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Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800360
09/14/10 09:36 AM
09/14/10 09:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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B G Racing  Offline
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Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Try this,set the suspension at 1" rise,0 to 1/32" toe,1/4 degree positive on the camber and 1 to 3 degrees positive caster.Tighten up the torsion bars to limit the travel or install front limiters for a maximum of 3" travel.Try and set the front ride height for 27+" from wheel lip to ground with no more than a 2" rake measuring at the front rocker(just behind the fender) to rear rocker as near to the tire as possible.Make sure before alignment that the pitman arm,idler arm and all tie rods and bushings are good,including the lower controll arms.Tighten the strut rods as much as possible.

Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: B G Racing] #800361
09/14/10 10:19 AM
09/14/10 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Tig  Offline OP
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A shed in England
Quote:

Try this,set the suspension at 1" rise,0 to 1/32" toe,1/4 degree positive on the camber and 1 to 3 degrees positive caster.Tighten up the torsion bars to limit the travel or install front limiters for a maximum of 3" travel.Try and set the front ride height for 27+" from wheel lip to ground with no more than a 2" rake measuring at the front rocker(just behind the fender) to rear rocker as near to the tire as possible.Make sure before alignment that the pitman arm,idler arm and all tie rods and bushings are good,including the lower controll arms.Tighten the strut rods as much as possible.




Sounds like a plan , currently set @ 0 deg toe, 0 deg camber at 1 inch and 5 deg caster. 6 inch travel and 27 inch to fender lip through wheel C/L. Car doesn't usually have any stability issues unless it is really windy. Car also rides way higher than +1 inch when racing, looks like a gasser


Do you use 20 degrees angle in and out to check caster? Won't tightening the strut arms alter caster angle too? Upper UCA's and strut bars are adjustable BTW.
Thanks


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: B G Racing] #800362
09/14/10 10:44 AM
09/14/10 10:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,513
PA
moparacer Offline
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moparacer  Offline
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PA
Strut rods and more air in the slicks.

My car used to do that and solid strut rods helped it out quite a bit. Didnt eliminate it but cut it way down.


67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: moparacer] #800363
09/14/10 11:07 AM
09/14/10 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Tig  Offline OP
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A shed in England
Quote:

Strut rods and more air in the slicks.

My car used to do that and solid strut rods helped it out quite a bit. Didnt eliminate it but cut it way down.




Car has Alloy adjustable strut bars with no bushes, when you say solid do you mean ones with no bushes?
Vids were taken early in the day, we were going up on pressure each pass.
Thanks


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: moparacer] #800364
09/14/10 11:14 AM
09/14/10 11:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019
Finland
mafo Offline
super stock
mafo  Offline
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Finland
This is after I limited front end travel to about 4",it was not as bad as yours before and I don t really know if it helped performance but it looks better...
I have stock suspension with 1/2 shortened strut rods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUNba0TQt68


-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800365
09/14/10 11:20 AM
09/14/10 11:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Quote:

Try this,set the suspension at 1" rise,0 to 1/32" toe,1/4 degree positive on the camber and 1 to 3 degrees positive caster.Tighten up the torsion bars to limit the travel or install front limiters for a maximum of 3" travel.Try and set the front ride height for 27+" from wheel lip to ground with no more than a 2" rake measuring at the front rocker(just behind the fender) to rear rocker as near to the tire as possible.Make sure before alignment that the pitman arm,idler arm and all tie rods and bushings are good,including the lower controll arms.Tighten the strut rods as much as possible.




Sounds like a plan , currently set @ 0 deg toe, 0 deg camber at 1 inch and 5 deg caster. 6 inch travel and 27 inch to fender lip through wheel C/L. Car doesn't usually have any stability issues unless it is really windy. Car also rides way higher than +1 inch when racing, looks like a gasser


Do you use 20 degrees angle in and out to check caster? Won't tightening the strut arms alter caster angle too? Upper UCA's and strut bars are adjustable BTW.
Thanks





How did you achieve 6 degrees (I'am assuming positive) on the caster?Normally tightening the strut rods(but not to bind) will help positive caster.Usually Mopars are set with 1/2 to 1 degree nagative caster and need to go positive.Usually too much negative caster,bump steer or loose componants cause the condition your experiencing.I very seldom see stock Mopar front ends experience bump steer unless something is really screwed up.

Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: B G Racing] #800366
09/14/10 11:38 AM
09/14/10 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Tig  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Mafo: Yours looks way better than mine .

BG: Front suspension isn't all stock, I have adjustable UCA's with heim joints. This enabled me to get 5 degrees of + castor angle. The only poly bush is in the stock LCA, but these have stiffening plates. The strut rods are adjustable with a heim joint on the K end.
It could well be that something is really screwed up
All the ball joints are new as are tie rod ends. The only thing I haven't changed is the steering box and the drag link idler arm which I'm going to change in the close season. I have one more race to do this year next weekend so I'll see if I can rig up some sort adj travel limiting arrangement before then.
Thanks again


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800367
09/14/10 11:52 AM
09/14/10 11:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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B G Racing  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Mafo: Yours looks way better than mine .

BG: Front suspension isn't all stock, I have adjustable UCA's with heim joints. This enabled me to get 5 degrees of + castor angle. The only poly bush is in the stock LCA, but these have stiffening plates. The strut rods are adjustable with a heim joint on the K end.
It could well be that something is really screwed up
All the ball joints are new as are tie rod ends. The only thing I haven't changed is the steering box and the drag link idler arm which I'm going to change in the close season. I have one more race to do this year next weekend so I'll see if I can rig up some sort adj travel limiting arrangement before then.
Thanks again




I'am going to take a shot here,using the solid strut to pull 6 degees positive is toeing in the lower control arms to a acute angle on the LCA mounting pin and bushing.Back off the strut to only 1 or 2 degees positive and see what happens.

Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: B G Racing] #800368
09/14/10 12:09 PM
09/14/10 12:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
master
Tig  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Quote:

I'am going to take a shot here,using the solid strut to pull 6 degees positive is toeing in the lower control arms to a acute angle on the LCA mounting pin and bushing.Back off the strut to only 1 or 2 degees positive and see what happens.





Thanks OK I can lengthen the struts an equal amount on both sides (same turns). Check castor and try again. I could easily do this at the track. Initially I used the UCA's to get the castor angle.
Thanks for your help


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800369
09/14/10 03:17 PM
09/14/10 03:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 531
USA
5
540DUSTER Offline
mopar
540DUSTER  Offline
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Posts: 531
USA
Is your steering box and idler arm in the stock location?

Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: 540DUSTER] #800370
09/14/10 03:30 PM
09/14/10 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
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Tig  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Quote:

Is your steering box and idler arm in the stock location?




Yes.
I've also remembered that we heated the steering arms on the hubs and raised them when I was running smaller front tyres and more torsion bar load for a same rake / ride height Wondering if thats causing a problem


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800371
09/14/10 04:52 PM
09/14/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019
Finland
mafo Offline
super stock
mafo  Offline
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Finland
Quote:

Mafo: Yours looks way better than mine .

You are just polite, English as you are


-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800372
09/14/10 05:08 PM
09/14/10 05:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 531
USA
5
540DUSTER Offline
mopar
540DUSTER  Offline
mopar
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Posts: 531
USA
You really need to read the mopar chassis book,maybe someone can scan it for you.If you bent the steering arms you got problems.You need to plot the toe cruve of the wheels(do one at a time)Once you know what the wheels are doing you can begin fixing it.I would bet that one wheel is toeing in when the other is going out when you land from the wheelie.Its like a oscillation thing.My car used to do what yours does when I hit the brakes at the top end,except my wheels wouldn't stop shaking until the car slowed down.It was so bad it broke the idler arm bushing and cost me a new pair of nickers.Is that the Kings english I'am looking for?

Last edited by 540DUSTER; 09/14/10 05:26 PM.
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: 540DUSTER] #800373
09/14/10 05:35 PM
09/14/10 05:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
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Leon441  Offline
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Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Bob was hitting the nail on the head. You just did to Tig. I think you have too much ride height. 27" fender lip to the ground with whatever tire Bob said. I'll bet that gets the upper control arm level. You need the ride height adjusted so the upper ball joint is as far from the frame as possible. I always say level and nobody understands that becuase the control arm pivots are higher in the front than the rear of control arm.

I think you have too much ride height. Your A-arm is laying down to start with. Then you launch and the arm lays down even more pulling the top of the tire in more than the bottom. You can limit travel to help but initial problem is still there if this is the case. The ball joint on the control arm is too low to start with. Raise and lower the car with tire size not the torsion bar.

I don't know if you can get rid of all of this problem with stock parts. But a good start is to have the arms angled right to start with. I had this problem even with the upper arms level. I think my problem was too much caster. A little is good a lot is better. Not necessarily.

Fortuneately we went tubular on everthing in 1998 and the car was fixed. But, I remember those troubles.

Leon
Most people try to make their car too low. I think you might be a little high. Check it and see.


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Leon441] #800374
09/15/10 02:59 PM
09/15/10 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig Offline OP
master
Tig  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Thanks for all the comments and advice. I've takin it on board, I have the mopar chassis book so I'll try to get my brain round it all over the close season and see if we can improve, if not eliminate the condition.
Thanks again.


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: SloMo Launch vid [Re: Tig] #800375
09/20/10 03:36 PM
09/20/10 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 32
New Jersey
G
Greg_Gessler Offline
member
Greg_Gessler  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 32
New Jersey
Amazing video, perfectly clear picture. What camera takes video like that??


QuadrajetParts.com Carburetor Parts Superstore Carter, Ford/Motorcraft & Rochester www.QuadrajetParts.com Rebuild kits and Hard to find parts.
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