Moparts

440 Starter Problems

Posted By: duckblind

440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 01:56 AM

I just converted a 68 charger from a auto to 4-spd. I tried to start the car up for the first time today with the 4 spd. It has been a couple of years since I cranked the engine. When I tried to start it (battery fully charged) the starter barely turned the engine over and the starter also makes a bunch of clicking noises (or at least it sounds like it is the starter) sounding like something went bad with the starter. In the process or doing the conversion, I pulled the engine. When I was putting the engine back in, I shortened the stud that the large positive wire connects to on the starter because it was pretty much touching the block? Could this be the cause of the problem? I find it hard to believe that the starter just stopped working even though it has been 2 years since it has been used. I pulled the inspection cover off the transmission and the starter gear is fully engaging but there is just a whole lot of racket and the flywheel turns awfully slow. I don't mind changing the starter but being that it is fairly involved (disconnecting header, jacking up engine etc) I want to make sure that the starter is the problem. Could it be something else?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 02:02 AM

The racket is the clicking from the starter? Clean all the batt terminals/cables
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 02:14 AM

Whats the chance that you have the trans linkage adjusted wrong ? It happens. The trans may have two gears partially engaged. Try spinning the motor with the clutch depressed. Also try spinning the driveshaft with the engine off and the shifter in neutral. If it spins, then the shifter linkage may not be the problem.

If the trans is okay, are you sure that the clutch is adjusted properly? Can you rotate the motor with a socket on the crank snout and a breaker bar?
Finally, the flywheel bolts could be too long and hitting the rear main seal retainer. You should be able to see the ends with the inspection cover removed.
Keep us informed as to the outcome. Its how we learn!
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 02:28 AM

Quote:

The racket is the clicking from the starter? Clean all the batt terminals/cables

Also make sure to have a good ground from the engine block to the firewall. Never too many grounds.
Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 03:21 AM

I couldn't tell where exactly the noise was coming from. When I was under the transmission and my friend was working the ignition it sounded like the noise was just getting all bounced around the bellhousing so couldn't pinpoint it.
Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 03:22 AM

Thanks for the tips on what to look for. I will keep you informed. Will do some more troubleshooting tomorrow.
Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 03:24 AM

We did have the clutch pressed when we were spinning the motor. I have not tried to turn the driveshaft with the trans in neutral. Will try that tomorrow. As far as the flywheel bolts, I think they are ok as I bought the entire conversion from Brewers and it came with the bolts so they should be ok.
Posted By: theman440

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/10/11 05:58 AM

Sounds like low voltage
Posted By: Commando1

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 03:59 AM

I'm pretty sure the Bendix drive is bad. After that, the rellay.
Posted By: Neil

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 04:07 AM

Quote:

Sounds like low voltage





Check the voltage drop while cranking it over.
Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 02:35 PM

what is the bendix drive?
Posted By: Commando1

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 02:47 PM

Quote:

what is the bendix drive?


Sorry. Fer ya young'ns. the starter solenoid.

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 04:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

what is the bendix drive?


Sorry. Fer ya young'ns. the starter solenoid.





.....Uh.....NO. (EDIT--your picture hadn't loaded, you pointed to the correct part, just incorrectly named it) The "bendix drive" more commonly just "Bendix" is the gear assembly on the starter that contacts the flywheel. That's because either some guy or a company named Bendix sorta invented it. It's the ratchet mechanism that allows the engine to overrun the starter when if fires. Otherwise, the engine would spin the starter to death when it starts and Mom revs the pi$$ out of the engine.

Some starters such as "early Ford" spin the Bendix in by inertia. Part of the shaft has a large course thread, and when the starter spins, inertia tends to keep the outer (gear) part of the Bendix stationary, so the starter spins the thread and the gear threads right into the starter ring gear. When the engine fires, the over-rpm of the engine spins the gear back down the same thread.

Later engines, of course, use a solenoid to manually engage the starter drive, or Bendix drive

http://www.bendixbrakes.com/company/

http://www.bendixradiofoundation.com/hist_bendix.htm

typical Bendix drive before solenoids came along:

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 04:46 PM

Here is the typical Mopar gear reduction starter drive. Commonly miscalled a Bendix. PS they are no picnic to replace.

Attached picture 6469773-starterdrive.jpg
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 07:03 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure the Bendix drive is bad. After that, the rellay.


A a fauly solenoid will cause the chattering similar to a bad connection or ground as described as the problem in this thread, but a bad drive bill not do this. A bad drive slips on engagement and skips.
Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 08:59 PM

Quote:

I shortened the stud that the large positive wire connects to on the starter because it was pretty much touching the block? Could this be the cause of the problem?



I don't understand ANY POSSIBLE WAY that the starter battery stud was anywhere near the block!!!!

Pictures. We MUST have pictures!!
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 09:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I shortened the stud that the large positive wire connects to on the starter because it was pretty much touching the block? Could this be the cause of the problem?



I don't understand ANY POSSIBLE WAY that the starter battery stud was anywhere near the block!!!!

Pictures. We MUST have pictures!!


If this wire were touching you would have a very hot problem. (for a short time) This terminal is hot at all times being a direct link to the battery.
Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 10:04 PM

I will send a picture of the starter. I believe I got it from Paddock around 5 years ago or maybe summit.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 10:09 PM

Like I said above, if this wire were to short out on the block you would have a very hot problem being a direct link to the positive battery terminal.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/11/11 10:50 PM

if it is a mini starter,I could see the stud touching the block

on a stock starter like in the pic above..no way

next ?....does you starter look anything like whats in the pic???

Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/12/11 02:16 AM

no it does not look like the picture. It is a mini-starter.
Posted By: Commando1

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/12/11 03:16 PM

Quote:

...PS they are no picnic to replace.


Yep. AMHIK...
Posted By: duckblind

Re: 440 Starter Problems - 02/25/11 02:23 PM

Turns out the problem was a bad starter relay. Changed it out and everything worked ok. Also found out that the starter is for a 90 something Dakota.
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