70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
#69424
06/07/08 09:45 PM
06/07/08 09:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 546 Stuart FL
mercman1
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 546
Stuart FL
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I have real T/A that I restored with a 416 W-2 roller motor. With the 6 pack and exhaust manifolds on pump gas this made 470 horses and 490 ftlbs of torque. I purchaed @ the Nats from the well known owner of a conversion company a complete kit. Trans, clutch, had them modify my scattershield and also the hydraulic throw out brg set up. just shy of $4k. The salesman/owner of this company assured me that this was a complete bolt in... I expressed my concern that I would not even dimple the floor pans much less cut them or modify in any way as one day I will put back the complete 100% matching engine and trans. I had several problems from the wrong clutch they sent me, to a throw out brg that expoded at 300 miles of use and hurt the trans so bad I had to ship the trans back at my cost for repairs and pay the difference for the "new updated" throw out bearing. Well I now have 1000 miles on this junk and the trans interferes with the trans tunnel transfering a severe vibration to the body as you row through the gears. I have repeatedly complained to them about how poor this thing shifts... finally tech support (which as been great) got one of the engineers on the phone and he ask "where are you shifting"? I said 7-7500 RPM. His answer... GET THIS... They are not designed to shift over 6000 RPM, as a matter of fact the new Mustangs have the rev limiterset @ 5900 RPM. They suggested I send the trans to Pro Motion a company that specializes in modified Tremecs on my $ of course. I'm done with the agravation!!!The original 833 is on it's way in as we speak. The company nor all the magazines that have tested these things said nothing about these issues. This car has been a 6 year resto-mod. I drive my cars and I race them. The 5 speed made great sense for the best of both worlds. I'm so disappointed and out $4K Just thought others would like to know.
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: mercman1]
#69426
06/08/08 12:06 AM
06/08/08 12:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Not to start a "war"......there are more than several companies out there selling Tremec swaps, who was your "vendor" of choice?.........and shifting at 7-7500 rpm was your intention, you should have made that clear to the "supplier"?.....usally when I order or request a part/assy I usally spell out EXACTLY what I need and expect the part to do,.....that way I don't have any disapointments 440/6 Keisler 5spd, dana 60 4:10
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: jsbrown]
#69428
06/08/08 01:59 AM
06/08/08 01:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi
NTOLERANCE
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,384
Madison Wi
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Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels") Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000? I know some people swear by these transmissions and the other half that have them hate them,(or hate the fitment rather) but I dont beleive that these transmissions are designed for anything but street cruising...... If 6000 rpm was the LIMIT, wouldnt they post that in their advertising? ( yeah there is a bit of sarcasm there) Interesting though, I was thinking about putting a summit hyd clutch set up in my car, but after hearing your problems, I dunno if hyd is the way to go...... I feel for ya man, youve got more in your trans that Ive got in my car. Big chunk of change to loose.
I used to care but....... things have changed
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you
[Re: mercman1]
#69429
06/08/08 02:44 AM
06/08/08 02:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,800 East Bay, N. Cal.
calmopar
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,800
East Bay, N. Cal.
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With all the "upgrades" (design/component flaw fixes) and shipping back and forth, I'm up to $6,300+
The trans is getting fitted, the floor modified, then the trans will get installed. Unlike the OP, I don't mind hacking the floor of my ex-318 car. I understand why he wouldn't want to cut his. For me, though, driveline angle is more important than preserving a floor (which I replaced anyway).
It's been a long, expensive ride, and I'll know soon if it's going to do the trick or not.
The car itself is going to look great. The motor is a top-shelf M.E.W. rebuild of an original block.
I am hoping for the best!
Trying to enjoy life!
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: NTOLERANCE]
#69430
06/08/08 08:50 AM
06/08/08 08:50 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,392 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,392
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")
Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.
Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.
I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: mercman1]
#69431
06/08/08 10:01 AM
06/08/08 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,045 MD
RTSE4ME
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,045
MD
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I have a 70 Challenger with the same kit that is kind of a resto mod like yours...but not as nice as yours. Here are a couple suggestions that may or may not help. Since your car was an originally a 4 speed car why don't you try the mechanical linkage. I thought the hydraulic set up was for people who were converting to auto and didn't want to deal with installing the linkage. Another thing you could try is get rid of the pistol grip and use a ball handle. I bought a used 7" hurst handle with a ball handle for $20 and it makes shifting a lot more natural for me compared to the pistol grip but I don't shift any where near 7500 rpms. My trans also interferd with the tunnel...I think most e-bodies do on the right side. I just clearenced it a bit...
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: Dragula]
#69432
06/08/08 10:29 AM
06/08/08 10:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi
NTOLERANCE
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,384
Madison Wi
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Quote:
Quote:
Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")
Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.
Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.
I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.
Umm......I just thought of something...
Shouldnt a transmissions service level be rated in TORQUE capabilities and not HP?
I'll stick with my 23 spline 833. If I want an overdrive, I'll take the stratus.
I used to care but....... things have changed
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: NTOLERANCE]
#69433
06/08/08 10:42 AM
06/08/08 10:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")
Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.
Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.
I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.
Umm......I just thought of something...
Shouldnt a transmissions service level be rated in TORQUE capabilities and not HP?
I'll stick with my 23 spline 833. If I want an overdrive, I'll take the stratus.
I think they are. The Tremec is 600LB and the TKO is rated at 850LB of torque. I've installed a couple of both in E bodies. All hit the tunnel without mods. Both shift hard but seemed to loosen up with miles. They are nice for the street but I'd take an 833 for racing. They never said anything about RPM limitions. All of ours came from Keisler.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: RTSE4ME]
#69434
06/08/08 11:18 AM
06/08/08 11:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Well, we don't exactly know what set up Mercman has, Keisler, Classic 5, Darkhorse, etc,.....I'll speak from my experience with Keisler, after installing many of their several versions of TKO 5's, and AOD4, the only failure was one hyd. master cyl. and one input shaft, the input shaft failure was due to a rather inexperienced "employee" who had "forgotten" to install the front BEARING! when installing a Hyd clutch set up,.......other than that NO failures since 2002 on any Keisler equipped vehicle, mine or customers, and they've been put behind everything up to several 600HP Hemis, I have a TKO Keisler in my Daytona, I have no problems shifting at 6000 rpm, or down shifting so hard as to lock up the rear end,......but then again I take the time to procure/ install a unit that I know will handle the job, rather than op out at cost and settle for an inferior/ lower performing unit,....the TKO in my Daytona is a $6000 dollar set up right from the start, all the gears have been replaced with chromalloy 4130 steel gears, as well as ugrades to the bearings/ shafts/ etc the entire tranny was built to my request, knowing it would see extreme street/ racing conditions,.....last thing that I want, as well as the next guy is to spend coin, only to regret it later because I didn't research the product.....I know sometimes we rely on the "wisdom" of the supplier, but if you don't question/ research for yourself, sometimes your at their mercy,.......I've been there in the past, and vowed never to be "there" again......I feel for you Mercman, it sounds like, from your post, you "relied" on "their"(?) advice for a unit, or perhaps the $4K was your limit?.......are you running a TKO 500?....if so I'd limit that tranny to a "warm" smblk,....325-375 HP..........trust me, I beat the snot out of my cars, with the intent of breaking something!
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: mercman1]
#69439
06/08/08 02:24 PM
06/08/08 02:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,310 Walnut Creek, CA
blown340
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,310
Walnut Creek, CA
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Maybe its something with the hydraulic clutch? I'm using the mechanical clutch linkage with my Keisler/tremec setup in my 340 challenger and have had no issues while shifting at 6500. I'm also making quite a bit more power thanks to 15psi of boost and its holding up quite well. I do have a custom hydraulic setup on my scamp that I converted from a A904 to a A833OD and it doesn't like to shift nearly as fast as the mechanical linkage does. -Jon
70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah
71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS
00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process
73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: blown340]
#69441
06/08/08 02:52 PM
06/08/08 02:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 263 oregon
daytonakid
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 263
oregon
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I have a kiesler tremec setup in my superbird clone I purchased it in 2000. Within months I had the shiftrods fall apart. I had to remove top of trans. They had used drift pins that were to loose. Had to send trans back for warranty work. I bought complete kit including bell housing. Trans shifts like a big truck. Now I guess they have a updated shift tower but keisler has never sent me info so I could solve my problem. I have always had clutch problems. I installed their mccleod clutch first had very high peddle effort and the pressure plate finally failed. They then sold me a diaphram clutch and told remove me to remove the overcenter spring. I never did remove the over center spring because I know how hard they are to replace. I tried to tell them that is the wrong for a mopar but they assured me it would work. If you drive normal it's fine try to shift it under hard acceleration cluth pedal sticks to floor. I have so many other projects at work and at home I just gave up and I've just lived with this for years. But it doesn't work right. I remember when I started this project they tried to talk me into their hyd clutch. Come to find out the first ones were junk. Glad I didn't listen to them on that one. If they have poor engineering they should offer updates to us poor suckers stuck with their junk. I have a gear vendors in my duster that runs 10.30 has been there for 4 years not one problem. I only spent 2300 for it you tell me which is best. Bill
Last edited by daytonakid; 06/08/08 02:55 PM.
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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
[Re: mercman1]
#69443
06/08/08 07:45 PM
06/08/08 07:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works)
No, I don't know how that works?.......perhaps you could enlighten me? because if there's free parts, I wanna be first in line!
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