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cam swap for 440, which one?
#768634
08/08/10 05:47 PM
08/08/10 05:47 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 238
MS, USA
killercoronet
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 238
MS, USA
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So i got my 440 dynoed, its a fairley stock build, 915's port and polished, stock bore, holley intake, headers, dui ignition, 750 holley, 3:55's sure grip, 2500 stall. Engine put out 387hp 420ft lbs torque. The cam is my question. I used a Comp 280H Magnum. I'm wondering if ii should have went with a Extreme energy with a little more lift. I really wanted to break 400hp at least. Any suggestions?
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: killercoronet]
#768635
08/08/10 05:50 PM
08/08/10 05:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,052
Madera, CA.
MowP4rsn
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,052
Madera, CA.
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It looks to me like your engine already makes 400hp or more if you factor in parasitic drag of the rest of the powertrain 
Last edited by MowP4rsn; 08/08/10 05:52 PM.
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: MowP4rsn]
#768638
08/08/10 06:23 PM
08/08/10 06:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 352
Arizona
69rrgrabber
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 352
Arizona
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Since the factory HP 440 was 375 horses, it seems like the bigger cam, ported heads, headers and intake would be worth more than jut 12 hp extra.
What compression are you running?
"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar!"
1969 Charger R/T 440
1969 Road Runner 383
1970 Cuda 440
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: 69rrgrabber]
#768639
08/08/10 08:05 PM
08/08/10 08:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,020
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,020
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Since the factory HP 440 was 375 horses, it seems like the bigger cam, ported heads, headers and intake would be worth more than jut 12 hp extra.
What compression are you running?
Good question , what pistons are you using , what head gasket , how far in the hole is the piston ?
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: killercoronet]
#768642
08/08/10 09:55 PM
08/08/10 09:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
So i got my 440 dynoed, its a fairley stock build, 915's port and polished, stock bore, holley intake, headers, dui ignition, 750 holley, 3:55's sure grip, 2500 stall. Engine put out 387hp 420ft lbs torque. The cam is my question. I used a Comp 280H Magnum. I'm wondering if ii should have went with a Extreme energy with a little more lift. I really wanted to break 400hp at least. Any suggestions?
I'm always curious on the desire to achieve a hp number on a dyno. If the dyno operator twisted a knob on the dyno and it spit out a 401 peak hp, would you be happy? Would you rather have a 13.20 et time slip and a 401 hp dyno sheet over a 12.50 et time slip and a 387 dyno sheet? Dynos and flow benches are tools. They don't tell you if your car is fast, or faster than anyone else, or fast enough.
Sure, you can put a faster rate lobe camshaft in your engine and pick up some average power, maybe peak too. But instead, consider going to the track and tuning, adjusting and making changes that make the car faster. If you do this, you'll probably end up with the fastest, 387 hp car at the track (within reasonable weight limits), and will likely be faster than some guys that have a 400 hp dyno sheet. I see this happen frequently. Finally, if you do this, then you can change your cam with a meaningful goal like wanting to put .2 and 2 mph in the car. 
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: derekeh]
#768645
08/08/10 10:40 PM
08/08/10 10:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Still.. the numbers are disappointing. For a mild built 440 to not even make 400 horses is sad.
We know nothing about the build, so I know that I cannot judge. If the compression is low, and has a 280 cam, I'm surprised that it made 387 hp. The last time I had a set of iron heads rebuilt correctly, ported for a low lift cam and put on a bench it was $1,500. That was 15 years ago. My guess is the OP's heads might not be that good, as most will simply buy Stealths or RPMs and be ahead of the game. And I'm always a little skeptical on a rebuild on a standard bore. 387 hp might be where it should be.
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: killercoronet]
#768647
08/08/10 11:37 PM
08/08/10 11:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
I know my compression is low, its a 78 block w/ flattop pistons, all factory. I kick myself for not zero decking the block , or changing rods and pistons, but this is my first engine build and i'm on a tight budget so s did what i could. I didn't skim on parts, i just didn't realize the importance of quench.
That is okay. Go have fun with the car instead of throwing more money at it.
Out of curiosity, what exactly was done to the heads and how much did it cost?
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: BSB67]
#768648
08/08/10 11:43 PM
08/08/10 11:43 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 238
MS, USA
killercoronet
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 238
MS, USA
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when i bought the new yorker that had the motor in it, someone had put them on the motor before. I had them checked milled, did a valve job, hardened seats, and comp springs, I did the porting myself. All in all i got about $500 in them. My buddy owns a machine shop, he does great work, so i trust the heads. Im thinking its my deck height that's killing me.
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: killercoronet]
#768649
08/08/10 11:54 PM
08/08/10 11:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,841
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,841
MI, usa
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Quote:
when i bought the new yorker that had the motor in it, someone had put them on the motor before. I had them checked milled, did a valve job, hardened seats, and comp springs, I did the porting myself. All in all i got about $500 in them. My buddy owns a machine shop, he does great work, so i trust the heads. Im thinking its my deck height that's killing me.
Lack of quench is not what's killing it. What is the actual comp ratio? How great can the ring seal be at standard bore? 906 heads are the easiest to botch while porting. Grinding in the wrong spot kills flow. This is your 1st build learn from it and go forward. I agree go test and see how it runs. This same package with top notch ring seal,valve work, and decent compression ratio would show different results.
Doug
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Re: cam swap for 440, which one?
[Re: killercoronet]
#768651
08/09/10 01:03 AM
08/09/10 01:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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If you're running a 1978 440 with stock pistons, your compression is low. VERY low. Like a calculated 7.8:1 low. I know, I've been there. It's not the deck height of your block that's the problem, it's the compression height of those stock pistons is soooooo low. An aftermarket piston will be taller, thereby increasing your compression ratio. With the super short mid 70's 440 pistons, no amount of milling the block or heads will get you where you want to be. You'd spend a lot of $$ doing that and then the intake and pushrods wouldn't fit right after. My advice is put your money into a high-stall torq converter. Trust me on this one, you do not want to run a stock converter with a low compression 440 with a cam, bottom end power will be so-so and you'll have a larger drop from idle in neutral to going into gear.
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383man
[Re: BSB67]
#768652
08/09/10 04:16 AM
08/09/10 04:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
Quote:
So i got my 440 dynoed, its a fairley stock build, 915's port and polished, stock bore, holley intake, headers, dui ignition, 750 holley, 3:55's sure grip, 2500 stall. Engine put out 387hp 420ft lbs torque. The cam is my question. I used a Comp 280H Magnum. I'm wondering if ii should have went with a Extreme energy with a little more lift. I really wanted to break 400hp at least. Any suggestions?
I'm always curious on the desire to achieve a hp number on a dyno. If the dyno operator twisted a knob on the dyno and it spit out a 401 peak hp, would you be happy? Would you rather have a 13.20 et time slip and a 401 hp dyno sheet over a 12.50 et time slip and a 387 dyno sheet? Dynos and flow benches are tools. They don't tell you if your car is fast, or faster than anyone else, or fast enough.
Sure, you can put a faster rate lobe camshaft in your engine and pick up some average power, maybe peak too. But instead, consider going to the track and tuning, adjusting and making changes that make the car faster. If you do this, you'll probably end up with the fastest, 387 hp car at the track (within reasonable weight limits), and will likely be faster than some guys that have a 400 hp dyno sheet. I see this happen frequently. Finally, if you do this, then you can change your cam with a meaningful goal like wanting to put .2 and 2 mph in the car.
I do agree with that. Just today I was asked why I have never put my car on a dyno ? I know what my car runs and I dont care if it does it with 500 flywheel hp or 450 hp. Plus I grew up in the 60's and 70's when there was no dyno's around that the local racers had use to. We just did the old race track dyno..........if you make a change and it goes faster leave it on.  I would do as suggested and put it together and drive it so you can see how it runs in the car. Good luck , Ron
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Re: 383man
[Re: 383man]
#768653
08/09/10 03:13 PM
08/09/10 03:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 992
Simi Valley, CA
MoparJ
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 992
Simi Valley, CA
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Considering that it is a 78' block, it very well could still have the low compression pistons. Compression could be down in the range of 7.8:1 or a tad higher. If so, 387 hp is actually a fairly decent number. With the right gearing and torque converter, you should stil easily be able to achieve 13 second quarter mile times, maybe quicker depending on the car. Id use a stall somewhere in the range of 2500-3000 and a gear of now higher (low numerical) of 3.23. Id be very happy with this motor in a street cruiser, with some trips to the track.
There may be a few horses left in the motor with a slightly different cam, like a XE268 or XE274. More importantly, you may be able to get the low end torque number up with a slightly, without affecting horsepower much.
I say run it. You still have a healthy motor and will light the tires up with ease, especially with the right TC and gear.
2016 Ram 1500 Crew Cab: 5.7, 65RFE, 4.56 gears with locker, Hemifever tuned, AFE intake, 87mm throttle body, JBA headers, 3" Flowmaster exhaust, split to dual 2.5" exits. 13.57 best ET so far.
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