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Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
#873312
12/06/10 11:14 PM
12/06/10 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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I was reading some old post where guys where saying it is ok to use the Mopar steel shim gaskets with Eddy heads and others said not to. I am planning on pulling the heads off this winter to shave them a little to bump up the compression on my 440. While I am at it I am considering switching from my current .027" Cometic MLS gaskets to a .020" Mancini steel shim gasket (part# MRE86754; .018"-.020" thick) would get me around a .040" quench height which I believe is ideal?
Is it ok to use the steel shim head gasket with Eddy heads with a light coating of copper coat on both sides of the gasket?
I also see Mopar has a steel shim gasket listed as part# P5155237 which sell for $150/set. They are listed on the Mancini website as having a .020" thickness. Could these be MLS gaskets?
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: tywebb2]
#873313
12/07/10 01:02 PM
12/07/10 01:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
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Posts: 5,080
organ
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a friend of mine is running steel shim with eddie heads with absolutely no problems. he sprayed the gaskets with coppercoat or something similar, and they're working fine.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: tywebb2]
#873314
12/07/10 01:55 PM
12/07/10 01:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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I have a 451 that's been together 4 years built this way no problems.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: AndyF]
#873318
12/07/10 07:43 PM
12/07/10 07:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
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organ
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i think the key is to use a sealant which remains tacky. the spray coppercoat works great. we've had zero issues through a whole season.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#873321
12/07/10 08:24 PM
12/07/10 08:24 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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I used steel shims with copper coat, never had a problem.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: deaks]
#873322
12/07/10 08:31 PM
12/07/10 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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I called Mancini today and they said their .020" steel shim head gaskets with a spray of copper coat will work fine with Eddy heads. They are $34.95 for the pair so I figure why not give them a try. If they work my quench height will right at .040" which will be great  If for some reason they don't work I will save the .027" Cometics I already have and reuse them.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: tywebb2]
#873323
12/07/10 09:03 PM
12/07/10 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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master
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Canton, Ohio
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While I agree with Andy that on some engines a steel shim between a aluminum head and steel block motor can cause problems. The B and RB block isnt one of them, IMO! The steel shim with aluminum heads have been successfully used for years on these motors by a variety of members here. As a matter of fact, Ive yet to see or hear of a single Failure in doing so. But, Granted, there is a whole lot less people using them on these motors vs the other gasket options. Ive ran them on my Eddy head motor for a 5 year stretch. After removal there was no hint of any seal breach or brinneling anywhere. The seal actually looked Better then my old 906 steel head shim seal. As it had hints of compression breach loss after a shorter duration period. I sprayed my gaskets with High temp 1500* aluminum ceramic paint. Worked fine for me and Id do it again!  This was with comp around 11.1 , mike
Last edited by Sport440; 12/08/10 02:48 AM.
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: Sport440]
#873324
12/07/10 09:37 PM
12/07/10 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
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Jarrettsville, MD
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Is a .039"-.040" quench height safe for the 440 or should I stick with the current Cometics which give me a .047" quench height? Would I really notice a difference between the two when it comes to ET? If not then I won't even bother and will reuse my Cometics.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: tywebb2]
#873326
12/07/10 10:00 PM
12/07/10 10:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
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master
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Rock Springs
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anyone know the bore size on these steel head gaskets? I was thinking there were in the 4.41-4.42 range.
Looks like one can pickup .2-.3 points in compression, over the popular PT gaskets.
Those work well with large champfer bores, or 440 Source gaskets that have the chambers super close to the fire ring.
FYI
The PT gaskets are 4.5 bore and .040 thick.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#873327
12/07/10 10:05 PM
12/07/10 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
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Jarrettsville, MD
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The bore on the Macini steel shims is listed as 4.45" with a .018"-.020" compressed thickness.
If .040" quench is perfect that means the steel shim gasket would be just right. Does anybody have an idea if I am giving up any ET by running a .047" quench height vs. a .040" quench height? I was just thinking this might be an area where I could squeeze another drop of ET out of the existing engine while I mill the heads but if it isn't worth the effort then I won't mess with the steel shims.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: tywebb2]
#873328
12/07/10 10:44 PM
12/07/10 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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master
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Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
The bore on the Macini steel shims is listed as 4.45" with a .018"-.020" compressed thickness.
If .040" quench is perfect that means the steel shim gasket would be just right. Does anybody have an idea if I am giving up any ET by running a .047" quench height vs. a .040" quench height? I was just thinking this might be an area where I could squeeze another drop of ET out of the existing engine while I mill the heads but if it isn't worth the effort then I won't mess with the steel shims.
Of course  Not only are you giving up quench, along with that your giving up compression.
But we are talking about drops of ET here as you state. .05 to .1 + maybe IMO There is no Absolute perfect spec to give you.
Silvolites calc shows a comp change from a .027 gasket to .020 gasket with your previous stated engine specs with a 75CC head. Will increase comp from 10.834 to a 11.031 Lets not forget about the added quench benifit.
If it were me Id shave the heads .050 for the .027 Cometics and if need be squeeze the extra ET drops out of it later if need be with the .018 shims. mike
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: Sport440]
#873329
12/07/10 11:04 PM
12/07/10 11:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Good thinking Mike. I will run the Cometics I have and keep the steel shim option in my pocket for now.
I think I am only going to shave the heads .030" to get me to 10.45:1 (.55 increase over current). I may try .040" off (10.65:1) but that would put me around .080" ptv clearance on the intake and that has me a little concerned. I would rather be safe then sorry.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: tywebb2]
#873330
12/07/10 11:42 PM
12/07/10 11:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
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Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Good thinking Mike. I will run the Cometics I have and keep the steel shim option in my pocket for now.
I think I am only going to shave the heads .030" to get me to 10.45:1 (.55 increase over current). I may try .040" off (10.65:1) but that would put me around .080" ptv clearance on the intake and that has me a little concerned. I would rather be safe then sorry.
If your on the Fence between .030/.040 and have that head off and on the mill machine, go .040
You will regret it later if you dont!
.080 ptv clearence is plenty on the intake.
I say go .050, but if your concerned .040 IMO  mike
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Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?
[Re: Sport440]
#873331
12/08/10 12:00 AM
12/08/10 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Yeah...I probably will go .040".
A guy at work told me I need to make sure the machine shop that mills the heads has a PCM. Said the finish using the PCM is much smoother and necessary for aluminum heads. Is he speaking the truth?
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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