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Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: BobR] #702794
05/20/10 10:23 AM
05/20/10 10:23 AM
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Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I was under the impression that the Rotella(which is a very good oil)had lowered zinc content for emissions!???




I can still get the original formula.



I think a lot of people would like to know where?


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: BobR] #702795
05/20/10 10:42 AM
05/20/10 10:42 AM
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GA
Boosted Offline
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Mobile 1 5w30 here and never a problem....


2011 RAM3500

1967 Fastback Barracuda with some go fast goodies.
Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: Boosted] #702796
05/20/10 10:56 AM
05/20/10 10:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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I have been using Rotella or Delvac (whatever is on sale) for the past 8 years.

i thought they only reduced sulfer out of the diesel oils


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: Boosted] #702797
05/20/10 11:00 AM
05/20/10 11:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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dennismopar73 Offline
top fuel
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Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: GomangoCuda] #702798
05/20/10 12:15 PM
05/20/10 12:15 PM
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Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I was under the impression that the Rotella(which is a very good oil)had lowered zinc content for emissions!???




I can still get the original formula.



I think a lot of people would like to know where?




Dion and Sons in Long Beach California. You have to buy it in 55 gallon drums, though. It may not be long for the world, however, as big truck emission controls becomes more and more intensive.

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: sixpackgut] #702799
05/20/10 12:16 PM
05/20/10 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Quote:

I have been using Rotella or Delvac (whatever is on sale) for the past 8 years.

i thought they only reduced sulfer out of the diesel oils




The sulfur was mostly reduced from diesel fuel.

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: Leon441] #702800
05/20/10 12:30 PM
05/20/10 12:30 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 65
GTXtacy, IL
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MarPar Offline
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Quote:

NAPA sells Valvoline NFS (Not for Street Use) Racing oil. It is the best I have found. Reasonable too.




Best Stuff out there!! 20w50!!


68 GTX 440cid 727 3.91SG 08 E-92 In God we trust...all others must pay cash
Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: 69dart] #702801
05/20/10 01:06 PM
05/20/10 01:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 71
Akron, Ohio
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triplenickel Offline
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Quote:

I pick it up at Advance and use these $10 off $25 coupons.




The coupon says "Good Only At Grand Opening Stores on site".

Have you had luck redeeming the coupon at existing stores? There aren't any new Advance Auto Parts in my area.

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: triplenickel] #702802
05/20/10 01:53 PM
05/20/10 01:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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joshking440 Offline
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Brad Penn all the way!

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: joshking440] #702803
05/20/10 02:05 PM
05/20/10 02:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
BeEtLeJuIcE ! Offline
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Hey guys...

WHAT is the code on the oil container that indicates a HIGH zinc content ?

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !] #702804
05/20/10 02:15 PM
05/20/10 02:15 PM
Joined: May 2010
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GTXtacy, IL
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MarPar Offline
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I believe that the not-street legal phrase is because it is not certified by API for street use under the new SM ratings.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor_oil_classifications.htm

either way, the Valvoline not-street legal oil has 1600ppm zinc in it if memory serves...i'll check again though


68 GTX 440cid 727 3.91SG 08 E-92 In God we trust...all others must pay cash
Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: cudadoug] #702805
05/20/10 02:29 PM
05/20/10 02:29 PM
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Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Sixpak Offline
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You can always add some Blue STP to your conventional oil to increase the zinc, or for even more, if you can find it, the Red container STP for even more zinc.

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: MarPar] #702806
05/20/10 02:47 PM
05/20/10 02:47 PM
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communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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vr1 nfs

standard vr1

both the vr1s listed are 1400ppm

conventional automotive oil is around 800ppm
rotella t is 1200ppm

it all depends on the API rating

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s (fig. 5).

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group
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Post deleted by Defbob [Re: cudadoug] #702807
05/20/10 04:03 PM
05/20/10 04:03 PM

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Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: jamesc] #702808
05/20/10 04:07 PM
05/20/10 04:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
S.E. Michigan
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-Sequence IIIg uses a GM 231 V6 from 1997
-Sequence IVA uses a Nissan OHC 4 cylinder from 1994

So, with no regard to gross valve lift, spring pressure, weight of the valvetrain parts, etc....we should blindly accept that if it works in a 231 V6 it should also work in a 426 Hemi with over .600 lift and 350lbs of spring pressure?

I'm not trying to be a smart azz, but I'm thinking "no"

I've worked with many engineers in my day, and here's the approach an OEM guy would take:
-protect for vehicles 7.5 years old and newer.
-Test both kinds: pushrod and OHC
-Done
There would be no concern or discussion re: modified engines, archaic designs like Gen II Hemis or Mark IV Chevrolets, etc. There is no reason for them to protect for anything older than required by federal law. "Older" means 7 years old.


Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: ZIPPY] #702809
05/20/10 04:35 PM
05/20/10 04:35 PM
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communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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no i am not inferring that nor do i claim to be any authority. the tech paper i posted was merely intended to give some insight as to the history of ZDDP. people are free to make their own decisions and run whatever oil they chose. how many times have people come here and said they had an engine failure directly related to the quality of the oil they are using? i'm not going to spend the time to check all the different ratings and post them i just wanted to point out certain things. yes some of the oils are imho unacceptably low in zddp but for the most part these aren't oils most of us here would use anyhow. most of the heavy duty lubricants are 1200ppm or above and should suffice. people rave about brad penn oil and their site pushes the "green" oil when in fact the "green" is nothing but dye that you don't want in the oil to begin with this i know for a fact. i'm no expert but spending 12 hours a shift standing there running a filling machine cranking out a zillion quarts a shift of scores of different products taught me a few things. the most important was that marketing plays a MAJOR role in lubricant sales. as long as people perceive an oil to be better they're willing to pay through the nose for it. marketing can spin a thousand different stories but the fact of the matter is that to be certified for a given rating a oil must have certain qualities. opinions vary this is mine based on what i saw working at a lubes service center. the same oil that was going in high dollar quarts was going in store brand quarts....fact

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: jamesc] #702810
05/20/10 04:58 PM
05/20/10 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Thanks, just wanted to point out that the testing SM was subjected to applies to some older engines, but not all.

The green dye story is a classic by now

I'm still using up several cases of green GT1 I've had for years...Didn't buy it because it was supposed to be anything super special, it's just a "known good" product and I got it on closeout for next to nothing.
It's so old, you may have even bottled it

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: ZIPPY] #702811
05/20/10 05:25 PM
05/20/10 05:25 PM
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Arizona
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Chris'sBarracuda Offline
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This is a good read..


http://www.torco-oil.com/about-torco.html

Chris..

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: jamesc] #702812
05/20/10 05:37 PM
05/20/10 05:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

the same oil that was going in high dollar quarts was going in store brand quarts....fact




I believe you, same with gasoline. You pay to have it branded or you can buy it unbranded and it comes from the same tank at the terminals.

Re: Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...?? [Re: Challenger 1] #702813
05/20/10 05:53 PM
05/20/10 05:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,044
At a gas station near you
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badblack68 Offline
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At a gas station near you
So far none of you have provided the correct answer. All you have to do is.....


THINK WITH YOUR DIPSTICK JIMMY!

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