider though.
This is where the problem comes in. Intake springs will fit just fine but look out. You have to be very carefull and loaded spring rates should be checked.
Years back we had a shop do a valve job on a 79 318 power wagon. Within 60 miles it was towed back with a dropped exhaust valve. The heads were pulled and sent to a rebuilder for a un-biased opinion. Result was intake springs accidently installed on exhaust valves with rotators. The seat pressures were like doubled if not more as I remember.
Not sure on the physical heights between them.
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: MoparforLife]
#963790
04/02/11 11:26 PM
04/02/11 11:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
I am sure that the ones I have had off over the tears were shorter to compensate for the thick retainer.
...and I should make it very plain .. the springs I have here are certainly used. And those rotating retainers ARE much thicker .. but again ...it APPEARS that the keepers sit waaaay lower into the retainer itself.
Now I can NOT compare a "std" retainer on the exh valve because the stem size on the 1.50 exh valve is so much larger.
A side note ....I put the rotator on the HP spring ...and it fits fine.
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: NITROUSN]
#963791
04/02/11 11:32 PM
04/02/11 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
dropped exhaust valve. The heads were pulled and sent to a rebuilder for a un-biased opinion. Result was intake springs accidently installed on exhaust valves with rotators. The seat pressures were like doubled if not more as I remember.
Not sure on the physical heights between them.
So it BROKE the stem of the valve ? ...
I am going to have some EXTENSIVE work(DEporting and swirl work) done to these heads and I will be sure to have the cyl head guy check all open and closed pressures.
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: MoparforLife]
#963793
04/03/11 02:13 PM
04/03/11 02:13 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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 a stock exhast spring with rotator is shorter than the stock intake spring I had a machine shop mix one intake spring up on a valve job couple days later it snaped the end off the valve,locks and tip of valve still in the rotator when I tore it back down busted a piston,wiped the cyl walls out,suck piston into almost all other cyls I told and showed them the 8 shorter springs and the bigger intake springs when I droped them off for the valve job I will never use any more rotators when a rebuild or spring upgrade is at hand on mine 
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: MoparforLife]
#963794
04/04/11 04:05 AM
04/04/11 04:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Something is not right there, doc. We ave always used standard retainers on the valve when changing springs. Here is a picture of a result of using rotators with a small 485 lift cam. As there had been new valve installed on the job the good ones were reused on nondamaged heads. Have used standard retainers and compatible springs on many since.
Don ....NOT RIGHT ? ... I am a newbie at this. NEVER tried any type of R&D on these type heads ever before. I am learning as I am going-along.
That damage ...  ....what are you suggesting that the rotators did to cause that ?
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Re: exhaust valve rotaters
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#963795
04/04/11 04:18 AM
04/04/11 04:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,468
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
a stock exhast spring with rotator is shorter than the stock intake spring
I had a machine shop mix one intake spring up on a valve job
couple days later it snaped the end off the valve,locks and tip of valve still in the rotator when I tore it back down
busted a piston,wiped the cyl walls out,suck piston into almost all other cyls
I told and showed them the 8 shorter springs and the bigger intake springs when I droped them off for the valve job
I will never use any more rotators when a rebuild or spring upgrade is at hand on mine
Mike ....I have to ask you the same Q .... wassssupy ? ...
These are feeble low-lift cams... no chance of over-taxing the springs or coil-bind.... 
I have both of the spring in front of me ... the 413 exh VS(really a feeble looking piece) ...and then the HP spring with the dampner. Same height, same ID .... the rotators sits FINE in the HP spring .....
I like the idea of using the HP spring....to have more pressure on the cam to insure good contact and-TO INSURE good lifter movement ...PLUS with the inner dampner .. it prevent excess oil getting into the valve guides.
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