|
I tryed E 85 on old blue
#775132
08/16/10 02:23 PM
08/16/10 02:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,771
Cedar Lake IN
CRT
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,771
Cedar Lake IN
|
This weekand, Tommy let me use his E 85 carb and I went to US41 to try it out. I like how it runs cooler, I like the 10th I pick up. I am going to make the switch before Norwalk. The car ran 10.13 @ 130 1.35-60ft 10.14 @ 131 1.36-60ft 10.14 @ 131 1.37-60ft then I had an issue with the carb going WOT, I was bending the throttle bracket. I am going to fix that and try to get the car to run 10.05 to 10.10 E 85 is the hot ticket. 
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: CRT]
#775135
08/16/10 02:41 PM
08/16/10 02:41 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
poisondart2
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
|
Quote:
about 10*-15* cool, But its the time it takes to get to 190*, I can sit in stageing lanes with the motor running and not worry about getting too hot before a pass. ya the cheap part is cool.
E85 was $2.05 in town
Great to hear and it's $2.39 here but better than 13 dollars a gallon I pay now. I cant wait to use it.
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: ajcasini]
#775137
08/16/10 02:57 PM
08/16/10 02:57 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,552
Michigan
Kiddart
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,552
Michigan
|
what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform
Thank you
Kiddart
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Kiddart]
#775138
08/16/10 02:59 PM
08/16/10 02:59 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
I want to convert my high compression wedge over to E85. Seeing these kind of results makes me want to do it sooner rather than later.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Kiddart]
#775139
08/16/10 03:04 PM
08/16/10 03:04 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
PA
ajcasini
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
PA
|
Quote:
what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform
On a normal 4150 conversion you are looking at 350-400.
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: CRT]
#775143
08/16/10 04:57 PM
08/16/10 04:57 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
The only thing I dont like, is it runs fat when on the intermediate circuit when driving back on the return road, I wish I can go with a two circuit E85 carb, all E85 kits for Doms are three circuit.
I finally got my Lm-1 back so sometime soon I'm going
to check mine out again.... I got it idling nice now
(on my 396ci)but I need to check the mid again
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#775150
08/16/10 10:22 PM
08/16/10 10:22 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
PA
ajcasini
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
PA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform
On a normal 4150 conversion you are looking at 350-400.
Who does it for that price? 
Send ajcasini a pm. He knows what he is doing and is great to deal with. I will be having a little talk with him in the near future.
John is right I do the carbs for that price. There are several others out there that do them as well around that price.
There are also some DIY kits out there that will work for the 4150 and Doms. The 4150 is a little trickier as to make the carb work best on E85 a booster change is normally needed.
If anyone has questions pm me or email at ajcasiniracing@hotmail.com
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: modified1090]
#775151
08/16/10 10:26 PM
08/16/10 10:26 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
PA
ajcasini
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
PA
|
Quote:
i love it too
i hope this isn't considered a highjack but what are you guys watching in the weather do make dialin decisions, temp, humidity, water grains, what?
i run pretty consistent a round 2 or 3 hundreths from day to night
John I do not watch the weather normally when I am running normal brackets at PRP. However I do notice that the humidity seems to affect my ET the most. If the humidity goes up the car slows down.
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#775156
08/17/10 08:39 PM
08/17/10 08:39 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
Quote:
Saw E-85 at a staion near work today $2.52 a Gallon! I guess it's too late for me to swap my 440-6 over..lol
Of course you can't compare gallon to gallon as you have to use significantly more E85 than gasoline. The gain in heat energy is approximately 10% for straight ethanol. Just remember all that heat doesn't go to making HP. Approximately 45% goes out the tail pipe, 30% goes out the cooling system, and 25% makes useable power. 25% of 10% is only 2.5% - so if everything is right, you might gain 2.5% in power - and that's with straight ethanol. Obviously with E85 it will be something less than 2.5%. Since race gas and ethanol have about the same octane rating, if you consider detonation as the limiting factor for making power, it's a wash. The big bennie would come in latent heat of evaporation, aka., heat of vaporization or cooling. With the cooler charge you could possibly run a higher CR and stay out of detonation. Remember, the benefit in HP to running a higher CR really flattens out after about 12:1. After that the engine stresses start to go way up ( look how diesel engines are built ) while power gains rapidly deminish. Add this to the costs involved in modifying your fuel system to handle the addition fuel, toxicity/ afinity for water with ethanol, possible valve recession and lubrication issues, and - well, I aint sold yet. I realize that it will be difficult to put a $ number to all these factors, and some will occur over time, but to some extent, they will occur. JMHO, and I applaude those that are trying it ( even if they gotta deal with green boosters and jet blocks  ). I'll keep pumpin Ethal for a while. 
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Crizila]
#775157
08/17/10 09:03 PM
08/17/10 09:03 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
Saw E-85 at a staion near work today $2.52 a Gallon! I guess it's too late for me to swap my 440-6 over..lol
Of course you can't compare gallon to gallon as you have to use significantly more E85 than gasoline. The gain in heat energy is approximately 10% for straight ethanol. Just remember all that heat doesn't go to making HP. Approximately 45% goes out the tail pipe, 30% goes out the cooling system, and 25% makes useable power. 25% of 10% is only 2.5% - so if everything is right, you might gain 2.5% in power - and that's with straight ethanol. Obviously with E85 it will be something less than 2.5%. Since race gas and ethanol have about the same octane rating, if you consider detonation as the limiting factor for making power, it's a wash. The big bennie would come in latent heat of evaporation, aka., heat of vaporization or cooling. With the cooler charge you could possibly run a higher CR and stay out of detonation. Remember, the benefit in HP to running a higher CR really flattens out after about 12:1. After that the engine stresses start to go way up ( look how diesel engines are built ) while power gains rapidly deminish. Add this to the costs involved in modifying your fuel system to handle the addition fuel, toxicity/ afinity for water with ethanol, possible valve recession and lubrication issues, and - well, I aint sold yet. I realize that it will be difficult to put a $ number to all these factors, and some will occur over time, but to some extent, they will occur. JMHO, and I applaude those that are trying it ( even if they gotta deal with green boosters and jet blocks ). I'll keep pumpin Ethal for a while.
It takes 30% more E-85 to make the same BTU as gas
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#775158
08/17/10 09:55 PM
08/17/10 09:55 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
|
Quote:
I finally got my Lm-1 back so sometime soon I'm going
to check mine out again.... I got it idling nice now
(on my 396ci)but I need to check the mid again
YAY!!!!
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Leigh]
#775160
08/17/10 10:38 PM
08/17/10 10:38 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!
I'm not really understanding your question... but
stoic is stoic... based on the fuel being used
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#775161
08/17/10 10:40 PM
08/17/10 10:40 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
I finally got my Lm-1 back so sometime soon I'm going
to check mine out again.... I got it idling nice now
(on my 396ci)but I need to check the mid again
YAY!!!!
Yeah I got it idling nice now Doug... no issues there
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Crizila]
#775163
08/18/10 11:44 AM
08/18/10 11:44 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
Quote:
Quote:
If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!
It is better than gasoline in terms of specific energy ( Ethanol = 3.00 SE and Gasoline = 2.92 SE ) since it's low heating value is more than offset by the low stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. In addition, max power is obtained at a much richer ratio so that under these conditions the SE is considerably higher than gasoline, where max power is obtained only at about 20% richer than stoic.
To put this another way - as an example: To make max power with gas, you gotta go 20% richer than the gas Stoic #. To make max power with ethanol, you gotta go 25% richer than its stoic #. More fuel, more power. It appears ( based on the guys on this sight that are using it ), it's good for maybe a tenth in ET. That's significant when your running 9's / 10's.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Crizila]
#775164
08/18/10 12:29 PM
08/18/10 12:29 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,442
LOWELL IN
QWK_ENUF
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,442
LOWELL IN
|
to put it in laymans terms if you need 108-110 race gas in your race engine than you will SAVE MONEY switching to E85 if you can drive with unleaded pump gas than forget the E85 EXTRA E85 PERKS saves money runs cooler posible performance increase NEGATIVES initial conversion cost so far i have 4 cars i have converted to E85 the no brainer way and all run as good or better than race gas current cost is 2.09 gal for us and 3 of us are running 9 sec ET's i luv it
WAXER
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: joshking440]
#775166
08/18/10 04:12 PM
08/18/10 04:12 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
|
I just switched my Mom's Duster over to e85 and will be taking it to the track to try it out today. It ran on pump gas 93 but was pushing the limits with it in the heat. We'll see what it runs.
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ
#4 in the World IHRA Stock
2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ
14x Track Champ
All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: Crizila]
#775168
08/18/10 06:00 PM
08/18/10 06:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!
It is better than gasoline in terms of specific energy ( Ethanol = 3.00 SE and Gasoline = 2.92 SE ) since it's low heating value is more than offset by the low stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. In addition, max power is obtained at a much richer ratio so that under these conditions the SE is considerably higher than gasoline, where max power is obtained only at about 20% richer than stoic.
To put this another way - as an example: To make max power with gas, you gotta go 20% richer than the gas Stoic #. To make max power with ethanol, you gotta go 25% richer than its stoic #. More fuel, more power. It appears ( based on the guys on this sight that are using it ), it's good for maybe a tenth in ET. That's significant when your running 9's / 10's.
 toomuch math for me...ahhhhhhheeee
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: CRT]
#775170
08/18/10 09:16 PM
08/18/10 09:16 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
|
Quote:
E 85 is the hot ticket.
What size gas carb were you running and what size E85 carb did you borrow?
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: QWK_ENUF]
#775173
08/19/10 01:23 PM
08/19/10 01:23 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 257
madison, ohio
modified1090
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 257
madison, ohio
|
Quote:
EXTRA E85 PERKS
saves money
runs cooler
posible performance increase
NEGATIVES
initial conversion cost
thats not really a negative if you think about it. the couple three hundred bucks or what ever you spend you will save in the first month of racing compared to the price of race gas.
some people might not even need a month depending on how much racing you do
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: modified1090]
#775174
08/19/10 01:51 PM
08/19/10 01:51 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
|
We only have about $160 in the conversion so far. Pretty cheap for a .10 second increase. I am thinking about putting all the cars on it now.
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ
#4 in the World IHRA Stock
2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ
14x Track Champ
All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
|
|
|
Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue
[Re: 440Jim]
#775175
08/20/10 01:06 AM
08/20/10 01:06 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,771
Cedar Lake IN
CRT
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,771
Cedar Lake IN
|
Quote:
Quote:
E 85 is the hot ticket.
What size gas carb were you running and what size E85 carb did you borrow?
Jim, I was running a older 2 circuit 1150 dom, and Tommy let me use his E85 carb that is a 1050 HP 3 circuit. Why do ya ask ?
|
|
|
|
|
...with your tranny 
Now if you are from Oklahoma,--- 
Of coures, you can always buy it at the track if you run low 
