Moparts
electricity in the radiator
Posted By: TrueTripleX
electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:18 PM
I have a 1999 Dodge truck that has an unusual ??problem?? and I would like to know what the truth is.
I had an issue with the radiator being eaten up. The radiator shop told me that I had an electrolysis issue because of electricity in the radiator. With a volt meter, with one probe in the water, they showed me that there was electricity flowing through the radiator. Replaced the radiator, put on additional ground straps, but still have the same electrical flow. Another shop told me that ALL newer vehicles have this electrical flow. They proceeded to show me on another Dodge truck, a ford truck and a Mercedes that they were all carrying electricity in the water in the radiators. This other shop said that this was because of the “green” antifreeze, but that doesn’t sound right to me.
What’s the story and should I be concerned
Posted By: Yancy Derringer
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:24 PM
I don't know if he's right or not but he could be. Electrolysis works more like a battery, remember your simple science?
You need two "dissimilar" metals and an electrolyte.
a lemon, a dime, and a penny make a battery. It might just be that the radiator, the block, and the antifreeze are causing this. It's been a long time, but big trucks used to use sacrificial filters and additives to help prevent this, and if it's this bad, Chrysler should be doing something with it.
Posted By: TrueTripleX
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:37 PM
Quote:
I don't know if he's right or not but he could be. Electrolysis works more like a battery, remember your simple science?
You need two "dissimilar" metals and an electrolyte.
a lemon, a dime, and a penny make a battery. It might just be that the radiator, the block, and the antifreeze are causing this. It's been a long time, but big trucks used to use sacrificial filters and additives to help prevent this, and if it's this bad, Chrysler should be doing something with it.
Thanks Yancy and I do remember the high school science, but this is registering 12 V. It seems like this is too high a number. They also stuck the probe in the upper radiator hose (in the middle) and registered 12V. Strange???
Posted By: AB&E
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:50 PM
been there done that it is true I ate up 2 radiators before grounding everything. then I would sale it
electrolisis eats up metal like headgaskets & everything else dump it it is a known problem in certain years mainly chevrolet I believe
Posted By: Pool Fixer
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:54 PM
I remember on the "shade tree mechanic" show..or maybe it was later when they changed it to "two guys garage" they built a gmc caballero (like el camino) and they installed some electric box and said it would stop electrolysis and slow down rust or something like that. maybe look into that. sounded like an easy thing to hook up and low draw.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:57 PM
nope, not strange.
you may have some stray current but it does happen.
2 dissimilar metals in a current carrying solution will get galvanic corosion.
aluminum corrodes faster than cast iron and it will eventually eat it away.
extra ground helps, having rad fluid changed out to something that doesn't carry current helps. Hopefully they fully flushed your system with new coolant.
also I added a zinc annode to my system to so it will be eaten first.
Change it out every few years.
Same thing happens in your hot water heater,
same thing happens on boats/ships etc..
got mine from some place called boatzincs or something like that.
put it in a block plug instead of the rad but either way works.
gives the ssytem something else to eat instead of the rad.
Posted By: AB&E
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/12/11 11:59 PM
I have been in the used car bus for 30yrs we just sold a 2001 dakota 4.7 had the same problem but it ate all the metal out of the thermostate housing and all the water ports then it took the headgaskets about 200 miles later like I said hook up the grounds like it sounds like they did and sale it to someone not on moparts or plan on possibly replacing motor electrolosis kills metal inside the motor with any water contact overtime
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 12:40 AM
wow, been around cars for 35 years and never heard or should i say has never happened to me or seen it,but to each his own.learn something new everyday
Posted By: screamindriver
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 12:44 AM
Where is a good place to add the zinc annode ???
Posted By: TrueTripleX
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 01:08 AM
We have grounded the radiator to the chassis and extra groung on the block to the chassis. Where else should I put ground straps to help with this
Posted By: mickm
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 01:15 AM
maybe i'm misunderstanding this, but it seems like having that kind of voltage in the radiator is not a normal situation.
wouldn't he be better off finding out why it is there, and getting it to a normal situation rather than putting band aids on it?
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 01:26 AM
it isn't a bandaid, it is how it works.
There are multiple paths to ground. As long as your coolant has enough iron from the block to be conductive this is going to happen.
More grounds on the block will help.
grounds on the rad, (since it is bolted to the body) probably don't make so much of a difference, if anything, I would isolate it so it doesn't give a path to ground. Thus preventing current from flowing in that direction.
Zinc anodes have been around a very long time.
Aluminum radiators have not been common for our old cars but are common for new cars and most have something like that.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 01:49 AM
Quote:
also I added a zinc annode to my system to so it will be eaten first.
got mine from some place called boatzincs or something like that.
put it in a block plug instead of the rad but either way works.
They're cheap maybe ~$15 & have pipe threads iirc 3/8 or 1/2 NPT & put anywhere in the cooling system in any unused port, that & as said extra ground strap(s) EDIT esp needed w alum rad
Posted By: mickm
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 02:07 AM
Quote:
it isn't a bandaid, it is how it works.
i guess i don't understand why this isn't an issue with every car then. it sounds like this exists to some degree in every car, but more so in others, enough to cause this type of damage.
so wouldn't there be some reason why his car has a higher amount of electricity flowing through the coolant, and try to figure out why that is?
Posted By: pressureangle
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 02:11 AM
Some years back I serviced a fleet of Caterpillar forklifts which constantly threw trouble codes and ate sensors, brass plugs and even the thermostats. To make a long story short;
First check for *AC* voltage in the coolant. If you have any (~5vac) have your alternator tested by a competent auto electric shop (not the NAPA spin-o-tron)
Secondly, as others have said be certain that the radiator, chassis, and engine are all thoroughly grounded together. I prefer to ground the chassis and radiator both to the same attachment point as the engine block negative. If your engine and radiator are completely grounded together, there won't be any juice to pass through the coolant.
Lastly, and importantly; what we discovered with the Caterpillar forklifts was that the alternator bodies were not grounded to the engines. The blocks and brackets were painted, and although the engine and radiator were both grounded to the frame, the ground loop found its way back to the alternator through the engine(starter ground)chassis(lights/gauges grounds)via the coolant. I still don't fully understand the path, but we grounded the alternators thoroughly and the problem went away.
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 04:04 AM
Old coolant can become corrosive itself also, pH becomes acidic. More of a problem with diesels than gas I think, and more of a problem with aluminum radiators than copper. In general the more aluminum parts in the engine, the more vulnerable also I'd say. Stay up on your coolant changes and use the grounds mentioned. Would be nice if someone made a radiator cap with a zinc anode hanging from it...
At some point, corrosion becomes rampant and takes on a life of its own in the entire system or vehicle. Once the corrosion has become that entrenched, there is almost nothing you can do to stop the process more than briefly. You put new parts on and they corrode within months. When it gets to that point, time to look for another ride.
Posted By: bomber1965
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 04:15 AM
Quote:
Would be nice if someone made a radiator cap with a zinc anode hanging from it...
rad cap anode
Product Details
The cooling system of a Viper, SRT-10 Ram and many other cars carries a slight positive charge. This charge will cause erosion of the aluminum components in contact with the coolant. The sacrificial anode is immersed in the coolant tank and because it's a "softer" metal, the EME attacks the anode instead. Extends the life of all metal components in the coolant system. You'll be stunned to see the corrosion it begins to show after just two weeks. Fits all model year Vipers and SRT Rams
Posted By: AB&E
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 04:53 AM
Quote:
Old coolant can become corrosive itself also, pH becomes acidic. More of a problem with diesels than gas I think, and more of a problem with aluminum radiators than copper. In general the more aluminum parts in the engine, the more vulnerable also I'd say. Stay up on your coolant changes and use the grounds mentioned. Would be nice if someone made a radiator cap with a zinc anode hanging from it...
At some point, corrosion becomes rampant and takes on a life of its own in the entire system or vehicle. Once the corrosion has become that entrenched, there is almost nothing you can do to stop the process more than briefly. You put new parts on and they corrode within months. When it gets to that point, time to look for another ride.
my point exactly time for a new ride there is a level of elec. in most i believe but then there is to many amps or what have ya very common in big diesel trucks atleast the ones the built 30 yrs ago
Posted By: MY340
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 03:02 PM
Quote:
never had this problem myself,maybe cause I drive older junk with bigger problems
but i learned 2 things from this post 
1) the anode thing a ma jig goes in the block or rad
2) dont buy any cars from AB&E
especially with #2
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 03:14 PM
i have thru the years had guys tell
of this,, never seen it
someone would have tp personely
show me this one
so went out and checked every car i have
not a one shows any volts while running or
otherwise!!
i even went to my uncles house and checked out his stuff!!
guess what ???? OOOOO
nada, zelch,
as with mythbusters would say 'debunked'
Posted By: justinp61
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 03:23 PM
Just out of curiosity. Which test lead are you probing the liquid in the radiator with? Positive on the battery and negative in the liquid? IMHO if this is the way you are checking, it will show 12v. The liquid is the grounding through the block to the negative side of the battery.
If you are testing with the negative test lead on the battery and the positive in the liquid and get 12v you have issues.
Posted By: feets
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 04:46 PM
Water is conductive. That's why you don't bathe with a plugged in hair drier.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 06:07 PM
REGULAR TAP water is conductive.
DI or distiled is not.
Coolant is not conductive either.
But depending on how old it is, it starts to pick up particals and becomes conductive.
So if you flush your system out per maintence standards, then you help to prevent this issue. But it will happen to some degree due to disolved solides. Just makes it worse if you fill your rad from a hose.
Posted By: feets
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 06:58 PM
I know better than to argue with you about water and chemistry. Few people on Moparts have your level of expertise.
H2O has no charge and no desire to swap electrons. The same goes for ethel glycol. However, all the other crap in water is conductive. I'm not sure how many people use distilled water in their radiators.
Mixing tap water with coolant will become conductive easier than a distilled water and glycol mix.
Posted By: AB&E
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 09:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
never had this problem myself,maybe cause I drive older junk with bigger problems
but i learned 2 things from this post
1) the anode thing a ma jig goes in the block or rad
2) dont buy any cars from AB&E
especially with #2
Thanks guys dont worry most of you live on the east coast can u say rust 3 times fast 
by the way the truck I was talking about is still for sale any takers great deal got it from my grandmother 
shucks..i was just kidding you
I get most of my cars from "sample auto sales BR-549" anyways
Posted By: Cudajon
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/13/11 11:28 PM
When I was working in the oil fields in Saudi Arabia we used what where sacrificial cathods to prevent the hot oil flowing through the pipe lines from building up an electrical charge and corrdong the pipelines.
Cathodic protection Same thing happens in a radiator. I've seen several examples of this in engines, but have never heard how well it works. The Idea behind cathodic protection was to allow the electricity that was building up to go to ground with the sacrificial cathode taking the charge and corroding instead of the oil line. I know we used to stick a penny in the soft top of lead acid batteries and it would corrode intead of the terminals.
Posted By: Pool Fixer
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 01:00 AM
I am in the swimming pool business and we run into something similar. I've only seen it myself on jobs with salt water chlorination or really crappy tap water with lots of metals in it. We use sacrificial anodes to fight it. The ones we use have a bonding lug built in and you are supposed tie that in with the existing pool bonding wire (all pool shells, ladders, rails, and equipment that's metal are connected with a bonding wire)
Posted By: Sport440
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 01:19 AM
Quote:
Just out of curiosity. Which test lead are you probing the liquid in the radiator with? Positive on the battery and negative in the liquid? IMHO if this is the way you are checking, it will show 12v. The liquid is the grounding through the block to the negative side of the battery.
If you are testing with the negative test lead on the battery and the positive in the liquid and get 12v you have issues.
Im, sure you dont have 12 volts running through the rad. They must of done the above, one lead to a positive and a ground to the water in the rad. Since your rad and water is grounded , you see 12.xx volts.
There can be electroalisis in rads, but not 12+ volts worth. mike
Posted By: JohnH
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 01:55 AM
I was always told to hang a grounding strap to the ground and let it drag as you drive to disapate the electric to the ground.
Posted By: Cudajon
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 04:06 AM
I prefer duct tape and an aluminum foil hat.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 01:00 PM
Quote:
wow, been around cars for 35 years and never heard or should i say has never happened to me or seen it,but to each his own.learn something new everyday
45 years here. Never heard of such a thing. But people buy ShamWows, too.
If you system is creating 12V, you have a new perpetual motion machine and free electricity. Start you car, run an inverter off it and power your electronics simply from the corrosion in your system.
A galvanic reaction is in the mV, not volts. I am not denying you have a problem, but I think the magnitude is wrong. I have never heard of this and I been messing with cars 30 years. I am a shade tree mechanic, not an expert, but I am a professional electrical engineer. You need to watch how the snake oil salesman is presenting the snake oil. Make sure he did not take the "oil" out of a rain barrel.......
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 05:20 PM
ok guys antifreeze will change over time and become corrisive, cyle of heat /cold and age
thats why you are supposed to change youre fluid every 2 years or when ever ,
water does conduct elec ,
if you have 12 volts running thru you radiator ,,
FIX YOURE PROBLEM,
COLLANT DOESNT GENERATE ELECTRICITY!!
alluminum radiators , alluminim heads require , attention as to corosive types of antifreeze, and proper ph balance
as with desil motors same deal
it would be very usefull to use distilled water as it has little to no impuritys to break the antifreeze down you are using quicker,
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 05:32 PM
PURE water, DI water, distilled water DO NOT CONDUCT electricity.
New coolant out of a jug also does not conduct.
Quote:
ok guys antifreeze will change over time and become corrisive, cyle of heat /cold and age
thats why you are supposed to change youre fluid every 2 years or when ever ,
water does conduct elec ,
if you have 12 volts running thru you radiator ,,
FIX YOURE PROBLEM,
COLLANT DOESNT GENERATE ELECTRICITY!!
alluminum radiators , alluminim heads require , attention as to corosive types of antifreeze, and proper ph balance
as with desil motors same deal
it would be very usefull to use distilled water as it has little to no impuritys to break the antifreeze down you are using quicker,
Posted By: screamindriver
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/14/11 11:23 PM
Quote:
I was always told to hang a grounding strap to the ground and let it drag as you drive to disapate the electric to the ground.
I know alot of the old timers used to have those rubber/metal straps hanging down from their vehicles.. .I have'nt seen anyone do that with computor controlled vehicles....
Posted By: stumpy
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/15/11 12:49 AM
Those straps were to kill static electricy caused by the old style tires. They had more carbon in the rubber and that caused a lot of static charge that would zap you when you touched the door handle.
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/15/11 01:05 AM
Quote:
Those straps were to kill static electricy caused by the old style tires. They had more carbon in the rubber and that caused a lot of static charge that would zap you when you touched the door handle.
And sliding corderoy pants across vinyl seats also, Zap! 
I just saw a 05-09 chebby truck with a rubber strip draging the ground tied to the hitch with a gronding bolt/washer deal and thought about that comment on this post
so yes i have seen it on newer trucks..only 1 but I thinking thats wat it was anyways
i know I used to have a 12 volt shock deal rigged up for dogs peeing on the rims and drug a ground strap for it
get out of the truck and flip a switch...zap the crap right out of them while peeing
dont take long to break them thats for sure
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/15/11 03:24 AM
You still see School Buses with chains dangling from the rear axle... they still have vinyl seats!
Posted By: bomber1965
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/16/11 07:29 AM
this is why your hot water heater leaks after 5 or 6 years, nobody replaces the anode......
anode
Posted By: Apollo 13
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/16/11 09:55 AM
Quote:
PURE water, DI water, distilled water DO NOT CONDUCT electricity.
New coolant out of a jug also does not conduct.
Quote:
O.k., not trying to be smart , but if that is the case, why not fill your swimming pool up with distilled water or anti-freeze? You then wouldn't have to worry about thunderstorms or being electrocuted AND as a bonus swim with that anode thingy around your neck so the plumbing doesn't get corroded. just sayin'
Posted By: feets
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/16/11 04:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
PURE water, DI water, distilled water DO NOT CONDUCT electricity.
New coolant out of a jug also does not conduct.
Quote:
O.k., not trying to be smart , but if that is the case, why not fill your swimming pool up with distilled water or anti-freeze? You then wouldn't have to worry about thunderstorms or being electrocuted AND as a bonus swim with that anode thingy around your neck so the plumbing doesn't get corroded. just sayin'
Just sayin'?
Just saying what? That's one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard.
H2O has no electrical charge. Look it up. Google is your friend.
The contaminants and additives in water will cause the conductivity problems.
You also need to know that water is very aggressive. It will corrode metals. That's one reason you're not likely to see pure water being carried through metal pipes. The additives in coolant prohibit the corrosion.
Posted By: 68_CONV_300
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/16/11 04:30 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Those straps were to kill static electricy caused by the old style tires. They had more carbon in the rubber and that caused a lot of static charge that would zap you when you touched the door handle.
And sliding corderoy pants across vinyl seats also, Zap!
LMAO ...
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/16/11 04:36 PM
Posted By: Apollo 13
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 03:24 AM
Just sayin'?
Just saying what? That's one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard
Feets, I wasn't meaning to be serious. I respect your opinion because you have been on this site for a good long time, just as I have been on and off for about as long. Now, that being said, I would like to ask if you would be willing to get in a barrel of distilled water, or pure water as you said, with an exposed cord of 110v running through said cord. I wouldn't. Explain how that would or wouldn't electrocute me or you. You may have a good answer that I am willing to hear. I know this is off the original topic of current through a radiator, but I am just going off what you have written.
Secondly, " Just Sayin' " is not not grammatically correct. The term is slang. Yes, it would be "just saying" if used correctly in a sentence. It is a popular usage of slang/vernacular when somebody says something and they are putting a tone of inflection when they say "just sayin'" at the end of their statement. It is a way of trying to be nice instead of being forceful or matter of factly about what they just said.
Lastly, surely you must be kidding about that being one of the most ignorant things you have ever heard? Really? I understand if you think I was trying make fun of you. That was not the case. Tongue in cheek is the way it was meant. It was a joke.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 03:44 AM
I would as long as it was a plastic barrel, with pure water or coolant.
Heck I would pull a 220, or 440 volt line in with me. However DC would be more dangerous than ac lines, and I would do that too.
The reason pure water doesn't conduct is it has no free electrons to move.
No way for it to complete the circuit, so no power flows.
for 99 cents you can prove it to yourself. buy a bottle of distilled water, not ozarkas and you can put both leads of a battery in it and see nothing happens.
try that with tap water and you might get a spark. Now add salt to the water and you create a dead short.
more disolved stuff in the water, the better a conductor it is.
Now my bet is the op's coolant was old.
The only scam they could pull is touch the side of the rad and complete the circuit if it was new coolant and distilled water.
OR they flushed and filled with tap water.
Quote:
Just sayin'?
Just saying what? That's one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard
Feets, I wasn't meaning to be serious. I respect your opinion because you have been on this site for a good long time, just as I have been on and off for about as long. Now, that being said, I would like to ask if you would be willing to get in a barrel of distilled water, or pure water as you said, with an exposed cord of 110v running through said cord. I wouldn't. Explain how that would or wouldn't electrocute me or you. You may have a good answer that I am willing to hear. I know this is off the original topic of current through a radiator, but I am just going off what you have written.
Secondly, " Just Sayin' " is not not grammatically correct. The term is slang. Yes, it would be "just saying" if used correctly in a sentence. It is a popular usage of slang/vernacular when somebody says something and they are putting a tone of inflection when they say "just sayin'" at the end of their statement. It is a way of trying to be nice instead of being forceful or matter of factly about what they just said.
Lastly, surely you must be kidding about that being one of the most ignorant things you have ever heard? Really? I understand if you think I was trying make fun of you. That was not the case. Tongue in cheek is the way it was meant. It was a joke.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 05:52 AM
Andrewh, Instead of addressing the conductivity of distilled water vs non distilled water.
How about addressing your thoughts on the 12 volts in the water/coolant system.
Further, it takes very little to make distilled water conductive. Simply filling it into a cast iron block with its contaniments is enough to make it conductive again.
To me its not a arguement about the coolants conductivity. Its about the alleged 12 Volts in the coolant! mike
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 06:04 AM
Posted By: pressureangle
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 07:18 AM
Quote:
I was always told to hang a grounding strap to the ground and let it drag as you drive to disapate the electric to the ground.
Laugh if you like, a static strap along with white synthetic tires are OSHA requirements for forklifts in flammable environments. You'll know when it needs a new one too, you'll get a spark that lites you up worse than your polyester socks on a wool carpet.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 02:18 PM
I
STILL say the coolant generating
ANY amount of voltage is total
Debate what you want about electrolysis, chemical reaction, voltage leaks, gremlins, F.M., etc...
that radiator isn't producing energy! Period. If it could, Toyota would have figured out another way to power a hybrid by now.
Too many wannabe rocket scientists around here...
I
Posted By: feets
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 04:37 PM
Quote:
Andrewh, Instead of addressing the conductivity of distilled water vs non distilled water.
How about addressing your thoughts on the 12 volts in the water/coolant system.
Further, it takes very little to make distilled water conductive. Simply filling it into a cast iron block with its contaniments is enough to make it conductive again.
To me its not a arguement about the coolants conductivity. Its about the alleged 12 Volts in the coolant! mike
You guys may not be familiar with Andrewh's background with water, chemistry, and cooling systems. Let's just say his training and experience far outweigh what most people on this board have experienced.
The contaminated cooling system needs to be drained completely (block drains and heater too) and flushed extensively. After that, a refill with distilled water and good coolant should cure the problem for a while. The coolant would slow down the corrosion growing in the system.
They should not have measured 12 volts in the cooling system unless they were pulling some sort of scam.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 05:14 PM
Quote:
The contaminated cooling system needs to be drained completely (block drains and heater too) and flushed extensively. After that, a refill with distilled water and good coolant should cure the problem for a while. The coolant would slow down the corrosion growing in the system.
They should not have measured 12 volts in the cooling system unless they were pulling some sort of scam.
Dave
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 05:46 PM
let me start again.
Coolant and pure water do not conduct.
the radiator is not generating anything.
It has become a path to ground because the coolant is conductive, or they tried to scam you and touch the electrode to the radiator itself instead of just the liquid inside.
IF the coolant is still conductive, they did not refil with distilled water as you are supposed to, or did not flush the system as they were supposed to, and you are running around with old coolant.
ANY SET OF DISSIMILAR METALS that are connected with a conductive material, IE actually bolted together, or wires attached, or in a conductive solution will experience some type of galvanic corrosion.
The best way to treat this problem is to isolate the two parts. Since this is not normally possible, the next choice is to put in a sacrificial anode.
Depending on the materials and the amount of conduction, the decay will vary. So some people never see an issue. My bet is those people change out their rad fluid pretty regularly. Or it is so deep into the engine they cannot see it.
Good ground help, but do not prevent. Since it isn't about having a better path to ground, rather the metal's desire to giveup or take an electron from the other metal.
Aluminum and zinc are the two worst in wanting to give up. Fortunatly Zinc and magnesium want to give it up more than aluminum, so you can have a piece of metal you don't care about corrode and die before the radiator or heads you do care about.
It is not that there are 12 volts coming out of the raditor, it is the fact that the radiator is a path to ground when the coolant is conductive.
it is correct to say, that after a while it will be come conductive again. While there are several reasons for this, impurities it picks up is just the simplest way to say it.
Due to circulation and air entering the water, the ph becomes acidic over time, causing more corosion than pure water. It absorbs co2 in the air and becomes carbonic acid. this causes even more "stuff" to enter the water as it circulates.
The coolant is added to prevent this or neutralze the water with its additives ensuring it remains non-conductive for a longer period of time.
But regardless, you will still have to flush the system out periodically to prevent it from being fully conductive.
As asked before, why doesn't he fix the problem instead of the band aid.
Well there may be a few items to make it last longer, but it is not something that can be stopped without the band aid. it is how those items react in chemistry.
Now that is not the same as doing nothing else.
The options were more grounds.
flush with fresh coolant and distilled water
check for electrical leakage
but even with all that, a sacrificial anode at 5 bucks a pop, would be something to add to any system.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 07:31 PM
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...
IF the coolant is still conductive, they did not refil with distilled water as you are supposed to, or did not flush the system as they were supposed to, and you are running around with old coolant.
ANY SET OF DISSIMILAR METALS that are connected with a conductive material, IE actually bolted together, or wires attached, or in a conductive solution will experience some type of galvanic corrosion.
The best way to treat this problem is to isolate the two parts. Since this is not normally possible, the next choice is to put in a sacrificial anode.
Depending on the materials and the amount of conduction, the decay will vary. So some people never see an issue. My bet is those people change out their rad fluid pretty regularly. Or it is so deep into the engine they cannot see it.
Good ground help, but do not prevent. Since it isn't about having a better path to ground, rather the metal's desire to giveup or take an electron from the other metal. ...
Under 400mV or .4 volt seems to be generally accepted OK in auto repair.
Andrewh, do you see an issue if it's not absolutely dead nuts zero mV ?? I've seen many that still have some mV in them after complete flushes.
If somebody did a heater core and forgot to put in a ground strap or other repair, you'll have a continual problem.
Some particular car models more often than others have premature heater core corosion from grounding issue.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 07:46 PM
Quote:
I have a 1999 Dodge truck that has an unusual ??problem?? and I would like to know what the truth is.
I had an issue with the radiator being eaten up. The radiator shop told me that I had an electrolysis issue because of electricity in the radiator. With a volt meter, with one probe in the water, they showed me that there was electricity flowing through the radiator. Replaced the radiator, put on additional ground straps, but still have the same electrical flow. Another shop told me that ALL newer vehicles have this electrical flow. They proceeded to show me on another Dodge truck, a ford truck and a Mercedes that they were all carrying electricity in the water in the radiators. This other shop said that this was because of the “green” antifreeze, but that doesn’t sound right to me.
What’s the story and should I be concerned
Larry, was it measured 12 volts at the first shop and second shop? If not what voltage?
What radiator shop was it? Was it Reseda Radiator or Radiator Works?
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 07:59 PM
if it is actually dead nuts zero then no. No continuity so no problem.
I can't say how long it will last. it really has a lot to do with the corosion inhibitors in the coolant.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 08:47 PM
Quote:
if it is actually dead nuts zero then no. No continuity so no problem.
I can't say how long it will last. it really has a lot to do with the corosion inhibitors in the coolant.
Do you feel under 400mV is ok in a automobile system? That's what the auto trade magazines are saying. And I've seen that number in some instructions with new heater cores.
Have any of you mechanics out there got down to 0.00mV measured after a complete flush? Or how close? Or what about new cars? I'm not implying anything, just looking for actual observations and measurements.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/17/11 11:19 PM
I don't feel qualified to answer what the acceptible level is. nor do I have any volume of trials to say what new cars measure.
I am sure that number comes from a bit of research, and all joking a side, the amount of corrosion that is acceptible to cover up to the power train warranty runs out.
Lower is obviously better, but hard to maintain.
Quote:
Quote:
if it is actually dead nuts zero then no. No continuity so no problem.
I can't say how long it will last. it really has a lot to do with the corosion inhibitors in the coolant.
Do you feel under 400mV is ok in a automobile system? That's what the auto trade magazines are saying. And I've seen that number in some instructions with new heater cores.
Have any of you mechanics out there got down to 0.00mV measured after a complete flush? Or how close? Or what about new cars? I'm not implying anything, just looking for actual observations and measurements.
Posted By: denfireguy
Re: electricity in the radiator - 01/18/11 04:42 AM
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If you system is creating 12V, you have a new perpetual motion machine and free electricity. Start you car, run an inverter off it and power your electronics simply from the corrosion in your system.
A galvanic reaction is in the mV, not volts. I am not denying you have a problem, but I think the magnitude is wrong. I have never heard of this and I been messing with cars 30 years. I am a shade tree mechanic, not an expert, but I am a professional electrical engineer. You need to watch how the snake oil salesman is presenting the snake oil. Make sure he did not take the "oil" out of a rain barrel.......
Even if you had the perfect chemistry to form a primary cell, you would have from 1.2 to 2 Volts maximum. There is something else wrong. Disconnect the battery and measure to ground again. It should go away. If it does, I would look for a water temperature sensor with a broken insulator. It probably will not be easy to remove because of the electrolysis welding it into its socket.
Craig
