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440 Starter Problems #924981
02/09/11 09:56 PM
02/09/11 09:56 PM
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Posts: 474
Louisiana
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duckblind Offline OP
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Louisiana
I just converted a 68 charger from a auto to 4-spd. I tried to start the car up for the first time today with the 4 spd. It has been a couple of years since I cranked the engine. When I tried to start it (battery fully charged) the starter barely turned the engine over and the starter also makes a bunch of clicking noises (or at least it sounds like it is the starter) sounding like something went bad with the starter. In the process or doing the conversion, I pulled the engine. When I was putting the engine back in, I shortened the stud that the large positive wire connects to on the starter because it was pretty much touching the block? Could this be the cause of the problem? I find it hard to believe that the starter just stopped working even though it has been 2 years since it has been used. I pulled the inspection cover off the transmission and the starter gear is fully engaging but there is just a whole lot of racket and the flywheel turns awfully slow. I don't mind changing the starter but being that it is fairly involved (disconnecting header, jacking up engine etc) I want to make sure that the starter is the problem. Could it be something else?

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924982
02/09/11 10:02 PM
02/09/11 10:02 PM
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Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
The racket is the clicking from the starter? Clean all the batt terminals/cables


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924983
02/09/11 10:14 PM
02/09/11 10:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Granite Bay CA
Whats the chance that you have the trans linkage adjusted wrong ? It happens. The trans may have two gears partially engaged. Try spinning the motor with the clutch depressed. Also try spinning the driveshaft with the engine off and the shifter in neutral. If it spins, then the shifter linkage may not be the problem.

If the trans is okay, are you sure that the clutch is adjusted properly? Can you rotate the motor with a socket on the crank snout and a breaker bar?
Finally, the flywheel bolts could be too long and hitting the rear main seal retainer. You should be able to see the ends with the inspection cover removed.
Keep us informed as to the outcome. Its how we learn!

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: RapidRobert] #924984
02/09/11 10:28 PM
02/09/11 10:28 PM
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Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

The racket is the clicking from the starter? Clean all the batt terminals/cables


Also make sure to have a good ground from the engine block to the firewall. Never too many grounds.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: RapidRobert] #924985
02/09/11 11:21 PM
02/09/11 11:21 PM
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Posts: 474
Louisiana
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duckblind Offline OP
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I couldn't tell where exactly the noise was coming from. When I was under the transmission and my friend was working the ignition it sounded like the noise was just getting all bounced around the bellhousing so couldn't pinpoint it.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Kern Dog] #924986
02/09/11 11:22 PM
02/09/11 11:22 PM
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Posts: 474
Louisiana
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duckblind Offline OP
mopar
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Louisiana
Thanks for the tips on what to look for. I will keep you informed. Will do some more troubleshooting tomorrow.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Kern Dog] #924987
02/09/11 11:24 PM
02/09/11 11:24 PM
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Louisiana
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duckblind Offline OP
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Louisiana
We did have the clutch pressed when we were spinning the motor. I have not tried to turn the driveshaft with the trans in neutral. Will try that tomorrow. As far as the flywheel bolts, I think they are ok as I bought the entire conversion from Brewers and it came with the bolts so they should be ok.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924988
02/10/11 01:58 AM
02/10/11 01:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 126
Nevada
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theman440 Offline
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Nevada
Sounds like low voltage

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924989
02/10/11 11:59 PM
02/10/11 11:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
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South-Central (Sebring), FL
I'm pretty sure the Bendix drive is bad. After that, the rellay.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: theman440] #924990
02/11/11 12:07 AM
02/11/11 12:07 AM
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Posts: 20,683
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
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Eagle, Idaho
Quote:

Sounds like low voltage






Check the voltage drop while cranking it over.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Commando1] #924991
02/11/11 10:35 AM
02/11/11 10:35 AM
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Posts: 474
Louisiana
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duckblind Offline OP
mopar
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what is the bendix drive?

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924992
02/11/11 10:47 AM
02/11/11 10:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
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South-Central (Sebring), FL
Quote:

what is the bendix drive?



Sorry. Fer ya young'ns. the starter solenoid.


Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Commando1] #924993
02/11/11 12:21 PM
02/11/11 12:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
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Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
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Montana
Quote:

Quote:

what is the bendix drive?



Sorry. Fer ya young'ns. the starter solenoid.






.....Uh.....NO. (EDIT--your picture hadn't loaded, you pointed to the correct part, just incorrectly named it) The "bendix drive" more commonly just "Bendix" is the gear assembly on the starter that contacts the flywheel. That's because either some guy or a company named Bendix sorta invented it. It's the ratchet mechanism that allows the engine to overrun the starter when if fires. Otherwise, the engine would spin the starter to death when it starts and Mom revs the pi$$ out of the engine.

Some starters such as "early Ford" spin the Bendix in by inertia. Part of the shaft has a large course thread, and when the starter spins, inertia tends to keep the outer (gear) part of the Bendix stationary, so the starter spins the thread and the gear threads right into the starter ring gear. When the engine fires, the over-rpm of the engine spins the gear back down the same thread.

Later engines, of course, use a solenoid to manually engage the starter drive, or Bendix drive

http://www.bendixbrakes.com/company/

http://www.bendixradiofoundation.com/hist_bendix.htm

typical Bendix drive before solenoids came along:


Last edited by Yancy Derringer; 02/11/11 12:22 PM.
Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Yancy Derringer] #924994
02/11/11 12:46 PM
02/11/11 12:46 PM
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Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Upper Midwest
Here is the typical Mopar gear reduction starter drive. Commonly miscalled a Bendix. PS they are no picnic to replace.

6469773-starterdrive.jpg (106 downloads)
Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Commando1] #924995
02/11/11 03:03 PM
02/11/11 03:03 PM
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Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

I'm pretty sure the Bendix drive is bad. After that, the rellay.



A a fauly solenoid will cause the chattering similar to a bad connection or ground as described as the problem in this thread, but a bad drive bill not do this. A bad drive slips on engagement and skips.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924996
02/11/11 04:59 PM
02/11/11 04:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
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Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
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Montana
Quote:

I shortened the stud that the large positive wire connects to on the starter because it was pretty much touching the block? Could this be the cause of the problem?




I don't understand ANY POSSIBLE WAY that the starter battery stud was anywhere near the block!!!!

Pictures. We MUST have pictures!!

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: Yancy Derringer] #924997
02/11/11 05:19 PM
02/11/11 05:19 PM
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Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Upper Midwest
Quote:

Quote:

I shortened the stud that the large positive wire connects to on the starter because it was pretty much touching the block? Could this be the cause of the problem?




I don't understand ANY POSSIBLE WAY that the starter battery stud was anywhere near the block!!!!

Pictures. We MUST have pictures!!



If this wire were touching you would have a very hot problem. (for a short time) This terminal is hot at all times being a direct link to the battery.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: MoparforLife] #924998
02/11/11 06:04 PM
02/11/11 06:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Louisiana
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duckblind Offline OP
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Louisiana
I will send a picture of the starter. I believe I got it from Paddock around 5 years ago or maybe summit.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: duckblind] #924999
02/11/11 06:09 PM
02/11/11 06:09 PM
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Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Like I said above, if this wire were to short out on the block you would have a very hot problem being a direct link to the positive battery terminal.

Re: 440 Starter Problems [Re: MoparforLife] #925000
02/11/11 06:50 PM
02/11/11 06:50 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Florida
if it is a mini starter,I could see the stud touching the block

on a stock starter like in the pic above..no way

next ?....does you starter look anything like whats in the pic???


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