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6 lobes off a camshaft?!? #898501 01/07/11 12:03 PM 01/07/11 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	What would cause 6 lobes on the camshaft to get rounded off? (590 lift purple flat tappet) We used proper breakin procedure(25 min @ 3000)valve lash was never too tight. We were wondering if it could be defective camshaft? Any opinions would be appreciated!

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898502 01/07/11 12:13 PM 01/07/11 12:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: What would cause 6 lobes on the camshaft to get rounded off? (590 lift purple flat tappet) We used proper breakin procedure(25 min @ 3000)valve lash was never too tight. We were wondering if it could be defective camshaft? Any opinions would be appreciated! 2 things come to mind,something wasn't right and 25 minutes at 3000 rpm.Seriously,for six lobes to wear off,I would look at proper oiling and ajustments.What did you lube the cam and lifters with?Did you prime the oil system before starting?Are the spring pressures,and assemble heights and clearences correct? [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: B G Racing] #898503 01/07/11 12:20 PM 01/07/11 12:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	We installed the camshaft and lifters all with break-in oil and checked the valves several times with the specs out of mopar performance book! As far is a i know all neccesarry steps were taken.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898504 01/07/11 01:02 PM 01/07/11 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 957 MI, Lapeer M maximus super stock
maximus super stock M Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 957 MI, Lapeer	Check your valve spring height. Could be coil-binding.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: maximus] #898505 01/07/11 01:04 PM 01/07/11 01:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora A ademon master
ademon master A Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora	What was your spring PSI, did you remove the inner spring? did you use break in oil or a zink additive?

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: maximus] #898506 01/07/11 01:06 PM 01/07/11 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	Im quite sure the valve set up was good Dave @ mid american race engines worked on the heads and set them all up so im sure all that was good

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: ademon] #898507 01/07/11 01:10 PM 01/07/11 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	we used break in oil that they recomended with the cam.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898508 01/07/11 01:13 PM 01/07/11 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,031 Erda, UT 67Charger master
67Charger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,031 Erda, UT	Did you remove the inner springs for break in? Anything over about 250 open is asking for trouble. A lesson I learned the hard way too. 11.33 @ 118.46 on motor 10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898509 01/07/11 01:14 PM 01/07/11 01:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan G Get-X mopar
Get-X mopar G Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan	How old was the cam? Was it sitting around on a shelf for a while? MP had soft core problems through out the '90's. Not sure if it ever got corrected as I've been gone from there since 2000. '65 Belvedere '68 GTX '57 Dodge pickup

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: 67Charger] #898510 01/07/11 01:15 PM 01/07/11 01:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan G Get-X mopar
Get-X mopar G Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan	Quote: Did you remove the inner springs for break in? Anything over about 250 open is asking for trouble. A lesson I learned the hard way too. Good point, lots of cams wiped from this as well. '65 Belvedere '68 GTX '57 Dodge pickup

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Get-X] #898511 01/07/11 01:43 PM 01/07/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	The cam was new from summit. As far as i know we did not remove inner springs so that very well could be it...

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898512 01/07/11 01:59 PM 01/07/11 01:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,225 Charleston S sixpackgut Drag Week Mod Champion
sixpackgut Drag Week Mod Champion S Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,225 Charleston	did this happen during breakin or after some miles were put on it? Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: 67Charger] #898513 01/07/11 02:13 PM 01/07/11 02:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 182 NW of Indy T Thackdaddy member
Thackdaddy member T Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 182 NW of Indy	Quote: Did you remove the inner springs for break in? Anything over about 250 open is asking for trouble. A lesson I learned the hard way too. '71 Duster

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: sixpackgut] #898514 01/07/11 02:14 PM 01/07/11 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,884 Oregon hooziewhatsit master
hooziewhatsit master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,884 Oregon	When you put the lifters in, did they go in smoothly, or take a little work? If they don't spin when the engine is running, the cam will wipe in no time (when you took them out, how much force did it take?) If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: hooziewhatsit] #898515 01/07/11 02:25 PM 01/07/11 02:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	we made one half pass on the motor is all we went. The block was all machined up and good went in very smooth. when we took it apart the bottom of some of the lifters looked about like the cam lobes all busted up.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: 67Charger] #898516 01/07/11 02:36 PM 01/07/11 02:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: Did you remove the inner springs for break in? Anything over about 250 open is asking for trouble. A lesson I learned the hard way too. Same thing happened to me years back and after re-honeing,new bearings,rings oil pump etc, we broke in the next cam w/a lighter spring and that motor lasted me 5+ years street/strip. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Thumperdart] #898517 01/07/11 04:04 PM 01/07/11 04:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 I Live Here
Quicksilver440 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	The best thing to do after assembly is to turn the motor over by hand and make sure all the lifters are rotating before startup. I've had some barely rotate and I just swap the lifters around until I get good rotation on all of them.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Quicksilver440] #898518 01/07/11 05:25 PM 01/07/11 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	God bless roller cams...

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: emarine01] #898519 01/07/11 05:47 PM 01/07/11 05:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver 64Post master
64Post master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver	Roller lifters come apart too, albeit not at break-in. Solids take a bad rap from improper break-in/installation. This is just another case of improper break-in (likely too much spring pressure over the nose). I'd add EDM lifters (in addition to pulling the inner spring) to the rebuild next time (assuming it gets rebuilt).

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898520 01/07/11 10:07 PM 01/07/11 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,608 fresno ca M mikeysmopars top fuel
mikeysmopars top fuel M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,608 fresno ca	Buddy of mine just put that same came in a 440 and called Mopar Performance and talked to one of the tech guys and walked him through the whole break in at 3000 for 30 minutes with all the zink and break in oils and still had one go flat. They actually warrantied the cam package!!! Founder and CEO of the Central Valley Mopar Drag Pack

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898521 01/07/11 10:20 PM 01/07/11 10:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,840 The Swamp S Sixpak master
Sixpak master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,840 The Swamp	Of the ones I've seen start to go flat the top of the lobes had a pitted, cratered surface. This leads me to believe there was a problem with the cam itself, as if there was porosity in the core, and the lobe wore down to the porosity.

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Sixpak] #898522 01/07/11 10:36 PM 01/07/11 10:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	i will agree i believe the cam was most likley bad i too had a 590 m p cam take off lobes as well mine was older version ,, i know know they had issues then sure they still do

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898523 01/07/11 10:51 PM 01/07/11 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 716 Indiana 6 65dragnet super stock
65dragnet super stock 6 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 716 Indiana	I had the same problem a few years back with a MP 557 from ( actually two of them ) problem was spring pressure were all over the place. My fault for not checking new parts. E. Williams 65 Coronet 500 3400lbs w/d, 446, Indy EZ'S, A&A transbrake,Comp 650 lift cam, 6.50 @ 105 mph 1/8th 10.25 @ 130mph 1/4

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: 64Post] #898524 01/07/11 11:36 PM 01/07/11 11:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Roller lifters come apart too, albeit not at break-in. Solids take a bad rap from improper break-in/installation. This is just another case of improper break-in (likely too much spring pressure over the nose). I'd add EDM lifters (in addition to pulling the inner spring) to the rebuild next time (assuming it gets rebuilt). The 2 things that come to my mind are not removing the inner springs and DIRT ( lifters not rotating ). Fastest 300

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Jonnyj00] #898525 01/07/11 11:56 PM 01/07/11 11:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY H hemigod426 top fuel
hemigod426 top fuel H Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY	also 1.6 roller rockers will smoke cams also on break in MOPAR OR NO CAR

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: Thumperdart] #898526 01/08/11 12:28 AM 01/08/11 12:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART master
493_DART master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	I had a early 90's 509 MP cam that wiped a lobe - sent it back and it was tested and DID have soft metal .... you going to bring that Charger to eddyville this year ?

Re: 6 lobes off a camshaft?!? [Re: 493_DART] #898527 01/08/11 11:08 AM 01/08/11 11:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	RE: 493_DART Yup we will be bringing that up cept it is a 71 Satellite. We ran it a few times last year but had some wiring troubles hoping to get her back solid this year. We only have three drag cars to work on lol. You know my uncle Tim Jackson I believe I saw you there while he was talkin to ya.

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