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Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... #873701
12/07/10 06:39 PM
12/07/10 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Write it off to paranoia or just having too many experiences w/ paying machine shops for "quality" work and not getting what I've paid for. Regardless, I hauled my "ready to assemble" 448 block done by another shop some years back in a different part of the same state (not close to me) over to the local shop that did the freshen-up work on my 452's block this summer. I asked them to give it the and double-check the work.

1. Check bore sizes, concentricity, and verify the hone job was actually done WITH torque plates (been burned on that one already).

2. Check the aluminum main cap installation to verify main bore sizing and concentricity.

3. Correct the CRAPPY chamfer job done on the top of the bores that looks like my 6-year old did it w/ a rat-tailed file.

4. Remove what's left of the old dipstick tube that's still stuck in the block.

There are actually a few more items on the list I provided w/ the block, but you get the idea. Until I find out what the story is on this, I'm not making any more moves towards building anything w/ this block.



EDIT: I'll also mention that I do own the tools required to do a good bit of this checking, but do this type of stuff so infrequently that I'm looking for an experienced hand to do the measurements.

Last edited by Blew My Budget!; 12/07/10 06:47 PM.
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: BradH] #873702
12/07/10 06:47 PM
12/07/10 06:47 PM
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Posts: 31,034
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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AndyF  Offline
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Posts: 31,034
Oregon
Bad machine work is a bummer. Not only do you pay for the machine work, but sometimes the actual parts are ruined too. So you end up paying for everything multiple times over. I was lucky to find a good machine shop to work with years ago. It isn't a fancy shop but the guy takes his time and does it right.

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: AndyF] #873703
12/07/10 07:38 PM
12/07/10 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
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Quote:

Not only do you pay for the machine work, but sometimes the actual parts are ruined too.



Example: The block in question has already been bored .040" over since they said it didn't clean up at .030". And they've already done the install on the old-style aluminum main caps. If the bore work is crap, I'm still sitting on a set of .040" pistons, but the block "could" be taken out again. But what happens if they hosed the main cap installation? Does the block automatically become a boat anchor?

This stuff drives me effing nutz sometimes.

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: AndyF] #873704
12/07/10 07:43 PM
12/07/10 07:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,449
nc
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earthmover Offline
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yea i know that feeling all to well myself. had a shop build my 340 years ago they charged my 320.00 for a comp cam and lifters and when i got the motor going ran like a pos..... took it apart and took the block over to another shop cylinder out of round and a few other things so im kinda funny now as to who does the work...

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: AndyF] #873705
12/07/10 07:44 PM
12/07/10 07:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Offline
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Park Forest, IL
Went through that a couple years ago with "The best Mopar guy in Chicago".

1. Put one rod/piston into block-Piston stuck above deck .250". Guy ordered wrong pistons. Took 4 weeks to get right pistons.

2. Decked the block with the alignment dowels still in the block. Had to drill them out.

3. Went to install cam- Bearings so tight cam would not go in. (He had the cam specifically so he could fit the bearings)

Trust no one.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: earthmover] #873706
12/07/10 07:48 PM
12/07/10 07:48 PM
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organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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this is why i've invested in my own measuring equipment- been burned! i've found a hole in the wall one man shop who knows i double check his work, and he puts everything exactly where i want it. i love this guy!


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: BradH] #873707
12/07/10 09:43 PM
12/07/10 09:43 PM
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Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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Delray beach, Florida
nothing surprises me anymore. i just finished checking and correcting a block for another Moparts member. he already had the block to two other shops. the first one messed it up and by measuring things himself, he saw some disturbing things. he took it to a second shop to fix the first shops mistakes. to say he was disappointed when he got it back would be an understatement.
when i started checking things i found the cylinders were hour glass shaped as much as .0045" the decks (which were already cut twice) were off front to rear by .005 and side to side by almost .007" to make matters worse, they weren't machined 45 degrees to the crank centerline. what a mess.
it's amazing what shows up when you put a block in a CNC machining center. the nice thing is it sure makes things easier to correct.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: BradH] #873708
12/07/10 09:49 PM
12/07/10 09:49 PM
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Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim Offline
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440Jim  Offline
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NC
Quote:

1. Check bore sizes, concentricity, and verify the hone job was actually done WITH torque plates (been burned on that one already).


I had my 511 CID low deck done at Weston Machine in NJ. I was so happy with the result, I took my old 471 block to them a few years ago to have the same aluminum cap treatment and give the bores a fresh hone for new rings.

When I picked it up, they said; "Was this honed with torque plates originally?". It didn't appear so when they freshened it. The previous shop that did it seemed fine, and I trusted them, but that made me wonder if they actually had a BB Mopar torque plate...


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: Performance Only] #873709
12/07/10 09:51 PM
12/07/10 09:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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organ
Quote:


it's amazing what shows up when you put a block in a CNC machining center. the nice thing is it sure makes things easier to correct.


that's the shizznitt right there!


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: Performance Only] #873710
12/07/10 09:53 PM
12/07/10 09:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
Hot 340 Offline
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Hot 340  Offline
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Quote:

it's amazing what shows up when you put a block in a CNC machining center. the nice thing is it sure makes things easier to correct.


True, but there are putzs running them too Dan. Some people can screw up anything with anything.

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: Hot 340] #873711
12/07/10 10:15 PM
12/07/10 10:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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Performance Only  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Delray beach, Florida
Quote:

Quote:

it's amazing what shows up when you put a block in a CNC machining center. the nice thing is it sure makes things easier to correct.


True, but there are putzs running them too Dan. Some people can screw up anything with anything.




that's probably true
as unfortunate as it might be, it seems there are a lot of machinists that just don't care, and just as many that do, but have old worn out equipment that can't hit the numbers. when you get the best of both you thank them and treat them well, this industry is a dying breed.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: Performance Only] #873712
12/07/10 10:38 PM
12/07/10 10:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,475
SW Ohio
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cgall Offline
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Does anyone provide a check sheet with all measurements recorded after a machining job anymore?

I wouldn't trust Warren Johnson to give me a block without a check sheet that I could verify with my own tools before assembly.

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: cgall] #873713
12/07/10 10:47 PM
12/07/10 10:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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dusturbd340W5  Offline
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my guy gave me 1


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: dusturbd340W5] #873714
12/07/10 10:48 PM
12/07/10 10:48 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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Quicktree  Offline
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Quote:

my guy gave me 1


that really sounds weird

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: Quicktree] #873715
12/07/10 10:50 PM
12/07/10 10:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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Kissimmee Fl.
maybe to you but he asked a ? and I answered that ?


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: Quicktree] #873716
12/07/10 10:50 PM
12/07/10 10:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
Hot 340 Offline
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Hot 340  Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

my guy gave me 1


that really sounds weird


oh man. just stop it

Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: cgall] #873717
12/07/10 10:50 PM
12/07/10 10:50 PM
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Posts: 2,442
LOWELL IN
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QWK_ENUF Offline
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LOWELL IN
MY MOTOR WAS DONE by mendezmotorsports, he told me my motor would run 10.20's and the damn thing runs 9.80's. now i got to get certified and all that stuff

6344429-nointake.jpg (49 downloads)

WAXER
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: QWK_ENUF] #873718
12/07/10 10:51 PM
12/07/10 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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Kissimmee Fl.
Quote:

MY MOTOR WAS DONE by mendezmotorsports, he told me my motor would run 10.20's and the damn thing runs 9.80's. now i got to get certified and all that stuff




that's a good problem to have


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: QWK_ENUF] #873719
12/07/10 10:58 PM
12/07/10 10:58 PM
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Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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MoparBilly Offline
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Phoenix, AZ
Quote:

MY MOTOR WAS DONE by mendezmotorsports, he told me my motor would run 10.20's and the damn thing runs 9.80's. now i got to get certified and all that stuff




Not good, Qwik..
He just cost you a bunch more money than you had planned for!!!

Ignorance is bliss I guess, or I've gotten really lucky, never had a machine work based problem yet...


"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: Complete lack of trust in previous shop's block work... [Re: MoparBilly] #873720
12/08/10 12:20 AM
12/08/10 12:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Quote:

Ignorance is bliss I guess...



In my case, I think it's how I got into this situation in the first place starting back around 1998.







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