|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879755
12/14/10 12:44 PM
12/14/10 12:44 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
|
From what I've seen, alcohol can pick you up between 2 and 4 tenths. It seems to pick up lower compression motors up more than higher. So if your at 11:1 and go alcohol, I would expect 4 tenths, if your at 13:1, I would expect 2 tenths. (in 1/4 mile)
Injection is worth some on it's own, so I would look for somewhere around 2 tenths in the 1/4 with injection.
Everyone see different results, this is just what I've seen over the years and with my experience.
Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: DavidDean]
#879757
12/14/10 01:42 PM
12/14/10 01:42 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
I've changed to methanol(pro systems SV-1) picked up close to 2 tenths 12.5:1 CR.The only draw backs are hard starting in cold weather and a little more fuel system maintenance.I can purchase methanol locally for about $150.00/drum.So far I really like it.
.2 in the 1/8th mile or 1/4?
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879758
12/14/10 02:23 PM
12/14/10 02:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,924
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,924
NC
|
I only have limited experience, so FWIW my opinion. Typically in hot weather you can see 0.3 tenths in the 1/4 mile, so maybe .2 in the 1/8th mile. The torque improvement can show more improvement in the 1st half of the track. In cold weather, the ET difference will be less. And in mineshaft air it might be too close to call. But people have reported different results in different combos. I also am a firm believer that alcohol can make a car more consistant from less change with weather changes. But some gas combos are very consistant too. If you go alcohol injection, give serious thought to a gas primer/idle system. This helps put/keep heat in the motor, easier cool weather starting, saves fuel, etc. Recommended, but not required ! 
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879764
12/14/10 05:12 PM
12/14/10 05:12 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
and also need to know what to do with all of this compression if I make the switch.
? What do you mean?
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 440Jim]
#879765
12/14/10 05:21 PM
12/14/10 05:21 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,406
Diego-Town, CA
Diego_Ted
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,406
Diego-Town, CA
|
Quote:
I only have limited experience, so FWIW my opinion.
Typically in hot weather you can see 0.3 tenths in the 1/4 mile, so maybe .2 in the 1/8th mile. The torque improvement can show more improvement in the 1st half of the track.
In cold weather, the ET difference will be less. And in mineshaft air it might be too close to call. But people have reported different results in different combos.
I also am a firm believer that alcohol can make a car more consistant from less change with weather changes. But some gas combos are very consistant too.
If you go alcohol injection, give serious thought to a gas primer/idle system. This helps put/keep heat in the motor, easier cool weather starting, saves fuel, etc. Recommended, but not required !
 and A+ for the primer plus gas system. It sure makes my life better. I'm with Ryan J. What do you mean? Alky loves compression.
Diego
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: RyanJ]
#879768
12/14/10 06:35 PM
12/14/10 06:35 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
Quote:
and also need to know what to do with all of this compression if I make the switch.
? What do you mean?
Just thought I was on the high side for going alky? 
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879769
12/14/10 06:47 PM
12/14/10 06:47 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
|
I have always heard alcohol runs better with a higher CR. You can also run VP M5 if regular alcohol is not enought. We just bumped the CR ratio up from 14.2-1 to 15.2-1 because I changed over to alcohol.
Last edited by MRMOPAR570; 12/14/10 06:51 PM.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: DavidDean]
#879772
12/14/10 07:57 PM
12/14/10 07:57 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
|
If you go with a Ron's the throttle response is unreal.Also I can do a hard burn-out(dragster)jam on the brakes back it up & stage,never have to clean it out. Your days of over heating issues will be a thing of the past. At the 1st of the season I brought 3 drums 162 gallons of 99.9% alcohol for $314.76 with tax. That's a little more info. to help you deceide  PS have not run mine a lot,but every oil change the oil has been clear.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879773
12/14/10 08:36 PM
12/14/10 08:36 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and also need to know what to do with all of this compression if I make the switch.
? What do you mean?
Just thought I was on the high side for going alky?
It's a high static #, but with wide LSA & alot of duration, I'm sure the cranking pressure & dynamic is'nt that radical.
Methanol is unusual stuff from my limited research on it, it has a really high RON # like in the low 130's, but a low MON # in low 100's. I just know alot of turbo cars especially 4 cyl stuff with really high boost (30+) are going to it. & if it lives in those apps, it will be more than fine in yours.
I'd start out on cheap M1 VP & then try their new M5 stuff... I talked to one guy @ track last fall who was running the M5 in his BB GM Dragster & was real happy with it. I've never tried it, but if I was running meth I certainly would. I'm injecting M1 into my turbo motor, M5 is not recommended for pre-compressor due to it's increased volitility...
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: RyanJ]
#879776
12/14/10 10:24 PM
12/14/10 10:24 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and also need to know what to do with all of this compression if I make the switch.
? What do you mean?
Just thought I was on the high side for going alky?
It's a high static #, but with wide LSA & alot of duration, I'm sure the cranking pressure & dynamic is'nt that radical.
Methanol is unusual stuff from my limited research on it, it has a really high RON # like in the low 130's, but a low MON # in low 100's. I just know alot of turbo cars especially 4 cyl stuff with really high boost (30+) are going to it. & if it lives in those apps, it will be more than fine in yours.
I'd start out on cheap M1 VP & then try their new M5 stuff... I talked to one guy @ track last fall who was running the M5 in his BB GM Dragster & was real happy with it. I've never tried it, but if I was running meth I certainly would. I'm injecting M1 into my turbo motor, M5 is not recommended for pre-compressor due to it's increased volitility...
This is good to know Ryan. With the thought of changing to alky, does this change much of what we talked about doing to the engine last week?
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: Bigbeep]
#879777
12/14/10 10:26 PM
12/14/10 10:26 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
Well Brian, I don't have a bunch of info, but mine picked up .17 in the 1/4 (flying toilet). Not much to add about the throttle response. Unreal! I was running it like it was on gas the first couple times and it didn't like it. Starting bumping the temp up before staging, and found it likes right around 190-200*. My 1/8 picked up almost a .1
HTH, Beep
Thanks John. I would be happy with .10 from the change to alky, .10 from some additional weight loss that is coming and .10 from a few tricks we are thinking about for the engine. Goal is 5.65 in the 1/8th next time out.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879778
12/14/10 11:01 PM
12/14/10 11:01 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and also need to know what to do with all of this compression if I make the switch.
? What do you mean?
Just thought I was on the high side for going alky?
It's a high static #, but with wide LSA & alot of duration, I'm sure the cranking pressure & dynamic is'nt that radical.
Methanol is unusual stuff from my limited research on it, it has a really high RON # like in the low 130's, but a low MON # in low 100's. I just know alot of turbo cars especially 4 cyl stuff with really high boost (30+) are going to it. & if it lives in those apps, it will be more than fine in yours.
I'd start out on cheap M1 VP & then try their new M5 stuff... I talked to one guy @ track last fall who was running the M5 in his BB GM Dragster & was real happy with it. I've never tried it, but if I was running meth I certainly would. I'm injecting M1 into my turbo motor, M5 is not recommended for pre-compressor due to it's increased volitility...
This is good to know Ryan. With the thought of changing to alky, does this change much of what we talked about doing to the engine last week?
Not really other than if you did a Toilet/injection, the intake work is not as critical.... if you do carb Meth it "should" actually like the new intake even more...
Cam wise... it will still pick up about same no matter what the fuel, that's just a matter of ramp speed & some more duration. That's gonna help no matter what.
To be honest I think if you did injection with M5 on a 420 intake & lose 100 lbs you'll be where you need to be, without screwing with cam, so you could limit all your changes to external of motor. The added TQ the meth will put in will also really help cover up that glide lacking gear in the first 1/2 track.
Every dyno test I have ever done on Carbureted gas VS Carb meth, they always pick up 20-25 Ft lbs across board & usually about 20 HP. & I'm not using junk gas carbs to test against... it's just realistic gain to be expected if both carbs are good. I have not tested Gas VS injected methanol, (since it's a difficult thing to switch & test quickly) but everyone claims the TQ increase is even greater....
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: RyanJ]
#879779
12/14/10 11:33 PM
12/14/10 11:33 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
Not really other than if you did a Toilet/injection, the intake work is not as critical.... if you do carb Meth it "should" actually like the new intake even more...
Cam wise... it will still pick up about same no matter what the fuel, that's just a matter of ramp speed & some more duration. That's gonna help no matter what.
To be honest I think if you did injection with M5 on a 420 intake & lose 100 lbs you'll be where you need to be, without screwing with cam, so you could limit all your changes to external of motor. The added TQ the meth will put in will also really help cover up that glide lacking gear in the first 1/2 track.
Every dyno test I have ever done on Carbureted gas VS Carb meth, they always pick up 20-25 Ft lbs across board & usually about 20 HP. & I'm not using junk gas carbs to test against... it's just realistic gain to be expected if both carbs are good. I have not tested Gas VS injected methanol, (since it's a difficult thing to switch & test quickly) but everyone claims the TQ increase is even greater....
I might think about doing the cam as well since it is a fairly small cost and I will be into the engine anyway. Still giving some thought to sending the engine to you to put on the dyno for before/after pulls.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879780
12/15/10 12:03 AM
12/15/10 12:03 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Not really other than if you did a Toilet/injection, the intake work is not as critical.... if you do carb Meth it "should" actually like the new intake even more...
Cam wise... it will still pick up about same no matter what the fuel, that's just a matter of ramp speed & some more duration. That's gonna help no matter what.
To be honest I think if you did injection with M5 on a 420 intake & lose 100 lbs you'll be where you need to be, without screwing with cam, so you could limit all your changes to external of motor. The added TQ the meth will put in will also really help cover up that glide lacking gear in the first 1/2 track.
Every dyno test I have ever done on Carbureted gas VS Carb meth, they always pick up 20-25 Ft lbs across board & usually about 20 HP. & I'm not using junk gas carbs to test against... it's just realistic gain to be expected if both carbs are good. I have not tested Gas VS injected methanol, (since it's a difficult thing to switch & test quickly) but everyone claims the TQ increase is even greater....
I might think about doing the cam as well since it is a fairly small cost and I will be into the engine anyway. Still giving some thought to sending the engine to you to put on the dyno for before/after pulls.
I'm all into cam regrinds, trust me, but I just remember looking @ valve relief depth on the spec sheet the other day.... I'd love to regrind cam too but... I really don't think you're gonna have room without fly cutting pistons. 
I believe CP picked the depth on those reliefs based off of the free drop of the valves in the heads & the existing cam specs... now days I dictate the relief depths on Diamonds & usually make them overly generous for issues like this in future, but CP likes to run the piston to valve tight & go off of all known specs. Tighter piston to valve makes hair more power, & it allows you not to have so much dome if you don't have that extra relief depth volume to make up for.... So their are reasons they chose those relief depths but.... it's not gonna help when we want to put 8 degrees more ramp speed in it.
As long as you're kosher with cutting the pistons as well, then can do the cam grind.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: RyanJ]
#879781
12/15/10 01:17 AM
12/15/10 01:17 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not really other than if you did a Toilet/injection, the intake work is not as critical.... if you do carb Meth it "should" actually like the new intake even more...
Cam wise... it will still pick up about same no matter what the fuel, that's just a matter of ramp speed & some more duration. That's gonna help no matter what.
To be honest I think if you did injection with M5 on a 420 intake & lose 100 lbs you'll be where you need to be, without screwing with cam, so you could limit all your changes to external of motor. The added TQ the meth will put in will also really help cover up that glide lacking gear in the first 1/2 track.
Every dyno test I have ever done on Carbureted gas VS Carb meth, they always pick up 20-25 Ft lbs across board & usually about 20 HP. & I'm not using junk gas carbs to test against... it's just realistic gain to be expected if both carbs are good. I have not tested Gas VS injected methanol, (since it's a difficult thing to switch & test quickly) but everyone claims the TQ increase is even greater....
I might think about doing the cam as well since it is a fairly small cost and I will be into the engine anyway. Still giving some thought to sending the engine to you to put on the dyno for before/after pulls.
I'm all into cam regrinds, trust me, but I just remember looking @ valve relief depth on the spec sheet the other day.... I'd love to regrind cam too but... I really don't think you're gonna have room without fly cutting pistons.
I believe CP picked the depth on those reliefs based off of the free drop of the valves in the heads & the existing cam specs... now days I dictate the relief depths on Diamonds & usually make them overly generous for issues like this in future, but CP likes to run the piston to valve tight & go off of all known specs. Tighter piston to valve makes hair more power, & it allows you not to have so much dome if you don't have that extra relief depth volume to make up for.... So their are reasons they chose those relief depths but.... it's not gonna help when we want to put 8 degrees more ramp speed in it.
As long as you're kosher with cutting the pistons as well, then can do the cam grind.
It's time to make this thing boogie. I am ready to pull out all the stops and get an 8 second time slip while I'm at it.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: MegaDart]
#879784
12/15/10 06:48 PM
12/15/10 06:48 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
Not to argue with your advice Ryan but if I had to pay for M! or M5 I seriously doubt I'd run alky. One of the best things about Alky is that it's cheap! Many racers including me feel the VP meth is just a marketing ploy and money grab and do not buy it.
What does M5 cost? I have only bought M1 for my turbo's metahnol injection system. I think it was $6 a gallon, which I thought was a but steep since we run the cheap stuff normally @ around $3.75 a gallon, but I was standing there @ the VP dealer getting my C16 & said throw in 5 gallons of M1.
So I guess I'd try The cheap $3 meth VS the M5 on dyno & find out if it's really worth it or not. I just like to see tangible results...
I'm gonna try a Q16 against C16 on a 17:1 motor here in a month or 2 just to see if it is worth the added expense & hassle.
I don't know what Brian is running in the motor now gas wise, but @ over 16:1 I'm sure it is'nt cheap stuff..... So I don't think fuel cost savings is really any huge factor for him @ least on this particular application.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: DavidDean]
#879787
12/15/10 08:49 PM
12/15/10 08:49 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
I paid $305 for a drum of M-5. That price will vary around the country. I got a price in the Dallas area for $275. People who run M-5 say its good for about .1-.15 over regular methanol. M-5 contains Nitro parrafin. The M-5s little pricey for me to run on a regular basis. The last drum of Methanol I bought here was about $150/drum. I paid $200 in Vegas.I know some racers who run some reclaimed methanol from the oil field who say its ok I think they paid around $110/drum. I'm leary of the reclaimed stuff.I'm certainly no alky expert though.
@ $305 a drum that's only $5.65 a gallon... Granted you will use almost 2X as much per pass as gas, but still even if during extended warm up etc you do use 2X as much, you are only into it less than $12 compared to same amount of gasoline, which for good stuff can range anywhere from $12-$18 a gallon or more. I'm paying Just over $12 a gallon for C16, Q16 by the drum around here is around $14.80 a gallon... C25 $15/gallon.... Sunoco 116 around $14/gallon... so The M5 even @ it's higher cost & double useage, would still be cheaper than a high octane race gas in the end.
I thought about putting my Turbo motor on straight meth, but decided since I do want to drive it on street some, my cell just is'nt big enough...
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: DavidDean]
#879789
12/16/10 10:16 AM
12/16/10 10:16 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
I've changed to methanol(pro systems SV-1) picked up close to 2 tenths 12.5:1 CR.The only draw backs are hard starting in cold weather and a little more fuel system maintenance.I can purchase methanol locally for about $150.00/drum.So far I really like it.
Are you using the vacuum referenced regulator with the SV1?
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879790
12/16/10 11:42 AM
12/16/10 11:42 AM
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
|
What does that thing weigh?I would just spend the money and find you a better top end,cam,etc..mine runs 5.60's at 3100 pounds on Q-16..on mild tune..and 90 degree weather.but your talking pro stock top end with a highly modified 420 manifold.Your car runs real close to what my old 410 inch motor ran with old 16 degree heads,the best it would run was 9.20 with c-25..keep plugging away at it.. I could set you up with a good motor??
1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block
2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang
Uratchko Racing Engines
www.URE-RACING.com
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879791
12/16/10 12:33 PM
12/16/10 12:33 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,632
Lubbock,TX
DavidDean
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,632
Lubbock,TX
|
Quote:
Quote:
I've changed to methanol(pro systems SV-1) picked up close to 2 tenths 12.5:1 CR.The only draw backs are hard starting in cold weather and a little more fuel system maintenance.I can purchase methanol locally for about $150.00/drum.So far I really like it.
Are you using the vacuum referenced regulator with the SV1?
Yes
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879792
12/16/10 03:37 PM
12/16/10 03:37 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,924
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,924
NC
|
Quote:
Fuel cost isn't a concern though.
Good to get that across. You are looking for performance gain, not cost savings. I wanted cost savings 1st, improved ability to repeat/consitant dial-in (bracket racing), and reduced heat for round robin racing (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th round), putting 5 rounds with 10 minutes between each.
Since I make 150 runs per year, fuel cost paid for my Flying toilet in less than 2 years. And that was from $7.75/gallon 110 octane gas, not $12 fuel. Some racers make 50, some 350 per year.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: FASTFISH420]
#879793
12/16/10 03:54 PM
12/16/10 03:54 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
What does that thing weigh?I would just spend the money and find you a better top end,cam,etc..mine runs 5.60's at 3100 pounds on Q-16..on mild tune..and 90 degree weather.but your talking pro stock top end with a highly modified 420 manifold.Your car runs real close to what my old 410 inch motor ran with old 16 degree heads,the best it would run was 9.20 with c-25..keep plugging away at it..
I could set you up with a good motor??
I'm at 3040lbs race weight right now. Going to attempt to remove 140 lbs over the winter (I have a plan that won't leave my car looking like a cut up pro stocker). So, even at the reduced weight I still have some work to do. Trying not to break the bank.....was thinking about a big inch all alum big block, but I just can't get over the price tag to do it when I don't need to go 5.20's. Would love to have the engine you have now, but I'm sure it also isn't cost effective either. 
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: FASTFISH420]
#879796
12/16/10 09:08 PM
12/16/10 09:08 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
There's nothing cost effective about any of this stuff.... 
I agree 100%. Just looking for the "most" cost effective way to get there from where I'm at. 
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: FASTFISH420]
#879801
12/17/10 01:22 PM
12/17/10 01:22 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,765
quick77rt
Parts Problem
|
Parts Problem
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,765
|
When I was in Super Stock pulling, the oil burners ruled and a few who were into the alch scene was making up ground quickly and soon took over the classes, many running 2-3 big T-18s in series, with alot more comp then mentioned here, maybe using the HD diesel setup allowed this. Now 2/3 of the class is alch based and making alot of power If I remember correctly its bad as heck seeing part of the ex manifold glowing red and part of the intake looking iced up... If any of it equates over to drag racing it might be worth the grief 
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#879803
12/17/10 01:26 PM
12/17/10 01:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
If fuel cost is not a concern, stick with gas. If alky picks up a combo with a carb, 3 to 4 tenths, the set up was not even close to right.
Monte
exactly
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#879804
12/17/10 04:31 PM
12/17/10 04:31 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
|
Quote:
If fuel cost is not a concern, stick with gas. If alky picks up a combo with a carb, 3 to 4 tenths, the set up was not even close to right.
Monte
I agree with the above statement, but there are still advantages to going alky for those that run in alot of heat and it will be more consistant from round to round when there is limited cool down time.
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#879805
12/18/10 01:51 AM
12/18/10 01:51 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Quote:
Quote:
If fuel cost is not a concern, stick with gas. If alky picks up a combo with a carb, 3 to 4 tenths, the set up was not even close to right.
Monte
I agree with the above statement, but there are still advantages to going alky for those that run in alot of heat and it will be more consistant from round to round when there is limited cool down time.
Not really. A gas car can run just as cool as an alky car, most just don't do it. We don't even run a radiator in our drag radial car. We tow to the lanes, fire the car at 100*, burnout and pass, the car is 120-130 at the stripe. Now if a car with no radiator or water pump, only makes 20* on a run, you know one with a cooling system can. If you run the car at the same temp every run, it WILL be consistent, does not matter if that temp is 100 or 200. If you don't let it make a lot of heat during the run, a chiller will have it back to ice cold in a matter of minutes.
I personally would rather have the gas and the chiller any day, as fool with the aggravation of the alky, but thats just me.
Now I realize you don't want to tow a bracket car to and from the lanes, but you don't have to either. If you chill it and drive it to the lanes, it won't get hot and a proper cooling system will have it cooling down, while driving back
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#879806
12/18/10 10:50 AM
12/18/10 10:50 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
poisondart2
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
|
Quote:
If fuel cost is not a concern, stick with gas. If alky picks up a combo with a carb, 3 to 4 tenths, the set up was not even close to right.
Monte
Not trying to argue Monte but most people do pick up a few tenths with it and it is hard for me to believe all these folks cant tune a carb for gas including carb builders.Just saying
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: poisondart2]
#879807
12/18/10 12:24 PM
12/18/10 12:24 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
MegaDart
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
|
Quote:
I personally would rather have the gas and the chiller any day, as fool with the aggravation of the alky, but thats just me.
Monte I know of your dislike for alky and that is fine but please tell me what aggravations you speak of??
I have run both fuels and will tell you from a "bracket" racer standpoint alky is hard to beat. When I ran gas in my TS car it was 2-3 times the work, tow up, tow back, extra cooling and charging of both the car and golf cart, etc.
I have been called back for a final round before I even got out of my car after a semi  . Put alky in a drive back up for the final. That ain't gonna happen on gas...
I feel there is a lot of bad info flying around the www about alky that is just not true. Like extra maintenance required?? Nothing extra for me, leave fuel system full and change oil 25-30 passes, same as gas.
The ONLY real difference I've ever seen is hard starting when it is really cold, once or twice a year around here. And a squirt of gasoline thru the carb usually solves the problem for initial fire up.
As for the chiller, that is also a lot of work. I ran one on my prostock snowmobile. Bilge pump mounted in cooler full of ice water with hydraulic quick disconnects. Is that what you use??
Gains alky vs. gas not sure who you were referring to but I did give some real world examples.
On MOST combos carb vs. carb will net .1-.2.
Carb vs. Injection as much as .3.
That is a nice gain for sure but I'll stick with my Rupert dominator for it's consistancy and fuel consumption. Won the first night out with it also!!
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: MegaDart]
#879808
12/18/10 01:21 PM
12/18/10 01:21 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
|
At most of the big $$$ bracket races there's enought cars at the start you have time to cool your engine,but toward the end(which is late at night)you do good to get some fuel & most of the time have to gauge your tires in the stageing lanes. With the alcohol starting before 12:00 AM & finshing after 12:00 PM the car seems to repeat the numbers better. The only thing I see anyone needing to do when switching over to alcohol is buy your FI or Carb. from someone who knows what they are doing. They can get you close enought at the start that you can fine tune it yourself,alone with the GREAT HELP from the fellow Racers here on Moparts. 
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
|
|
|
Re: Going to alky.....how much difference?
[Re: MegaDart]
#879809
12/18/10 01:30 PM
12/18/10 01:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,924
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,924
NC
|
Quote:
I have run both fuels and will tell you from a "bracket" racer standpoint alky is hard to beat.
I agree. When done properly, it is great for bracket racing, and saves money.
This is my fuel cost comparison for a typical 5 passes down the 1/4 mile plus warm up time/fuel.
This is driving to/from the pits, which is a long distance at my local track, and my 511 drinks some fuel, and a smaller motor should use less.
110 Gas: (5 passes x 0.7 gal/pass + 0.5 warmup) x $7.75/gallon = $31
Methanol:(5 passes x 1.5 gal/pass + 1.0 warmup) x $2.70/gallon = $23
Pump E85:(5 passes x 1.0 gal/pass + 0.5 warmup) x $2.55/gallon = $14
My comparison was with $7.75/gal 110 octane gasoline. I hate to see what it would cost to run 150-300 passes a year on $12 extra high octane race gasoline.
|
|
|
|
|
about E85 me-self ... LOTS of good reports I have heard ...and some BIG POWER increases possible.
