I tryed E 85 on old blue

Posted By: CRT

I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:23 PM

This weekand, Tommy let me use his E 85 carb and I went to US41 to try it out. I like how it runs cooler, I like the 10th I pick up. I am going to make the switch before Norwalk.
The car ran

10.13 @ 130 1.35-60ft
10.14 @ 131 1.36-60ft
10.14 @ 131 1.37-60ft

then I had an issue with the carb going WOT, I was bending the throttle bracket. I am going to fix that and try to get the car to run 10.05 to 10.10

E 85 is the hot ticket.

Posted By: poisondart2

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:34 PM

Hell Yeah

How much cooler was it ? This is where I am going E-85 Faster- Cooler and friggin cheap

Posted By: CRT

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:38 PM

about 10*-15* cool, But its the time it takes to get to 190*, I can sit in stageing lanes with the motor running and not worry about getting too hot before a pass. ya the cheap part is cool.
E85 was $2.05 in town

Posted By: poisondart2

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:41 PM

Quote:

about 10*-15* cool, But its the time it takes to get to 190*, I can sit in stageing lanes with the motor running and not worry about getting too hot before a pass. ya the cheap part is cool.
E85 was $2.05 in town

Great to hear and it's $2.39 here but better than 13 dollars a gallon I pay now. I cant wait to use it.

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:55 PM

E85 is a great race fuel. Its economical, cooler and more consistent. I love the stuff. The carbs I have done are all running well and winning.

Posted By: Kiddart

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:57 PM

what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 06:59 PM

I want to convert my high compression wedge over to E85. Seeing these kind of results makes me want to do it sooner rather than later.

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 07:04 PM

Quote:

what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform

On a normal 4150 conversion you are looking at 350-400.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 07:40 PM

Yeah dont ya just love it

Posted By: CRT

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 07:59 PM

The only thing I dont like, is it runs fat when on the intermediate circuit when driving back on the return road, I wish I can go with a two circuit E85 carb, all E85 kits for Doms are three circuit.

Posted By: 340RICK

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 08:36 PM

I switched this spring I have not picked up anything yet. But I dont think I have the carb jetted right yet. But it does run cooler forsure.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 08:57 PM

Quote:

The only thing I dont like, is it runs fat when on the intermediate circuit when driving back on the return road, I wish I can go with a two circuit E85 carb, all E85 kits for Doms are three circuit.

I finally got my Lm-1 back so sometime soon I'm going
to check mine out again.... I got it idling nice now
(on my 396ci)but I need to check the mid again

Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 09:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform

On a normal 4150 conversion you are looking at 350-400.

Who does it for that price?

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 09:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform

On a normal 4150 conversion you are looking at 350-400.

Who does it for that price?

Send ajcasini a pm. He knows what he is doing and is great to deal with. I will be having a little talk with him in the near future.

Posted By: MOPARCHAS

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/16/10 11:42 PM

just picked my carb up from Jim Evans Performance in Rolla Mo. (300.00)to change to E85
going E85 racing at Monster Mopar Weekend
1050 Dominator
looking forward to it

Attached picture 6143132-2009.jpg

Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 12:12 AM

most excellent John!!

when I get rich again Im going to run E85 in my engine but hopefully transplanted in a 40 Willys w/ Hilborns...Im going GASSER...on the street

...with your tranny

Posted By: joshking440

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 12:21 AM

C&S Specialties did a carb for us. It was around $250.00 on a 2 circuit dominator. It was off maybe 3 jet sizes when we got it back.... Roger is the man

Posted By: modified1090

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 02:17 AM

i love it too
i hope this isn't considered a highjack but what are you guys watching in the weather do make dialin decisions, temp, humidity, water grains, what?

i run pretty consistent a round 2 or 3 hundreths from day to night

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 02:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

what is the price for you to do my carb. its a 950 proform

On a normal 4150 conversion you are looking at 350-400.

Who does it for that price?

Send ajcasini a pm. He knows what he is doing and is great to deal with. I will be having a little talk with him in the near future.

John is right I do the carbs for that price. There are several others out there that do them as well around that price.

There are also some DIY kits out there that will work for the 4150 and Doms. The 4150 is a little trickier as to make the carb work best on E85 a booster change is normally needed.

If anyone has questions pm me or email at ajcasiniracing@hotmail.com

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 02:26 AM

Quote:

i love it too
i hope this isn't considered a highjack but what are you guys watching in the weather do make dialin decisions, temp, humidity, water grains, what?

i run pretty consistent a round 2 or 3 hundreths from day to night

John I do not watch the weather normally when I am running normal brackets at PRP. However I do notice that the humidity seems to affect my ET the most. If the humidity goes up the car slows down.

Posted By: QWK_ENUF

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 04:34 AM

pretty

Posted By: all spooled up

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 07:04 PM

good deal john

tommy how you doing

Posted By: CRT

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 07:48 PM

Tommy is doing better, he has a case of "CRS" and he talked to quick fuel, thay said to go up 10 on the intermediate circuit air bleads and that will clear up the intermediate stumble. Going to try that tonight.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/17/10 08:59 PM

Saw E-85 at a staion near work today $2.52 a Gallon! I guess it's too late for me to swap my 440-6 over..lol

Posted By: Crizila

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 12:39 AM

Quote:

Saw E-85 at a staion near work today $2.52 a Gallon! I guess it's too late for me to swap my 440-6 over..lol

Of course you can't compare gallon to gallon as you have to use significantly more E85 than gasoline. The gain in heat energy is approximately 10% for straight ethanol. Just remember all that heat doesn't go to making HP. Approximately 45% goes out the tail pipe, 30% goes out the cooling system, and 25% makes useable power. 25% of 10% is only 2.5% - so if everything is right, you might gain 2.5% in power - and that's with straight ethanol. Obviously with E85 it will be something less than 2.5%. Since race gas and ethanol have about the same octane rating, if you consider detonation as the limiting factor for making power, it's a wash. The big bennie would come in latent heat of evaporation, aka., heat of vaporization or cooling. With the cooler charge you could possibly run a higher CR and stay out of detonation. Remember, the benefit in HP to running a higher CR really flattens out after about 12:1. After that the engine stresses start to go way up ( look how diesel engines are built ) while power gains rapidly deminish. Add this to the costs involved in modifying your fuel system to handle the addition fuel, toxicity/ afinity for water with ethanol, possible valve recession and lubrication issues, and - well, I aint sold yet. I realize that it will be difficult to put a $ number to all these factors, and some will occur over time, but to some extent, they will occur. JMHO, and I applaude those that are trying it ( even if they gotta deal with green boosters and jet blocks

). I'll keep pumpin Ethal for a while.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 01:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Saw E-85 at a staion near work today $2.52 a Gallon! I guess it's too late for me to swap my 440-6 over..lol

Of course you can't compare gallon to gallon as you have to use significantly more E85 than gasoline. The gain in heat energy is approximately 10% for straight ethanol. Just remember all that heat doesn't go to making HP. Approximately 45% goes out the tail pipe, 30% goes out the cooling system, and 25% makes useable power. 25% of 10% is only 2.5% - so if everything is right, you might gain 2.5% in power - and that's with straight ethanol. Obviously with E85 it will be something less than 2.5%. Since race gas and ethanol have about the same octane rating, if you consider detonation as the limiting factor for making power, it's a wash. The big bennie would come in latent heat of evaporation, aka., heat of vaporization or cooling. With the cooler charge you could possibly run a higher CR and stay out of detonation. Remember, the benefit in HP to running a higher CR really flattens out after about 12:1. After that the engine stresses start to go way up ( look how diesel engines are built ) while power gains rapidly deminish. Add this to the costs involved in modifying your fuel system to handle the addition fuel, toxicity/ afinity for water with ethanol, possible valve recession and lubrication issues, and - well, I aint sold yet. I realize that it will be difficult to put a $ number to all these factors, and some will occur over time, but to some extent, they will occur. JMHO, and I applaude those that are trying it ( even if they gotta deal with green boosters and jet blocks ). I'll keep pumpin Ethal for a while.

It takes 30% more E-85 to make the same BTU as gas

Posted By: plasticfantastic

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 01:55 AM

Quote:

I finally got my Lm-1 back so sometime soon I'm going
to check mine out again.... I got it idling nice now
(on my 396ci)but I need to check the mid again

YAY!!!!

Posted By: Leigh

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 01:56 AM

If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 02:38 AM

Quote:

If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!

I'm not really understanding your question... but
stoic is stoic... based on the fuel being used

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 02:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I finally got my Lm-1 back so sometime soon I'm going
to check mine out again.... I got it idling nice now
(on my 396ci)but I need to check the mid again

YAY!!!!

Yeah I got it idling nice now Doug... no issues there

Posted By: Crizila

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 02:58 AM

Quote:

If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!

It is better than gasoline in terms of specific energy ( Ethanol = 3.00 SE and Gasoline = 2.92 SE ) since it's low heating value is more than offset by the low stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. In addition, max power is obtained at a much richer ratio so that under these conditions the SE is considerably higher than gasoline, where max power is obtained only at about 20% richer than stoic.

Posted By: Crizila

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 03:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!

It is better than gasoline in terms of specific energy ( Ethanol = 3.00 SE and Gasoline = 2.92 SE ) since it's low heating value is more than offset by the low stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. In addition, max power is obtained at a much richer ratio so that under these conditions the SE is considerably higher than gasoline, where max power is obtained only at about 20% richer than stoic.

To put this another way - as an example: To make max power with gas, you gotta go 20% richer than the gas Stoic #. To make max power with ethanol, you gotta go 25% richer than its stoic #. More fuel, more power. It appears ( based on the guys on this sight that are using it ), it's good for maybe a tenth in ET. That's significant when your running 9's / 10's.

Posted By: QWK_ENUF

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 04:29 PM

to put it in laymans terms

if you need 108-110 race gas in your race engine than you will SAVE MONEY switching to E85

if you can drive with unleaded pump gas than forget the E85

EXTRA E85 PERKS
saves money
runs cooler
posible performance increase

NEGATIVES
initial conversion cost

so far i have 4 cars i have converted to E85 the no brainer way and all run as good or better than race gas

current cost is 2.09 gal for us and 3 of us are running 9 sec ET's

i luv it

Posted By: joshking440

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 04:33 PM

I love it.... I was cruisin around town, the water temp got up to about 200 degrees, but the intake manifold was sweating and cold

Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 08:12 PM

I just switched my Mom's Duster over to e85 and will be taking it to the track to try it out today. It ran on pump gas 93 but was pushing the limits with it in the heat. We'll see what it runs.

Posted By: cudarex

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 08:15 PM

Wish we had it in our area. Closest is 4hrs. away.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 10:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If the fuel mixture ratio is stoic for the type of fuel being used, how is more or less of that type of fuel, being either used, or passed through the engine, a factor in percentage of efficiency? Are they (E85 and gasoline) not capable of less than 12.5-1? I don't get the negative. If one is seeing 9 or 10-1, well yes. But 12-1? I don't get it. Help!

It is better than gasoline in terms of specific energy ( Ethanol = 3.00 SE and Gasoline = 2.92 SE ) since it's low heating value is more than offset by the low stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. In addition, max power is obtained at a much richer ratio so that under these conditions the SE is considerably higher than gasoline, where max power is obtained only at about 20% richer than stoic.

To put this another way - as an example: To make max power with gas, you gotta go 20% richer than the gas Stoic #. To make max power with ethanol, you gotta go 25% richer than its stoic #. More fuel, more power. It appears ( based on the guys on this sight that are using it ), it's good for maybe a tenth in ET. That's significant when your running 9's / 10's.

toomuch math for me...ahhhhhhheeee

Posted By: Crizila

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/18/10 11:23 PM

Quote:

Wish we had it in our area. Closest is 4hrs. away.

No real Texan would run E85

Now if you are from Oklahoma,---

Of coures, you can always buy it at the track if you run low

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/19/10 01:16 AM

Quote:

E 85 is the hot ticket.

What size gas carb were you running and what size E85 carb did you borrow?

Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/19/10 01:03 PM

We tried it last night and it picked Mom's Duster up a solid .10 in the 1/8th. We figured with the nasty air we had last night that the car would run 7.40-7.42. First pass was a 7.32 backed up by a 7.31. 60' and 330' times are where most of the gain came from. This was just a Quickfuel conversion kit and bigger needle and seats. I jetted it up a few steps and it slowed a little to a 7.33, so I went down past where I started and it went a 7.30. The best pass ever on this pump gas 362" in a 7.23 in good air. So far I like the stuff.

Posted By: cudarex

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/19/10 04:13 PM

That's amazing! Congrats.

Posted By: modified1090

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/19/10 05:23 PM

Quote:

EXTRA E85 PERKS
saves money
runs cooler
posible performance increase

NEGATIVES
initial conversion cost

thats not really a negative if you think about it. the couple three hundred bucks or what ever you spend you will save in the first month of racing compared to the price of race gas.
some people might not even need a month depending on how much racing you do

Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/19/10 05:51 PM

We only have about $160 in the conversion so far. Pretty cheap for a .10 second increase. I am thinking about putting all the cars on it now.

Posted By: CRT

Re: I tryed E 85 on old blue - 08/20/10 05:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

E 85 is the hot ticket.

What size gas carb were you running and what size E85 carb did you borrow?

Jim, I was running a older 2 circuit 1150 dom, and Tommy let me use his E85 carb that is a 1050 HP 3 circuit. Why do ya ask ?