Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys?

Posted By: tywebb2

Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 03:14 AM

I was reading some old post where guys where saying it is ok to use the Mopar steel shim gaskets with Eddy heads and others said not to. I am planning on pulling the heads off this winter to shave them a little to bump up the compression on my 440. While I am at it I am considering switching from my current .027" Cometic MLS gaskets to a .020" Mancini steel shim gasket (part# MRE86754; .018"-.020" thick) would get me around a .040" quench height which I believe is ideal?

Is it ok to use the steel shim head gasket with Eddy heads with a light coating of copper coat on both sides of the gasket?

I also see Mopar has a steel shim gasket listed as part# P5155237 which sell for $150/set. They are listed on the Mancini website as having a .020" thickness. Could these be MLS gaskets?

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 05:02 PM

a friend of mine is running steel shim with eddie heads with absolutely no problems. he sprayed the gaskets with coppercoat or something similar, and they're working fine.

Posted By: HemiRick

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 05:55 PM

I have a 451 that's been together 4 years built this way no problems.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 07:28 PM

MLS is the recommended way to go when using aluminum heads and cast iron block. Steel shims don't have any ability to move with the aluminum head as it grows.

Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 10:25 PM

Dang gone it Andy..I was going to do this ..this winter too !

Posted By: AndyF

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 10:49 PM

Some people use the steel shims and don't have a problem with it. When the factory tried it they had huge warranty problems.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 11:43 PM

i think the key is to use a sealant which remains tacky. the spray coppercoat works great. we've had zero issues through a whole season.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/07/10 11:54 PM

BOTH Eddy and 440s say to use the MLS types. Using a steel-shim can etch the alum head.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 12:00 AM

Quote:

BOTH Eddy and 440s say to use the MLS types. Using a steel-shim can etch the alum head.

the redoubtable felpro 1009 brinnels the head quite nicely! i'm happy to pay that price for a reliable seal.

Posted By: deaks

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 12:24 AM

I used steel shims with copper coat, never had a problem.

Posted By: tywebb2

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 12:31 AM

I called Mancini today and they said their .020" steel shim head gaskets with a spray of copper coat will work fine with Eddy heads. They are $34.95 for the pair so I figure why not give them a try. If they work my quench height will right at .040" which will be great

If for some reason they don't work I will save the .027" Cometics I already have and reuse them.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 01:03 AM

While I agree with Andy that on some engines a steel shim between a aluminum head and steel block motor can cause problems.

The B and RB block isnt one of them, IMO! The steel shim with aluminum heads have been successfully used for years on these motors by a variety of members here. As a matter of fact, Ive yet to see or hear of a single Failure in doing so. But, Granted, there is a whole lot less people using them on these motors vs the other gasket options.

Ive ran them on my Eddy head motor for a 5 year stretch. After removal there was no hint of any seal breach or brinneling anywhere.

The seal actually looked Better then my old 906 steel head shim seal. As it had hints of compression breach loss after a shorter duration period.

I sprayed my gaskets with High temp 1500* aluminum ceramic paint.

Worked fine for me and Id do it again!

This was with comp around 11.1 , mike

Posted By: tywebb2

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 01:37 AM

Is a .039"-.040" quench height safe for the 440 or should I stick with the current Cometics which give me a .047" quench height? Would I really notice a difference between the two when it comes to ET? If not then I won't even bother and will reuse my Cometics.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 01:53 AM

Quote:

Is a .039"-.040" quench height safe for the 440 or should I stick with the current Cometics which give me a .047" quench height? Would I really notice a difference between the two when it comes to ET? If not then I won't even bother and will reuse my Cometics.

.040 is perfect.

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 02:00 AM

anyone know the bore size on these steel head gaskets? I was thinking there were in the 4.41-4.42 range.
Looks like one can pickup .2-.3 points in compression, over the popular PT gaskets.
Those work well with large champfer bores, or 440 Source gaskets that have the chambers super close to the fire ring.
FYI
The PT gaskets are 4.5 bore and .040 thick.

Posted By: tywebb2

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 02:05 AM

The bore on the Macini steel shims is listed as 4.45" with a .018"-.020" compressed thickness.

If .040" quench is perfect that means the steel shim gasket would be just right. Does anybody have an idea if I am giving up any ET by running a .047" quench height vs. a .040" quench height? I was just thinking this might be an area where I could squeeze another drop of ET out of the existing engine while I mill the heads but if it isn't worth the effort then I won't mess with the steel shims.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 02:44 AM

Quote:

The bore on the Macini steel shims is listed as 4.45" with a .018"-.020" compressed thickness.

If .040" quench is perfect that means the steel shim gasket would be just right. Does anybody have an idea if I am giving up any ET by running a .047" quench height vs. a .040" quench height? I was just thinking this might be an area where I could squeeze another drop of ET out of the existing engine while I mill the heads but if it isn't worth the effort then I won't mess with the steel shims.

Of course

Not only are you giving up quench, along with that your giving up compression.

But we are talking about drops of ET here as you state. .05 to .1 + maybe IMO There is no Absolute perfect spec to give you.

Silvolites calc shows a comp change from a .027 gasket to .020 gasket with your previous stated engine specs with a 75CC head. Will increase comp from 10.834 to a 11.031 Lets not forget about the added quench benifit.

If it were me Id shave the heads .050 for the .027 Cometics and if need be squeeze the extra ET drops out of it later if need be with the .018 shims. mike

Posted By: tywebb2

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 03:04 AM

Good thinking Mike. I will run the Cometics I have and keep the steel shim option in my pocket for now.

I think I am only going to shave the heads .030" to get me to 10.45:1 (.55 increase over current). I may try .040" off (10.65:1) but that would put me around .080" ptv clearance on the intake and that has me a little concerned. I would rather be safe then sorry.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 03:42 AM

Quote:

Good thinking Mike. I will run the Cometics I have and keep the steel shim option in my pocket for now.

I think I am only going to shave the heads .030" to get me to 10.45:1 (.55 increase over current). I may try .040" off (10.65:1) but that would put me around .080" ptv clearance on the intake and that has me a little concerned. I would rather be safe then sorry.

If your on the Fence between .030/.040 and have that head off and on the mill machine, go .040

You will regret it later if you dont!

.080 ptv clearence is plenty on the intake.

I say go .050, but if your concerned .040 IMO

mike

Posted By: tywebb2

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 04:00 AM

Yeah...I probably will go .040".

A guy at work told me I need to make sure the machine shop that mills the heads has a PCM. Said the finish using the PCM is much smoother and necessary for aluminum heads. Is he speaking the truth?

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 06:27 AM

that would be PCD, and yes, it leaves a nice finish. a CBN cutter can make them like glass also. either one will do a great job.

Posted By: deaks

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/08/10 04:05 PM

If it were me Id shave the heads .050 for the .027 Cometics and if need be squeeze the extra ET drops out of it later if need be with the .018 shims. mike

Mine are milled .050 with shims but we can buy 97 oct pump fuel.

Posted By: tywebb2

Re: Steel Shim Head Gaskets Ok With Eddys? - 12/09/10 01:03 AM

I only have .120" of ptv clearance on the intake valve right now so I think .050" would be a little too tight. I wish there was an easy way to fly cut the pistons....then .050" would be no problem.