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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#802960
09/27/10 03:01 AM
09/27/10 03:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Basically because they're not building for muscle car guys. 6 speeds usually have two overdrive gears instead of one like a 5-sp. If the extra overdrive gear is just there to lessen the drop in rpm between 4th gear(1:1 ratio) and overdrive, I don't see the point. I could see this irritating some yuppie driving a lexus but it wouldn't matter to me.
You don't see the advantage of a 6 spd?,.....Dodge Viper for example, 6 spd double OD Tremec T56, with a 4:10 rear gear allows you awesome street performance and 190 MPH top end speeds;...that's the advantage of 6 spds....but you Mopar guys are just warming up to 5 spds,..finally  ,....another 10 years you'll see the benefits of 6 gears 
And how many muscle car guys actually will drive their car like that to see any benefit from a 6-speed? 99% of your market for this just wants 4-sp gearing for the track and the street with a nice overdrive gear to make highway cruising comfortable. 
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#802961
09/27/10 04:18 AM
09/27/10 04:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: 67Charger]
#802962
09/27/10 04:31 AM
09/27/10 04:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
Hey I resemble that remark....
I view my driveshaft as a rev limiter. When I can't see out of the rear view mirror because it's vibrating so much, it's time to slow down.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#802963
09/27/10 09:40 AM
09/27/10 09:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
fbernard
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
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Quote:
Quote:
And how many muscle car guys actually will drive their car like that to see any benefit from a 6-speed? 99% of your market for this just wants 4-sp gearing for the track and the street with a nice overdrive gear to make highway cruising comfortable.
Having too much spread between 1:1 and overdrive is not always nice on the road. My Tremec (TKO-600, .64 overdrive) feels like a 6-speed missing the 5th gear. The minimum speed in 5th is the posted speed limit on public highways here, so I often have to switch back to 4th just to maintain RPMs above 1500 (worse things in life, I know).
And on a racetrack, I can't accelerate past 150mph because of the spread. 6500 RPM in 4th, all is fine, when I upshift the revs drop too much and I can only maintain that speed. There aren't too many tracks fast enough to require a good 5th ratio, I only know a couple here.
Had I known that, I'd have gone for the .80 final ratio version.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: Keisler Sales]
#802964
09/27/10 12:07 PM
09/27/10 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
All you need to install ours is Beer and band aids. 
Good luck Jamie!!
You forgot the 
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802966
09/27/10 01:17 PM
09/27/10 01:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
MadMatt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
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Jamie,
Thanks for the continuing updates, but you still haven't told us A-body guys for certain whether there will be a transmission for our application, i.e. 1970 Dart. Come on, the suspense is killing me!
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: MadMatt]
#802967
09/27/10 02:15 PM
09/27/10 02:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
JamiePasson
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
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Matt, Rest assured, There will be an A Body unit just for you guys.  In fact, this is the first one to manufacturing. And everyone says A Bodies don't get any respect. Jamie
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: Supercuda]
#802972
09/28/10 10:47 AM
09/28/10 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
I had to read that twice but
that's what I like about the Richmond 5 speeed approach-- real deep first, and 1:1 5th, couple it with a 2.76 or 2.45 rear, you get a stronger ring gear, coupled with a low driveshaft speed.
want to know why the crown vic police interceptors are electronically limited to under 130 MPH? driveshaft speed.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: patrick]
#802973
09/28/10 10:52 AM
09/28/10 10:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Another benefit of running 1:1 in fifth is that the shafts are all locked together (no gear mesh is in use) so gear wear is reduced and spin losses are minimized. The flip side of getting a deeper first gear is that one of the gears has to get smaller (reducing torque capacity) or the gearbox has to get bigger to maintain gear sizes. It's all a tradeoff. 
Last edited by Fury Fan; 09/28/10 10:53 AM.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802974
09/28/10 10:59 AM
09/28/10 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Ragtop,
This is where the numbers worked out to have virtually the same tailshaft rpm change between gears. I have had plenty of people balk at .75. We figure .70 is good overall.
Jamie
.75 isn't quite enough OD...IMHO...~.7 is about the best compromise. look at some of the more typical auto and manual OD's out there, they're all in that range (A500/518--.69, A833OD--.73, 700R4/4L60E--.73, etc)...
4.10's with a .7 is an effective 2.87 rear gear, .75 it's 308's....
so, with a 28" tall tire, 75mph (typical freeway speed in MI) would be 3700 RPM in 1:1, 2900 with a gear vendor's .78, 2800 with .75, 2600 with a .7, or 2400 with a TKO's .64....
for this combo, personally I like the .7 or .64....if it's still cranking along at near 3000 RPM at 75mph, like it would with a gear vendors or a .75, it doesn't seem worth it.
now, if the gears had been designed such that you had say, a 3.3 first, then .75 would be a nice OD to couple with a 3.55, and still have the first gear multiplication of a 4.10 with a 2.85 first, but a reduction in driveshaft speed....
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#802978
09/29/10 09:21 AM
09/29/10 09:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
JamiePasson
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
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Scott, Not to derail the thread, but you did a good job derailing the thread! I am just teasing you. I know what is involved with making stuff as I am sure that many others out there know as well. Making driveline stuff is even more difficult than trim pieces that just need to sit there and look pretty. I am not taking away from those pieces by any means. I certainly have no intention of this item being vaporware. We have a tremendous investment thusfar on this project. I plan on seeing it throught. Jamie
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