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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#903022
01/14/11 11:24 PM
01/14/11 11:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,167
Maryland
GO_Fish
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,167
Maryland
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You still see School Buses with chains dangling from the rear axle... they still have vinyl seats!
Scott B.
"I'm a self-made man... I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!"
68 360 rusty B'cuda 'vert (GO Fish)13.59@ 98.72 mph
69 340 GTS stock 14.18@ 95.60 mph
01 5.9L Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4
01 3.5L 300M 16.23@ 86.97 mph
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: Apollo 13]
#903025
01/16/11 12:20 PM
01/16/11 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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Quote:
Quote:
PURE water, DI water, distilled water DO NOT CONDUCT electricity.
New coolant out of a jug also does not conduct.
Quote:
O.k., not trying to be smart  , but if that is the case, why not fill your swimming pool up with distilled water or anti-freeze? You then wouldn't have to worry about thunderstorms or being electrocuted AND as a bonus swim with that anode thingy around your neck so the plumbing doesn't get corroded. just sayin'
Just sayin'?
Just saying what? That's one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard.
H2O has no electrical charge. Look it up. Google is your friend.
The contaminants and additives in water will cause the conductivity problems.
You also need to know that water is very aggressive. It will corrode metals. That's one reason you're not likely to see pure water being carried through metal pipes. The additives in coolant prohibit the corrosion.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: GO_Fish]
#903026
01/16/11 12:30 PM
01/16/11 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 92
PA
68_CONV_300
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 92
PA
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Quote:
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Those straps were to kill static electricy caused by the old style tires. They had more carbon in the rubber and that caused a lot of static charge that would zap you when you touched the door handle.
And sliding corderoy pants across vinyl seats also, Zap! 
LMAO ...
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: feets]
#903028
01/16/11 11:24 PM
01/16/11 11:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 802
Maysville, Kentucky
Apollo 13
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 802
Maysville, Kentucky
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Just sayin'?
Just saying what? That's one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard
Feets, I wasn't meaning to be serious. I respect your opinion because you have been on this site for a good long time, just as I have been on and off for about as long. Now, that being said, I would like to ask if you would be willing to get in a barrel of distilled water, or pure water as you said, with an exposed cord of 110v running through said cord. I wouldn't. Explain how that would or wouldn't electrocute me or you. You may have a good answer that I am willing to hear. I know this is off the original topic of current through a radiator, but I am just going off what you have written.
Secondly, " Just Sayin' " is not not grammatically correct. The term is slang. Yes, it would be "just saying" if used correctly in a sentence. It is a popular usage of slang/vernacular when somebody says something and they are putting a tone of inflection when they say "just sayin'" at the end of their statement. It is a way of trying to be nice instead of being forceful or matter of factly about what they just said.
Lastly, surely you must be kidding about that being one of the most ignorant things you have ever heard? Really? I understand if you think I was trying make fun of you. That was not the case. Tongue in cheek is the way it was meant. It was a joke.
If you don't start it , you don't have to end it.
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: Apollo 13]
#903029
01/16/11 11:44 PM
01/16/11 11:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,679
Andrewh
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,679
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I would as long as it was a plastic barrel, with pure water or coolant. Heck I would pull a 220, or 440 volt line in with me. However DC would be more dangerous than ac lines, and I would do that too. The reason pure water doesn't conduct is it has no free electrons to move. No way for it to complete the circuit, so no power flows. for 99 cents you can prove it to yourself. buy a bottle of distilled water, not ozarkas and you can put both leads of a battery in it and see nothing happens. try that with tap water and you might get a spark. Now add salt to the water and you create a dead short. more disolved stuff in the water, the better a conductor it is. Now my bet is the op's coolant was old. The only scam they could pull is touch the side of the rad and complete the circuit if it was new coolant and distilled water. OR they flushed and filled with tap water. Quote:
Just sayin'?
Just saying what? That's one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard
Feets, I wasn't meaning to be serious. I respect your opinion because you have been on this site for a good long time, just as I have been on and off for about as long. Now, that being said, I would like to ask if you would be willing to get in a barrel of distilled water, or pure water as you said, with an exposed cord of 110v running through said cord. I wouldn't. Explain how that would or wouldn't electrocute me or you. You may have a good answer that I am willing to hear. I know this is off the original topic of current through a radiator, but I am just going off what you have written.
Secondly, " Just Sayin' " is not not grammatically correct. The term is slang. Yes, it would be "just saying" if used correctly in a sentence. It is a popular usage of slang/vernacular when somebody says something and they are putting a tone of inflection when they say "just sayin'" at the end of their statement. It is a way of trying to be nice instead of being forceful or matter of factly about what they just said.
Lastly, surely you must be kidding about that being one of the most ignorant things you have ever heard? Really? I understand if you think I was trying make fun of you. That was not the case. Tongue in cheek is the way it was meant. It was a joke.
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: pressureangle]
#903033
01/17/11 10:18 AM
01/17/11 10:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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I STILL say the coolant generating ANY amount of voltage is total  Debate what you want about electrolysis, chemical reaction, voltage leaks, gremlins, F.M., etc... that radiator isn't producing energy! Period. If it could, Toyota would have figured out another way to power a hybrid by now. Too many wannabe rocket scientists around here...  I
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: Sport440]
#903034
01/17/11 12:37 PM
01/17/11 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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Quote:
Andrewh, Instead of addressing the conductivity of distilled water vs non distilled water.
How about addressing your thoughts on the 12 volts in the water/coolant system.
Further, it takes very little to make distilled water conductive. Simply filling it into a cast iron block with its contaniments is enough to make it conductive again.
To me its not a arguement about the coolants conductivity. Its about the alleged 12 Volts in the coolant! mike
You guys may not be familiar with Andrewh's background with water, chemistry, and cooling systems. Let's just say his training and experience far outweigh what most people on this board have experienced.
The contaminated cooling system needs to be drained completely (block drains and heater too) and flushed extensively. After that, a refill with distilled water and good coolant should cure the problem for a while. The coolant would slow down the corrosion growing in the system.
They should not have measured 12 volts in the cooling system unless they were pulling some sort of scam.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: GO_Fish]
#903036
01/17/11 01:46 PM
01/17/11 01:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,679
Andrewh
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,679
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let me start again.
Coolant and pure water do not conduct.
the radiator is not generating anything.
It has become a path to ground because the coolant is conductive, or they tried to scam you and touch the electrode to the radiator itself instead of just the liquid inside.
IF the coolant is still conductive, they did not refil with distilled water as you are supposed to, or did not flush the system as they were supposed to, and you are running around with old coolant.
ANY SET OF DISSIMILAR METALS that are connected with a conductive material, IE actually bolted together, or wires attached, or in a conductive solution will experience some type of galvanic corrosion.
The best way to treat this problem is to isolate the two parts. Since this is not normally possible, the next choice is to put in a sacrificial anode.
Depending on the materials and the amount of conduction, the decay will vary. So some people never see an issue. My bet is those people change out their rad fluid pretty regularly. Or it is so deep into the engine they cannot see it.
Good ground help, but do not prevent. Since it isn't about having a better path to ground, rather the metal's desire to giveup or take an electron from the other metal.
Aluminum and zinc are the two worst in wanting to give up. Fortunatly Zinc and magnesium want to give it up more than aluminum, so you can have a piece of metal you don't care about corrode and die before the radiator or heads you do care about.
It is not that there are 12 volts coming out of the raditor, it is the fact that the radiator is a path to ground when the coolant is conductive.
it is correct to say, that after a while it will be come conductive again. While there are several reasons for this, impurities it picks up is just the simplest way to say it.
Due to circulation and air entering the water, the ph becomes acidic over time, causing more corosion than pure water. It absorbs co2 in the air and becomes carbonic acid. this causes even more "stuff" to enter the water as it circulates.
The coolant is added to prevent this or neutralze the water with its additives ensuring it remains non-conductive for a longer period of time.
But regardless, you will still have to flush the system out periodically to prevent it from being fully conductive.
As asked before, why doesn't he fix the problem instead of the band aid.
Well there may be a few items to make it last longer, but it is not something that can be stopped without the band aid. it is how those items react in chemistry.
Now that is not the same as doing nothing else.
The options were more grounds.
flush with fresh coolant and distilled water
check for electrical leakage
but even with all that, a sacrificial anode at 5 bucks a pop, would be something to add to any system.
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: Andrewh]
#903037
01/17/11 03:31 PM
01/17/11 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
...
IF the coolant is still conductive, they did not refil with distilled water as you are supposed to, or did not flush the system as they were supposed to, and you are running around with old coolant.
ANY SET OF DISSIMILAR METALS that are connected with a conductive material, IE actually bolted together, or wires attached, or in a conductive solution will experience some type of galvanic corrosion.
The best way to treat this problem is to isolate the two parts. Since this is not normally possible, the next choice is to put in a sacrificial anode.
Depending on the materials and the amount of conduction, the decay will vary. So some people never see an issue. My bet is those people change out their rad fluid pretty regularly. Or it is so deep into the engine they cannot see it.
Good ground help, but do not prevent. Since it isn't about having a better path to ground, rather the metal's desire to giveup or take an electron from the other metal. ...
Under 400mV or .4 volt seems to be generally accepted OK in auto repair.
Andrewh, do you see an issue if it's not absolutely dead nuts zero mV ?? I've seen many that still have some mV in them after complete flushes.
If somebody did a heater core and forgot to put in a ground strap or other repair, you'll have a continual problem.
Some particular car models more often than others have premature heater core corosion from grounding issue.
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: TrueTripleX]
#903038
01/17/11 03:46 PM
01/17/11 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
I have a 1999 Dodge truck that has an unusual ??problem?? and I would like to know what the truth is.
I had an issue with the radiator being eaten up. The radiator shop told me that I had an electrolysis issue because of electricity in the radiator. With a volt meter, with one probe in the water, they showed me that there was electricity flowing through the radiator. Replaced the radiator, put on additional ground straps, but still have the same electrical flow. Another shop told me that ALL newer vehicles have this electrical flow. They proceeded to show me on another Dodge truck, a ford truck and a Mercedes that they were all carrying electricity in the water in the radiators. This other shop said that this was because of the “green” antifreeze, but that doesn’t sound right to me.
What’s the story and should I be concerned
Larry, was it measured 12 volts at the first shop and second shop? If not what voltage?
What radiator shop was it? Was it Reseda Radiator or Radiator Works?
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: Andrewh]
#903040
01/17/11 04:47 PM
01/17/11 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
if it is actually dead nuts zero then no. No continuity so no problem.
I can't say how long it will last. it really has a lot to do with the corosion inhibitors in the coolant.
Do you feel under 400mV is ok in a automobile system? That's what the auto trade magazines are saying. And I've seen that number in some instructions with new heater cores.
Have any of you mechanics out there got down to 0.00mV measured after a complete flush? Or how close? Or what about new cars? I'm not implying anything, just looking for actual observations and measurements.
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Re: electricity in the radiator
[Re: autoxcuda]
#903041
01/17/11 07:19 PM
01/17/11 07:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,679
Andrewh
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,679
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I don't feel qualified to answer what the acceptible level is. nor do I have any volume of trials to say what new cars measure. I am sure that number comes from a bit of research, and all joking a side, the amount of corrosion that is acceptible to cover up to the power train warranty runs out. Lower is obviously better, but hard to maintain. Quote:
Quote:
if it is actually dead nuts zero then no. No continuity so no problem.
I can't say how long it will last. it really has a lot to do with the corosion inhibitors in the coolant.
Do you feel under 400mV is ok in a automobile system? That's what the auto trade magazines are saying. And I've seen that number in some instructions with new heater cores.
Have any of you mechanics out there got down to 0.00mV measured after a complete flush? Or how close? Or what about new cars? I'm not implying anything, just looking for actual observations and measurements.
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