Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: polkat]
#931509
02/18/11 10:17 AM
02/18/11 10:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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maybe 2.2 turbo pistons. Go here, www.slantsix.org EDIT missed that you have been there, I'm surprised that they dont have a ton of knowledge on this. I dont even know if those heads are open or closed ch's
Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/18/11 10:27 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#931511
02/18/11 10:34 AM
02/18/11 10:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 411 Texas
vynn3
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 411
Texas
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Quote:
I'm surprised that they dont have a ton of knowledge on this. I dont even know if those heads are open or closed ch's
No closed chamber heads for slants. A few folks have made their own...
The 2.2 pistons work on the long-rod combo to increase compression and provide a better rod ratio, but don't do anything for quench.
Quench in a slant ain't gonna happen without a LOT of work and creativity.
vm
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: polkat]
#931513
02/18/11 07:44 PM
02/18/11 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Park Forest, IL
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Just throwing this out, but if you mill the head .100" and run a positive deck height piston your compression will be well over 12-1. With a 198 rod and 2.2 turbo pistons you will have a deck heght of -.025/.030, depending on whether your stock deck is unmolested or not. This will give you roughly 9.5-1 with a stock CC head and a Fel-Pro gasket. Stock is usually around 58cc. The turbo pistons have a dish in them and do create somewhat of a quench effect.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: polkat]
#931517
02/18/11 09:05 PM
02/18/11 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Park Forest, IL
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What are you actually trying to accomplish? A good MPG street motor or a performance build? You have to remember that you are dealing with a very small bore here. A lot of milling on the head increases compression like crazy. Cam choice will become pretty critical so you don't build too much cylider pressure. My motor has the head milled .065" and has the 198 rods, 2.2 turbo pistons about -.020" in the hole, and a Fel-Pro gasket. I am right under 11.5-1, and it is NOT pump gas friendly. I also run a cam with 300* advertised duration and .558" gross lift. My pistons are KB Silvolites. They have a narrow ring on them too. There is a deal on Wiseco pistons and K-1 rods on www.slantsix.org . When the deal started they were about the same as rebuilding a set of 198 rods and using KB pistons. Not sure how much they are now.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: polkat]
#931518
02/18/11 09:21 PM
02/18/11 09:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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You'd want tighter than 45-50. I think w the long rods/2.2 turbo pistons you could mill the head/block enough to get .035-.040" but you'd have to do some valve relief milling on the pistons as said to get the CR pump gas friendly. Polkat I think your plan is solid, to get an efficient /6 (which means quench) for an economy build. Holler what you end up w
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: slantzilla]
#931520
02/19/11 08:30 AM
02/19/11 08:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Swears too much
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
One other small point, the Slant head was designed to work with 170 cubic inches. It was never improved when they went to the 225.
Wow, really...??? Not that i've ever heard ov someone saying this number was better than that number, but ONE design? That blows. No offense to you slantzilla, but honestly i dont understand why anyone even bothers with these things. They are so huge and heavy, and still at best 225 cid. I can see restorations, or weird builds, but anything thats intended to run fast, or be efficient... it just seems so utterly hamstrung by the design limitations. Boost or nitrous is another matter, but N/A...???
My brother spent his new family into poverty trying to do something with his slant six in a 69 Valiant. It was neat, really neat, but even after buying the whole Clifford catalog and getting creative where that failed, it was getting beat by Neons, Conquests, Hondas, and he can definitely drive...
My Challenger definitely qualifies as a survivor... its a slant 6/3spd car, and i want to drive this thing so bad i've almost entertained the idea ov building a budget 225 for it from the numbers engine... just to save myself the swap hassles. But then i figure i wont have half the goodies he had, plus another 300lbs...
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#931521
02/19/11 10:30 AM
02/19/11 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Park Forest, IL
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His first mistake was buying the whole Clifford catalog. With a few exceptions, most of Clifford's stuff is useless. Building a small CI motor is not just a throw money at it and it will be fast. Why do I do it? Because I have had tons of big and small block cars and wanted something different. I used to park my 15 second Duster next to my buddy's 10 second 383 Demon at the track, and for every person who came and looked at his car, 10 looked at mine. I have also run 12.0@110 in a Slant street car on nitrous.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#931522
02/19/11 06:39 PM
02/19/11 06:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 411 Texas
vynn3
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 411
Texas
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Quote:
but honestly i dont understand why anyone even bothers with these things.
You weren't talking to me, but I'll throw my $.02 in. To some people, old cars aren't all about going as fast as possible for the least amount of money. My mildly-modified slant goes as fast as I'll ever need it to. When/if if ever doesn't, I'll add a turbo.
Oh, and I prefer the SOUND of an inline six. V-8's sounded okay when I was a teenager, but every old pickup in TX has glasspacks and duals... <yawn>.
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: vynn3]
#931523
02/22/11 10:20 AM
02/22/11 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
but honestly i dont understand why anyone even bothers with these things.
You weren't talking to me, but I'll throw my $.02 in. To some people, old cars aren't all about going as fast as possible for the least amount of money. My mildly-modified slant goes as fast as I'll ever need it to. When/if if ever doesn't, I'll add a turbo.
Oh, and I prefer the SOUND of an inline six. V-8's sounded okay when I was a teenager, but every old pickup in TX has glasspacks and duals... <yawn>.
Oh i understand that just fine... we deal in (true, not trendy) rat rods here. Its not always about speed. But as much as Mopar guys want to wave the Mopar flag, the factory just did not give y'all much to work with here at all.
One ov the most memorable and just plain badass cars i've ever seen at the track was an early Maverick with a big Ford I-6 (and a 5-speed stick?) in it. This thing was scary fast, loud as all hell and just plain weird. Right out ov a Mad Max movie set. And i could not stop checking it out. But it was a BIG 6. 300cid seems to stick in my head, but i honestly dont remember. My brother's car had a neat sound, for a 6... big goofy header and a Borla... But i'm a V8 guy. A V8 at full howl sounds better than a chick saying 'yes'...
PS - its the glasspacks. Those got old when i was 18...
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#931524
02/22/11 10:26 AM
02/22/11 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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FWIW, a former co worker was an engineer on that 300 CID I-6 ford had in their trucks. when they developed the EFI for it, they had to detune it, because it made more power than the optional 302 V-8.....
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: slantzilla]
#931525
02/22/11 10:31 AM
02/22/11 10:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
His first mistake was buying the whole Clifford catalog. With a few exceptions, most of Clifford's stuff is useless. Building a small CI motor is not just a throw money at it and it will be fast.
I was not there when he was planning this thing, i was brought into the picture when he got desperate enough to actually ask his Mopar guy brother why his hotrod was getting embarrassed by slow imports. I did port the head though, without going nuts there i can say at least that part was decent. Maybe you've gotta REALLY hog those things out...???
He also bought a Comp cam, the big solid in the catalog, which i tried to steer him away from. Not knowing anything about slant sixes then, i just thought i'd compare it to what i'd expect from a 225cid V8. It still came up short. Something in that combo was drastically wrong.
Quote:
Why do I do it? Because I have had tons of big and small block cars and wanted something different. I used to park my 15 second Duster next to my buddy's 10 second 383 Demon at the track, and for every person who came and looked at his car, 10 looked at mine.
I have also run [Email]12.0@110[/Email] in a Slant street car on nitrous.
Yup. His Valiant got the stares, and when the hood was open the crowds would form. If anything he definitely had that six looking pretty cool. Painting it bright slime green probably helped...
I'm sure my Challenger would stop traffic at a show or in the pits with its six, but i just cannot handle a slow car (or that sound i suppose).
Curious though... How much power can be made from a basic budget slant six build...??? Lets say port the head, big cam (a good cam, maybe a custom), quench, maximum pump-gas compression, well-designed header (i'll make my own) and race exhaust, a good intake and carb. No NOS or boost. Could you make 300HP N/A without getting really tricky or pricey...??? In a 2800lb car with a 4speed and gears that might not actually be embarrassing...
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: polkat]
#931526
02/22/11 01:24 PM
02/22/11 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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If you plan to do more research, you might consider writing a letter to Willem Weertman who is now retired and seems to want to pass on knowledge to a new generation http://www.allpar.com/corporate/bios/weertman.htmlnotice the bit about the Slant 6 diesel engine project sample quote Q: The various programs to modify the Slant Six that I have read include things such as a turbo charged version and another aluminum version and a fuel-injected version, is there anything that you can tell me about those and what instigated them and why they were not pursued? I think I mention both the diesel and turbo versions in the book. The diesel version was a pretty neat program when we were working on that one. It was quite well developed; we had a 4-cylinder version of the Slant Six engine for use, it was a turbo-charged 4-cylinder diesel version of the Slant Six engine. It was no longer slanted though. I’m sure it was upright. But the diesel version of the Slant Six was slanted. That program died when the interest in diesel engines in the U.S. died following the unsuccessful launching of General Motors diesel version of an automotive engine. That gave the diesels a bad reputation in the field and the market dried up and with that we quit our diesel program. That cessation of our own diesel Slant Six program was a decision by Lee Iaccoca. He figured the market wasn’t there and we shouldn’t be spending any money in that direction and he was right and we just stopped working.
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Re: Obtaining quench in a slant 6?
[Re: 360view]
#931527
02/22/11 10:14 PM
02/22/11 10:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Park Forest, IL
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300 is doable, but I'm not sure I would call it a "budget" build. 300 N/A is also getting right on the ragged edge of a streetable Slant. More is not always better when porting a Slant head. Be careful when choosing valve sizes too. What makes for great flow on a flow bench does not necessarily work on an engine because of the small bore. Dig around on www.slantsix.org and you will find an engine build matrix that details many of the motors we have done.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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