Is Shell Rotella the oil of choice...??

Brad Penn all the way!

Hey guys...

WHAT is the code on the oil container that indicates a HIGH zinc content ?

I believe that the not-street legal phrase is because it is not certified by API for street use under the new SM ratings.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor_oil_classifications.htm

either way, the Valvoline not-street legal oil has 1600ppm zinc in it if memory serves...i'll check again though

You can always add some Blue STP to your conventional oil to increase the zinc, or for even more, if you can find it, the Red container STP for even more zinc.

vr1 nfs

standard vr1

both the vr1s listed are 1400ppm

conventional automotive oil is around 800ppm
rotella t is 1200ppm

it all depends on the API rating

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s (fig. 5).

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group
__________________

-Sequence IIIg uses a GM 231 V6 from 1997
-Sequence IVA uses a Nissan OHC 4 cylinder from 1994

So, with no regard to gross valve lift, spring pressure, weight of the valvetrain parts, etc....we should blindly accept that if it works in a 231 V6 it should also work in a 426 Hemi with over .600 lift and 350lbs of spring pressure?

I'm not trying to be a smart azz, but I'm thinking "no"

I've worked with many engineers in my day, and here's the approach an OEM guy would take:
-protect for vehicles 7.5 years old and newer.
-Test both kinds: pushrod and OHC
-Done
There would be no concern or discussion re: modified engines, archaic designs like Gen II Hemis or Mark IV Chevrolets, etc. There is no reason for them to protect for anything older than required by federal law. "Older" means 7 years old.

no i am not inferring that nor do i claim to be any authority. the tech paper i posted was merely intended to give some insight as to the history of ZDDP. people are free to make their own decisions and run whatever oil they chose. how many times have people come here and said they had an engine failure directly related to the quality of the oil they are using? i'm not going to spend the time to check all the different ratings and post them i just wanted to point out certain things. yes some of the oils are imho unacceptably low in zddp but for the most part these aren't oils most of us here would use anyhow. most of the heavy duty lubricants are 1200ppm or above and should suffice. people rave about brad penn oil and their site pushes the "green" oil when in fact the "green" is nothing but dye that you don't want in the oil to begin with this i know for a fact. i'm no expert but spending 12 hours a shift standing there running a filling machine cranking out a zillion quarts a shift of scores of different products taught me a few things. the most important was that marketing plays a MAJOR role in lubricant sales. as long as people perceive an oil to be better they're willing to pay through the nose for it. marketing can spin a thousand different stories but the fact of the matter is that to be certified for a given rating a oil must have certain qualities. opinions vary this is mine based on what i saw working at a lubes service center. the same oil that was going in high dollar quarts was going in store brand quarts....fact

Thanks, just wanted to point out that the testing SM was subjected to applies to some older engines, but not all.

The green dye story is a classic by now

I'm still using up several cases of green GT1 I've had for years...Didn't buy it because it was supposed to be anything super special, it's just a "known good" product and I got it on closeout for next to nothing.
It's so old, you may have even bottled it

This is a good read..


http://www.torco-oil.com/about-torco.html

Chris..

So far none of you have provided the correct answer. All you have to do is.....


THINK WITH YOUR DIPSTICK JIMMY!

...go to Joe Gibbs web site
they make some interesting points.
I have also called Shell Canada Tech. in Alberta and they stand by their latest Rotella Formulation and it's use for flat tappets at about 1200 ppm zinc

"there's a Dart with a 340 in it...they've got some muscle here tonight!"

I have ALWAYS taken out the inner springs on my flat tappet cams on break in! Plenty of pressure to rotate the lifters! RandyB.

Watching Christmas trees grow, and avoiding the purchase of a digital camera by all means.

My Dad was at a truck show and talked to one of the shell reps there. He said the new rotella only has about 800/900 ppm for better emissions control, and the old stuff has about 1200 (the old stuff is packaged with that little triangle on it...you'll know what i mean when you see it). I went to wal mart and bought a big 20L bucket of the old stuff since they still had it, but check with any truck supply place as they still probably have some as well...I also added a little bit of the lucas break in oil just to be safe

Schaeffer oil is a great oil that still has some of the old good stuff in it....
they have been around alot longer than 90% of any of the other oil companies...so that says a bunch in today's market.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/

There is a link in this thread to a very detailed explanation of the function of zinc & phosphorus in motor oils:

Zinc


Bill O. has posted results from a lab analysis of Brad Penn oil he had done:

oil analysis