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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: Troy]
#77582
08/19/08 06:40 PM
08/19/08 06:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
That is very cool!! Good job!!
Could you tell us what they dinged you on??
A half inch split in the #1 spark plug wire boot, some imperfections in the interior driver door reflector, service NOS issue wiper arm blades (instead of factory) and oil that was on the natural metal parts. I put oil on to keep them from flash rusting and the factory obviously did not do that. All but the "oil" deduction problems have been corrected. If I could only have it judged today, it just might get that....... 
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Re: Taking it to the next level?
[Re: anlauto]
#77585
08/19/08 07:23 PM
08/19/08 07:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Ouch....23 points for that???? Tough crowd 
A deduction of .0078 doesn't sound as bad! 
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Re: Taking it to the next level?
[Re: ECS]
#77586
08/19/08 09:24 PM
08/19/08 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
mopar346
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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WOW! That's all I got, WOW!
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: Troy]
#77587
08/19/08 11:01 PM
08/19/08 11:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Thanks for the info Dave, your an asset to the hobby. I really mean it. 
All we did was build and present the car. There still needed to be a venue that allowed the restoration efforts to be fairly assessed. I have many friends involved in judging programs and have a tremendous respect for those who work to support these programs. I personally support the OE judging program due to the objective manner in which they treat their participants. Some of the other programs incorporate judges who restore cars as a profession or sell products that are used within restoration industry. I believe those situations (could) have the propensity to be a conflict of interest with regards to objective judging. I personally was bitten by the “politics” of one judging venue a couple of years ago. Because I spoke out against these unethical practices, I automatically became foe to certain magazine personnel and other cronies who were/are “in bed” with the principles that were involved. I think that when you have a group of judges who are genuinely focused on their program (without the possibility for conflicts of interest) fairness and integrity will be the result. For the record, even if the car would have received a sub level or lesser score, I would still feel the same regarding the judging system that is headed by Keith Rohm and his team. A big THANKS to those individuals for providing the OE judging program at the Mopar Nationals!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77588
08/20/08 02:48 AM
08/20/08 02:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 636
California
sixpaktoogo
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 636
California
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Quote:
Quote:
What did it score???????????? The suspense is killing me!!!!!!!!!!
Just in from Mr. Keith Rohm.....
2008 Nationals OE possible point totals:
** 2978 **
1970 Challenger:
** 2955 **
Percentage score:
99% (plus) in total.
(Old record 98.7%)
Dave,
Who had the old record? Was it your black Hemi Cuda? If so, what is your perspective on the points each car received, compared to the effort, parts, and research in each one? I too (like Alan), think 23 points is tough to swallow! Seems out of line to me.
Thanks, Dan 
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: cataclysm80]
#77592
08/26/08 02:34 PM
08/26/08 02:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
looks like things in this thread have slowed down a bit.
So how about it Dave, any chance we'll see a CD full of your before and after pics?
Or something like a copy of that book of info backing up your restoration?
Tav
Tav,
You must think I am a glutton for punishment. I heard of another forum that was "incorrectly" discussing the aspects of my core support blackout, so I decided to check it out and post pictures that documented the correct original patterns. WOW!!!! The thread went from one point of arguing to another and then another. Before I knew it, I was having my EXACT statements typed back to me as if I was completely on the flip side of the topic. It would be like me saying that my favorite color was blue only for someone to respond and chastise me for not conveying that blue was my favorite color.  Crazy to say the least. (It was just one particular person who also posts on this forum. Most people over there were extremely nice and cordial.) Anyway I would definitely consider offering a CD of what we did. Enough information was collected and compiled to do just that.
I guess I should expect that someone will view the CD only to say that we should have done the restoration on a white 440 A/C equipped Challenger with a light blue stripe, rather than the car we decided to refinish. 
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77593
08/26/08 08:49 PM
08/26/08 08:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,850
Central Coast, Calif.
Snoopy
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,850
Central Coast, Calif.
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Quote:
I guess I should expect that someone will view the CD only to say that we should have done the restoration on a white 440 A/C equipped Challenger with a light blue stripe, rather than the car we decided to refinish.
That's what I have been saying all along, you should have done the restoration on a white 440 A/C equipped Challenger with a light blue stripe, rather than the car you decided to refinish. 
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77594
08/26/08 08:50 PM
08/26/08 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 636
California
sixpaktoogo
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 636
California
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Quote:
Quote:
looks like things in this thread have slowed down a bit.
So how about it Dave, any chance we'll see a CD full of your before and after pics?
Or something like a copy of that book of info backing up your restoration?
Tav
Tav,
You must think I am a glutton for punishment. I heard of another forum that was "incorrectly" discussing the aspects of my core support blackout, so I decided to check it out and post pictures that documented the correct original patterns. WOW!!!! The thread went from one point of arguing to another and then another. Before I knew it, I was having my EXACT statements typed back to me as if I was completely on the flip side of the topic. It would be like me saying that my favorite color was blue only for someone to respond and chastise me for not conveying that blue was my favorite color. Crazy to say the least. (It was just one particular person who also posts on this forum. Most people over there were extremely nice and cordial.) Anyway I would definitely consider offering a CD of what we did. Enough information was collected and compiled to do just that.
I guess I should expect that someone will view the CD only to say that we should have done the restoration on a white 440 A/C equipped Challenger with a light blue stripe, rather than the car we decided to refinish.
Dave,
Count me in on a CD!!!!!!
Dan
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: FY1TA]
#77597
08/27/08 12:10 AM
08/27/08 12:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
What deduction did they give for the repop or incorrect battery cables ?
You must have my car confused with someone else’s. BOTH cables were NOS issue. (Not factory assembly line issue; NOS issue.) While incorrectly labeling the cables, you completely overlooked the reproduction battery they were connected to. Hmmm! Be nice Mr. G
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: FY1TA]
#77598
08/28/08 08:00 AM
08/28/08 08:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 466
U.S.A.
Captain Flapjack
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 466
U.S.A.
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Quote:
What deduction did they give for the repop or incorrect battery cables ?
why do you feel the cables are not correct?
can you tell us what led you to believe they are repop or incorrect?
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77599
08/28/08 08:06 AM
08/28/08 08:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 466
U.S.A.
Captain Flapjack
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 466
U.S.A.
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Quote:
For those who were able to see the Challenger interior/carpet at the Nationals, they saw the type of quality that will soon be available to everyone
ecs, you wrote that on another thread
you didnt mention that you got a points deduction for reproduction carpet
so does that mean that the nationals judging awards the same points for reproduction parts as original?
and if someone was lucky enough to locate an nos or excellent original carpet to use in their car, that they wouldnt be awarded any more points than another car that had a new repo carpet in it?
no knock to you or your car (its absolutely great!!), just trying to understand the oe judging guidelines
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: Captain Flapjack]
#77600
08/28/08 12:38 PM
08/28/08 12:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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I am not an OE judge nor was I the one to do the OE judging on my car. Your questions should be directed towards the principles who govern that program. To expand on your thoughts however, what about paint work? No one seems to ever question the non original paint jobs on OE cars. Why are some specifics completely ignored in one area but others are scrutinized under a microscope? Could it be that some folks overlook their own (tolerated) shortcomings while calling out the (differing) short comings of others? What about NOS components for C body vehicles that are cut up and fabricated to "appear as correct" for an E body vehicle? Or what about bodywork that is hidden by (non-original) paint? I believe Keith Rohm was absolutely clear when stating that components were scored (twice) for both originality and condition. If it is original but in less than pristine condition, then it scores as “correct” but possibly gets a deduction for condition. If it is reproduction, it cannot receive points for originality but can receive points for pristine “condition“. Another area you didn’t reference, that is continuously over looked, is the final appearance of a vehicle after the restoration. You can incorporate every NOS part known to man and if it is put together in a fashion that does not emulate a factory vehicle, what was the purpose? There is nothing more deflating than for someone to comment that a vehicle “almost” looks like it just came off the assembly line. That is like someone coming up to a guy with a toupee and telling him it almost looks real or it is the most realistic looking toupee they have seen! Sorry but close doesn't work in some desired scenarios. It is one thing to boast about correct parts, it is another to do those parts their due diligence after they are assembled. Simply possessing or owning the best canvas, paint brushes or oil paints does not make someone a Picasso!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77601
08/28/08 12:41 PM
08/28/08 12:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
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 Well said..............
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
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