70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 03:18 PM

Well, we don't exactly know what set up Mercman has, Keisler, Classic 5, Darkhorse, etc,.....I'll speak from my experience with Keisler, after installing many of their several versions of TKO 5's, and AOD4, the only failure was one hyd. master cyl. and one input shaft, the input shaft failure was due to a rather inexperienced "employee" who had "forgotten" to install the front BEARING! when installing a Hyd clutch set up,.......other than that NO failures since 2002 on any Keisler equipped vehicle, mine or customers, and they've been put behind everything up to several 600HP Hemis, I have a TKO Keisler in my Daytona, I have no problems shifting at 6000 rpm, or down shifting so hard as to lock up the rear end,......but then again I take the time to procure/ install a unit that I know will handle the job, rather than op out at cost and settle for an inferior/ lower performing unit,....the TKO in my Daytona is a $6000 dollar set up right from the start, all the gears have been replaced with chromalloy 4130 steel gears, as well as ugrades to the bearings/ shafts/ etc the entire tranny was built to my request, knowing it would see extreme street/ racing conditions,.....last thing that I want, as well as the next guy is to spend coin, only to regret it later because I didn't research the product.....I know sometimes we rely on the "wisdom" of the supplier, but if you don't question/ research for yourself, sometimes your at their mercy,.......I've been there in the past, and vowed never to be "there" again......I feel for you Mercman, it sounds like, from your post, you "relied" on "their"(?) advice for a unit, or perhaps the $4K was your limit?.......are you running a TKO 500?....if so I'd limit that tranny to a "warm" smblk,....325-375 HP..........trust me, I beat the snot out of my cars, with the intent of breaking something!

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Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 03:27 PM

1500+ HP combined.....all running Keisler TKO 600's, all driven HARD on the street or Track

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Posted By: Dragula

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 03:35 PM

For the amount of money it seems everyone has invested in these things, a Lenco ST1200 would have been money in the bank. Let alone how much an 833 would have saved you.

Posted By: wildman340

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/08/08 04:02 PM

Some good info about the Tremec:
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/tremec.htm

Posted By: mercman1

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 04:58 PM

Let me clear up a few issues first...
I read every magazine test or post on the Tremec conversion/ installation for about two years BEFORE buying my set up. Usually the articles were about B-bodies. These I understand have no fitment problems. I was well aware that A bodies require trans tunnel mods. E-bodies were supposed to be like B bodies. I heard some rumors that some E- bodies "Could" have fit ment issues.
This unit is from Keisler... I sat down with the owner (Shafri???) to discuss the aplication. I brought up fitment reservations...He assured me it would fit with no mods. He at first recommended the entry level 450 ft lbs rated trans. I explained that the engine had already been dynoed with a 6 pack and manifolds at 490 ft lbs of torque and that some day Id throw on the Victor W2/ HP 950- carb intake and headers (worth probably another 50-60 hp???) He then recomended the next unit rated at 550 ft lbs. I already had a complete Centerforce dual friction clutch set up but he said his was better, so not wanting to piece parts and have them later point the finger to a clutch that was not theres I gave in and bought his clutch, shifter and had him modify my scatter sheild. The original intention was for my wife to drive this on occasion as I also have a low 11 second street 69 GTX so I ordered up the hydraulic throw out brg set up which now works excellent!
Now some have questioned the shifting vs RPM... this is a MUSCLE CAR!!!Yes it is fine on the street at 3500 RPM but we drive these to hear the tires squeal and the engine whine. I have the horsepower for this to run low 12s maybe with sticky tires go 11:90s. This thing is so poor at shifting it only went 14.19 @105 mph at the Southern Mopar nats in GA two weeks ago. That is stock Mustang teritory not Mopar Muscle times.
Mr Dayclona...If I'm told the price of admission is $4K that is one thing...But if the real price is $6K let me know that up front and I will respect you so much more! At 6K I will look at other options...Jerico or what else is out there.
Bottom line some of these magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works) for doing an article on these trans and arn't about to say ANYTHING negative.
Shame on these so called journalist for taking gifts with out disclosing the truth!

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Posted By: blown340

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 06:24 PM

Maybe its something with the hydraulic clutch? I'm using the mechanical clutch linkage with my Keisler/tremec setup in my 340 challenger and have had no issues while shifting at 6500. I'm also making quite a bit more power thanks to 15psi of boost and its holding up quite well. I do have a custom hydraulic setup on my scamp that I converted from a A904 to a A833OD and it doesn't like to shift nearly as fast as the mechanical linkage does.

-Jon

Posted By: viperakron

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 06:32 PM

I have a Viper with a Tremic. They are strong but you can't power shift them, The trans was made for my car. I have some mods and make 475 at the wheels. Never broke anything in the trans but you can't do anything but speed shift it and expect to get in all the gears consistantly.

Posted By: daytonakid

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 06:52 PM

I have a kiesler tremec setup in my superbird clone I purchased it in 2000. Within months I had the shiftrods fall apart. I had to remove top of trans. They had used drift pins that were to loose. Had to send trans back for warranty work. I bought complete kit including bell housing. Trans shifts like a big truck. Now I guess they have a updated shift tower but keisler has never sent me info so I could solve my problem. I have always had clutch problems. I installed their mccleod clutch first had very high peddle effort and the pressure plate finally failed. They then sold me a diaphram clutch and told remove me to remove the overcenter spring. I never did remove the over center spring because I know how hard they are to replace. I tried to tell them that is the wrong for a mopar but they assured me it would work. If you drive normal it's fine try to shift it under hard acceleration cluth pedal sticks to floor. I have so many other projects at work and at home I just gave up and I've just lived with this for years. But it doesn't work right. I remember when I started this project they tried to talk me into their hyd clutch. Come to find out the first ones were junk. Glad I didn't listen to them on that one. If they have poor engineering they should offer updates to us poor suckers stuck with their junk. I have a gear vendors in my duster that runs 10.30 has been there for 4 years not one problem. I only spent 2300 for it you tell me which is best. Bill

Posted By: 70440+6bbl

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 10:34 PM

I gave up on their junk after having TWO hydraulic TO bearings blow and ruin my $500.00 Mcleod clutches in my '70 RR 493 A-833 powered car

The second time was on the starting line at Island Dragway, sucked big time!!! My buddy has not had much luck with the set-up in his '72 'Cuda 493 TKO set-up.
I have had decent luck with the TKO 600 trannies in most of the 5.0 Mustwangs I have built over the last couple of years. Not the easiest trans to powershift (unless sent to Pro-Motion in FL), although it is holding up just fine in my [Email]10.90@129[/Email] 5.0 single turbo car

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/08/08 11:45 PM

Quote:

magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works)

No, I don't know how that works?.......perhaps you could enlighten me?

because if there's free parts, I wanna be first in line!

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Posted By: wldtm

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 01:25 AM

i have a tremec in a 69 a body. I too am disappointed about the 6000 RPM limit, but not much I can do now. Maybe there is an alternative like switching to a different lubricant, but at worst I would say that it may need to be modified synchros for the higher rpm shifts. There is a difference between torque rating and RPM limit, and it seems if tremec (not keisler) would address the issues with synchros that could handle higher RPM's without aftermarket mods the trans would be worth it. The shifting at 6k is not keislers fault, that is on most stock tremecs. Sorry for the issues with your car, never like to see someone feel like they were lead astray.

Justin

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 02:46 AM

Its just a transmission that is run in many cars besides the mopars. If you cant shift it at high rpm's that suggests to me you have either a clutch or alignment issue. I would think the latter. The bellhousings need to be dialed is as well as crank end play checked. Flywheel runouts also need to be checked. Its not rocket science. To many people just toss them in and think everything will be ok. You need tools and you need to measure everything. Not everyone has the tools or knowledge to install these correctly.

Posted By: daytonakid

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 02:55 AM

I checked all of that when installing my setup. Bill

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 03:16 AM

Pete,......you hit the nail on the head!,.....I wasn't gonna step in that "minefield",......but you "opened" the door,.......9 1/2 out of 10 times it's "IE".....installation error, something wasn't checked, or double checked, or a presumed decision was made without confirming it,...or the lack of equipment to properly install, or adjust,.....this applies to not just Keislers/Tremacs,....any componet installed,.....like I've said, after quite a few Keisler installs, I've only had two faliures, a bad hyd. master cylinder, right out of the box, Keisler supplied, but not made/ nor modified by them,.....and a input shaft sheared off a TKO 600, that was due to an "inexperienced employee" that thought he knew "everything"......and FORGOT to install the front BEARING

.....he was fired!

I've beaten the sh1t out of every Keisler set up,......and have yet had to experience any breakage?.....I usally find that when something fails , it's the result of an improper application, or improper installation?

Posted By: wldtm

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 03:16 AM

"TREMEC is built with solid bronze synchros with no linings. It is for these reasons that the TREMEC does not like to shift well above ~6,500rpms unless modified. There is a way to improve the shifting but is only used for drag racing when down shifting is not needed."

Found at http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/tremec.htm
and per tremec tech representative

Posted By: daytonakid

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 03:28 AM

So I'm an idiot who can't follow instructions. Why do we see kiesler engineering design changes if they are so perfect. I guess instead of being one of their first guinea pigs I should have waited. Its amazing my gear vendors handles way more horsepower under much higher stress loads and doesn't miss a beat. I still like my kiesler setup but I feel abandoned because I ended up with the first poorly engineered pieces. Bill

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 03:31 AM

I have the TKO 5 from Keisler installed in my '71 Satellite behind a 383. After I first put it in I noticed the angle of the powertrain was out of wack- the rear of the engine was too low. After installing an air grabber hood, it became painfully clear how far out my set up was. My kit was a very early E body kit that I fit into a B body. Keisler wasn't sure it would fit, but I told them it would fit with a longer driveline. In the end, I sent the trans. back once and had a updated shift mechanism installed and the rear of the tailshaft housing machined down for more clearance. Once I installed it, it still would not go high enough in the tunnel. So I modified the trans tunnel. They also sent me a modified transmission crossmember. I had to build a 1" aluminum spacer for the crossmember to get it right. Last, but not least, I cut the spring pearches off my axle tubes, phased both u-joints on the driveline and welded the new spring pearches in place, this made a huge difference. The car is now smooth up to 100 mph. The transmission shifts fine at 6500 rpm. I'm using the centerforce clutch and my bellhousing is centered to .002" I did have problems with Keislers pilot bearing that has a brass sleeve on it to adapt it to fit the big block crank. I found the sleeve had come loose and was not holding the pilot in place. I found a Ford pilot bearing with the same I.D. and a larger O.D. and machined it down to fit the crank. It took a couple of years to get all the bugs out of this tranny install, but now it works great.

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 04:01 AM

Wow, if it is this hard to install 5-speed kits behind Mopar engines I wonder how it will be to install a T-56 ?!!

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 01:48 PM

Quote:

Wow, if it is this hard to install 5-speed kits behind Mopar engines I wonder how it will be to install a T-56 ?!!

Well when it done right the first time, there's no problems.......be it a Tranny swap, supercharger install or changing points.......some people can "fubar" spreading peanut butter

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 02:31 PM

Quote:

Pete,......you hit the nail on the head!,.....I wasn't gonna step in that "minefield",......but you "opened" the door,.......9 1/2 out of 10 times it's "IE".....installation error, something wasn't checked, or double checked, or a presumed decision was made without confirming it,...or the lack of equipment to properly install, or adjust,.....this applies to not just Keislers/Tremacs,....any componet installed,.....like I've said, after quite a few Keisler installs, I've only had two faliures, a bad hyd. master cylinder, right out of the box, Keisler supplied, but not made/ nor modified by them,.....and a input shaft sheared off a TKO 600, that was due to an "inexperienced employee" that thought he knew "everything"......and FORGOT to install the front BEARING .....he was fired! I've beaten the sh1t out of every Keisler set up,......and have yet had to experience any breakage?.....I usally find that when something fails , it's the result of an improper application, or improper installation?

Mine field.

Lots of them around.

I know several chevvy guys running them up to 9 grand and banging gears without a problem. You guys with the problems must be holding your lips in the wrong position.

when wrenching or rowing gears

Posted By: CJK440

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 03:23 PM

A couple of things.

The TKO 500 and TKO 600 are rated at 500 ft/lbs and 600 ft/lbs respectively. Rating them in horsepower seems to be a marketing ploy.

Also, unless somebody can enlighten me, not one car ever had a TKO series transmission ever installed from the factory. Tremec does make OE trannies like the T-5 and T-56 but the TKO trannies are purely aftermarket transmissions.

I installed a TKO 600 behind a 440 cuda and ran 11's. It shifted wonderfully. Reliable as heck. However, I did my own hackjob using the tried and true Mopar clutch linkage and used Tremecs in-line short shifter and cut a hole instead of an outrigger design which I can't imagine helps gear changes. Obviously since the OP wanted just a bolt in setup he couldn't have done the same as me.

Posted By: Hrtbkr

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 05:45 PM

Quote:

Also, unless somebody can enlighten me, not one car ever had a TKO series transmission ever installed from the factory. Tremec does make OE trannies like the T-5 and T-56 but the TKO trannies are purely aftermarket transmissions.

The TKO was installed in mid to late nineties Ford Cobra Mustangs.

Posted By: CJK440

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 06:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Also, unless somebody can enlighten me, not one car ever had a TKO series transmission ever installed from the factory. Tremec does make OE trannies like the T-5 and T-56 but the TKO trannies are purely aftermarket transmissions.

The TKO was installed in mid to late nineties Ford Cobra Mustangs.

My 1997 Cobra had a Tremec T-45 with the integral bellhousing. I know for sure, I rebuilt it.

The 96-99 Cobras all had the T-45 then after that, Ford went with the Tremec 3650.

Here, I found this.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/TKO.asp

Tremec says the TKO is aftermarket only.....but they also go on to say the T-45 is aftermarket only but also say it came in 96-99 cobras

perhaps the T-45 is aftermarket only at this point in time??

Posted By: 471Magnum

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 10:30 PM

I believe the Tremec TKO was offered in the 1995 Cobra R only... very limited production.

4.6L Mustangs of that generation used the T45, which are junk, although quality and engineering improved immensely once Tremec took over from B-W.

The current Mustang GT Tremec is a close cousin to the TKO, sharing the same architecture.

Posted By: Grassosgarage

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/09/08 11:06 PM

Quote:

Pete,......you hit the nail on the head!,.....I wasn't gonna step in that "minefield",......but you "opened" the door,.......9 1/2 out of 10 times it's "IE".....installation error, something wasn't checked, or double checked, or a presumed decision was made without confirming it,...or the lack of equipment to properly install, or adjust,.....this applies to not just Keislers/Tremacs,....any componet installed,.....like I've said, after quite a few Keisler installs, I've only had two faliures, a bad hyd. master cylinder, right out of the box, Keisler supplied, but not made/ nor modified by them,.....and a input shaft sheared off a TKO 600, that was due to an "inexperienced employee" that thought he knew "everything"......and FORGOT to install the front BEARING .....he was fired! I've beaten the sh1t out of every Keisler set up,......and have yet had to experience any breakage?.....I usally find that when something fails , it's the result of an improper application, or improper installation?

Dude, I hear alot of talk about you driving these cars "hard", but what are the dragstrip numbers? Driving on a road course in the rain is not powershifting at 7K rpm 3 times in 11 seconds. The bottom line is that these guys are advertising a "bolt-in" product. I have been power-shifting and drag racing Mopars since I was 16. I assembled the 833 in my original 69 RT 4sp Dana car on my back in my parents driveway with a broomstick wrapped with masking tape for a clutch alignment tool. This was in the 80s with a worn out Hays clutch, worn out pedals and linkage, and the original Hurst shifter. The only thing I did was use Mr. Gasket steel bushings on the shift rods. The car launched so hard it eventually ripped the door stirker out of the jamb, and I would powershift it routinely at 6K rpm (every time I left the driveway as a 16 year-old should) and I had NO shimming the K-member, NO re-working the driveline angle, No precision adjustments, NO sending the trans out for a bunch of trick parts, etc, etc.
The point is these are musclecars, and the manufacturers are advertising the product as "bolt-in" and "no mods". It's nice if you can get a wing car to run a road course and get 7 more miles to the gallon on the highway, but these cars were built to drag race, and if you can't shift 'em at 6K grand upon bolting it in the car without modifying the driveline, and a dozen other adjustments not required on a factory install, then the manufacturer didn't come through as promised.

Posted By: mercman1

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 01:03 AM

Guy's this is not my first rodeo...I am pretty handy and what I don't know I will consult or let the experts in the field do for me. Some of you are saying that it is out of alignment here is a picture taken in the proces. I eventually got it within .003. My 68 Cuda 440 4spd eventually went 11 teens.... no special parts in that 833. Next???

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Posted By: wildman340

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 01:11 AM

Hmmmm, I thought the T/A's were built for road courses. I have installed a few 4 speeds too, but they were all Mopar parts, not a combination of aftermarket stuff, so everything was fool proof. You can't even install a blowproof bellhousing without making adjustments. BTW, the OP is shifting at 7-7500 rpm, which is above the 6-6500 rpm level suggested by the manufacturer. With that rpm and the power he is making, you need to be 100% sure everything is aligned correctly.

Posted By: mercman1

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 01:25 AM

I have all intentions of taking this on a road course (15 miutes from Moroso and 1.5 hrs from Sebring) hence the QA1 adjustables on all 4 corners and the Goodyear Formula 1 rain tires. I need to get it to shift at rpm first. Small block with W-2s and a roller cam need rpm to make horsepower.

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Posted By: Ronnman

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 01:51 AM

I've got to go with mecman1 on this one. I just read through the latest Mopar Muscle Mag and there is the classic Keisler ad and I quote "Get the total package with Keisler---1) "Lowers engine RPM", 2) "Easy Installation", 3)"Extended engine life, 4) "More gears, uncompromised performance", 5) "All necessary components", and 6) "Highest quality parts". I guess 3 or 4 out of 6 isn't bad----------------- if you are a batter. I for one will never purchase anything from Keisler. Too much bad feedback here on Moparts. I've read Keiler's replys to posts and they seems to care. But, for the money people are laying down, don't sugar coat the product to cover the downside. Just my 2 cents.
Ron

PS: Why is every picture I see of XV Motorsport's ads, show the cars driving in the rain?

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 02:16 AM

Quote:

I've got to go with mecman1 on this one. I just read through the latest Mopar Muscle Mag and there is the classic Keisler ad and I quote "Get the total package with Keisler---1) "Lowers engine RPM", 2) "Easy Installation", 3)"Extended engine life, 4) "More gears, uncompromised performance", 5) "All necessary components", and 6) "Highest quality parts". I guess 3 or 4 out of 6 isn't bad----------------- if you are a batter. I for one will never purchase anything from Keisler. Too much bad feedback here on Moparts. I've read Keiler's replys to posts and they seems to care. But, for the money people are laying down, don't sugar coat the product to cover the downside. Just my 2 cents.

The Keisler people hit on all 6 for me.

A lot of the negative crap gets slung by people that never owned one or ever will have one. Lots of hapl ford and gm guys running them as well as most mopar guys. You just dont see the happy ones crying.

Posted By: Ronnman

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 02:51 AM

I'm not referring to Ford or GM, the original post here is about an e-body, Mopar. While I have seen the happy people post, far and few between, I have seen way too many giving bad feedback. And, I'm talking folks who posted pics with some of there problems, so I think they own one. I just think for the +$4K you should expect to get what is advertised. Do you ever here anyone complaining about Gearvendor's product as frequent as Kiesler's product? I haven't. The Keisler proponents here always blame this or that, the guys a shadetree mechanic or whatever. But mercman1 seems to be on top of his part of the problem.
Ron

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:00 AM

Quote:

I've got to go with mecman1 on this one. I just read through the latest Mopar Muscle Mag and there is the classic Keisler ad and I quote "Get the total package with Keisler---1) "Lowers engine RPM", 2) "Easy Installation", 3)"Extended engine life, 4) "More gears, uncompromised performance", 5) "All necessary components", and 6) "Highest quality parts". I guess 3 or 4 out of 6 isn't bad----------------- if you are a batter. I for one will never purchase anything from Keisler. Too much bad feedback here on Moparts. I've read Keiler's replys to posts and they seems to care. But, for the money people are laying down, don't sugar coat the product to cover the downside. Just my 2 cents.
Ron

PS: Why is every picture I see of XV Motorsport's ads, show the cars driving in the rain?

Ron, as far as XV's wet ads.....thats from their first eastcoast "track day"......I like using their photo of my car.....end of story, plus it hard for me to take pics and drive at the same time

And as far as your quote of the Keisler ad,.......I get 6 out of 6,.....I make dam sure of it!

I'm not "candy coating" any downside,....and.I'm not denying Mercman or others may have a problem?......where Mercmans problem lies, who knows, we can only speculate?......however .003 thou.......I'll take the time for .001-.001 1/2, I've found that the flywheel/ clutch, and bell need to be within min. tolerances, machining tolerances are VERY tight on the Keisler/TKO,.......plus Mercman, how many miles are on your tranny?......the Keisler/TKO is horrid the first few 100-250 miles for shifting/engagement, forget reverse!.....after 500-750 miles it's more fluid, .......more time/ break in, may be required.......I know the first Keisler/TKO, I put in shifted so bad, I felt like pulling it out and grinding it down to dust!......but after giving it some break in time,......Dam! it was awesome!......and I've been hooked on Keisler/TKO's since,........I could sit here and tell you all the "woes" that I've had with Gear Vendors and how they couldn't give me a free unit!.......I wish Keisler would give me a free tranny....Shafi?

.....seriously if I had a problem with Keisler or any vendor, I'd be "ranting" also....Keisler sells me the same tranny that everyone else gets, I get the same service........but after QUITE a few trannies from them, I've yet to get a lemon?.....not saying it can't happen,.....hell I think their only human too, prone to mistakes?......Mercman as far as the trany hitting the floor, I agree, the TKO is tall upfront vs the 833, the floor needs to be massaged or gring some excess webs/ tabs off the case?.....it's what "hotrodding" is about, make it fit.......any salesman will tell you, bolt-on, snap-on, drop-in, etc,......hell even the "snap-to-gether" model kits we had as kids had issuses!......Mercman if your adamant about pulling your Keisler, do so......sell it and move on.....it's not for you?......on the other hand, before throwing in the "towel", go over your install, or reinstall, hell, you won't be the only one!.....if your tranny needs more breakin time,....work it man,.....serious, they need to be broken in, like a virgin on prom nite!

Ron, here's a "dry" track day at Atlanta Motor Speedway in Georgia

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Posted By: Ronnman

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:15 AM

I was just kidding about the cars in the rain pics, every ad that I see the cars are in the rain.

You obviously have had experience with the Keisler installs. But it is interesting that there are some installs that need to be broke in. Is this the experience that the "Happy Folks" have had with the Tremec 5 speed? Just trying to get a concensus here.
Ron

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:17 AM

Quote:

Do you ever here anyone complaining about Gearvendor's product as frequent as Kiesler's product?

I see complaints. The gear vendors is not without issues. Like I said lots of people jump on the bashing wagon but how many walk the walk.

Posted By: Ronnman

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:22 AM

Well right now mercman1 is walking the walk and he's $4k in the hole for walking it. It is good to here ALL's opinion here,including the good experieinces. That way, folks can make a judgement call as to if they want to walk that path.
Ron

Posted By: lokalik

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:27 AM

i installed the 5spd in my 70 b body. had to modify the tranny tunnel, that was unexpected. the shifter handle shakes back and forth sometimes, in 3rd and 4th. also you cannot slam 2nd to 3rd. this has to be a slow shift. i can go 2nd to 5th fast but not 2nd to 3rd. richard has offered to repair this at no cost. all i have to do is remove it and return it. however, this is driving season (we have bad winters) so this winter i will pull it down and return it. richard has been the best to deal with at keisler.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:33 AM

Quote:

I'm not referring to Ford or GM, the original post here is about an e-body, Mopar. While I have seen the happy people post, far and few between, I have seen way too many giving bad feedback. And, I'm talking folks who posted pics with some of there problems, so I think they own one. I just think for the +$4K you should expect to get what is advertised. Do you ever here anyone complaining about Gearvendor's product as frequent as Kiesler's product? I haven't. The Keisler proponents here always blame this or that, the guys a shadetree mechanic or whatever. But mercman1 seems to be on top of his part of the problem.
Ron

Ron,.....most people when "disparaged", will rant on anything!......very few people pay a compliment to a vendor,......ask me I know firsthand!......they feel, I paid for it, bye!....that's ok!...hey that's business, I'll admit that I know Shafi and his crew very well, although that dosen't intitle me to perks!

........if you knew the volume of Keisler/TKO's that are sold, vs the "complaints", it would probally amount to 1% of their sales,....seriously( if you only knew!) they move a tremendous amount of "product" to GM, Ford, Mopar, and Jag owners, hell of a product, and business.....they are enthuisast, motorheads like the rest of us,.....not "snake oil" salesman like some like to portray them as!.....

Ron,....heres another "dry" trackday, powershifting at @ 6000 or so RPM.....I usally get thrown off tracks because I drive like a madman!....seriously.....in fact, I remember this day, I was told to "behave"

Attached picture 4479149-lead.jpg

Posted By: wildman340

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 03:36 AM

The Mustang guys on the net say to change to better shifters, like the Pro 5.0, to get better shifting, esp: the 2-3 shift.

Posted By: lokalik

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 03:46 AM

i wonder if the pro 5.0 is the upgrade richard was talking about?

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:51 AM

Quote:

i installed the 5spd in my 70 b body. had to modify the tranny tunnel, that was unexpected. the shifter handle shakes back and forth sometimes, in 3rd and 4th. also you cannot slam 2nd to 3rd. this has to be a slow shift. i can go 2nd to 5th fast but not 2nd to 3rd. richard has offered to repair this at no cost. all i have to do is remove it and return it. however, this is driving season (we have bad winters) so this winter i will pull it down and return it. richard has been the best to deal with at keisler.

Jim, you probally have a first "gen" shift tower, they leave a lot to be desired, the 3 rd gen shift tower you can do in the car, 2 allen screws, install the tower "straight" in, with the shifter nub, in neutral, as well as the tranny, make sure the machined flat, for the shifter goes towards the drivers side, you can accidentally install it 180 degrees, it will offset your shifter about 1 inch, watch out.......as far as the 2-3 shift, it's the nature of the "beast", with the 833, you could ram the shifter into gear, try doing that with the TKO's 2-3 shift, you get locked out, you got to learn to resist jammimg into gear,.....my Daytona was the "mule" for the prototype 68-70 B body install as well as Keislers 70 console pistol grip shifter, I told Shafi the floor needs to be cut, but he insisted oterwise, in fact I prefere to cut the floor in any application A<B<E regardless of fit, and you can toss that pc of sheetmetal they supply, and put a real "factory" 4 spd hump in it!.....Jim are you using the "console" or bench seat Pistol grip?.......and Jim the 3rd Gen shift tower is like nite and day, it will greatly improve your trannies shifting

Posted By: ns1aar

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:52 AM

I tried to put one in my AAR.I was told I might have to cut the floor.I did that as that could be returned to stock.But when I got it in the driveline angle was wrong,clutch linkage didn't align properly and my engine sat low in the back.The only way to remedie this was to shim the k frame lower or cut the cross member in the tunnel.I was not willing to do any of these.I gave them measurments from the trans mount to the top of the tunnel to help out with the problem but as far as I know there has never been a fix.I quit asking.I did not have the only AAR to have these issues.I would assume that T/A's might have the same problems.I did offer up the car to check fitment,they have a dealer close to me,but they woudn't take me up on it.Search ns1aar and something might come up from a couple of years back.There is a member here that had these problems and did some serious hollering and got a refund.I do need to give Keisler some credit though they did take back the kit and refunded me everything except shipping.Using the Passons OD now.Bolts right in every thing aligns and all is well

Posted By: mercman1

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 03:59 AM

When the original throw out brg exploded @ 300 miles I had already pulled the tranny in and out 6 or 8 times due to them sending me the wrong clutch assy. Then issues with the clutch master cyl(up grade #1 = more$$$$). that resolved then exploded throw out brg (upgrade #2 = more $$$$)Trans breaks an input shaft and car must be trailered home. Trans shipped to Kiesler on my dime = more $$$$ The trans was also jumping out of 4th gear, and so several failures all by 300 miles. I did not ever throw Keisler under the bus...I dealt with them and they with me in a very professional manner. Yes things like this happened and Richard at tech support was excellent, even to the point of working with me on Saturdays and Sundays. God bless him!I now have 1100 or so miles on it and not sure how much longer the turd needs to be rubed on. This is a forum where we share information and we appreciate every one who post. Thats how we get our cars to be better. I just felt I needed to post for others who may have a valuable car or just do not feel happy doing irreversable mods to a car on how this product has not worked for my application. Several have asked if the system is for sale and it is. PM me. Thanks to all that posted one way or the other.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 04:09 AM

Well depending on when you bought your kit, the early installs left a lot to be desired, the driveline angle was horrible, linkage alignment wasn't any better,.......but the last few years, the "crew" at Keisler's engineering has grown, better designs/ products have been developed to "correct" the past "errors" or "development issuses",....esp in machining more excess off the case, better shifter locations, and shifters, as well as complete tranny crossmember mounts, to address the anglement issuses,......back in the day, you had to cobble your exsisting tranny crossmember until nothing was left to it.....the last few B/E installs were trully "bolt-in", the only correction was a driveline phasing, acomplished with rear axle perch shims from about 1-3 degress increase, available from Mopar Performance, just like you'd use if running SS springs, and needed to dial in the 3rd member

Posted By: lokalik

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 04:10 AM

i had to cut a big hole in my floor. i'm using the bench seat pistolgrip, the car already had a factory 4spd hump. perhaps i can talk richard out of a shift tower

. i learned after a couple of missed shifts not to jam 2nd to 3rd. thanks for the info. nite all

Posted By: mercman1

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 04:16 AM

For those that think shifter location is an option...it is not unless you want to do MAJOR surgery. On an E-body the shifter does not enter the top of the trans and move the rail directly... it mounts to a bracket bolted to the rear of the trans.A clevis type device (red arrow) moves the rail (green arrow)I also had a lot of shifter shake which Kiesler repaired for me while the trans was in for repairs.

Attached picture 4479256-ebodyshifter.JPG

Attached picture 4479256-ebodyshifter.JPG

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 04:18 AM

Well best of luck to you Mercman, nice T/A......hope your next install is your final install, and all works well for you

appreciated your input.......

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 04:40 AM

welcome to the world off the aftermarket. with that said..
definitly sounds like a misalignment problem somewhere.
no doubt you got the skills to pay the bills, but you are
missing something in this case.

Posted By: MadMatt

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 05:26 AM

I've read this whole thread with great interest, because I have been contemplating the swap from 727 to TKO600 for quite a while. I'm just wondering if all the problems cited are related to units from Keisler. Has anyone used a kit from Classic Mopar 5-speed? Is there any difference in their units? Do they have the same sort of problems?

Posted By: dart_sportsatellite

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 01:24 PM

Quote:

I have all intentions of taking this on a road course (15 miutes from Moroso and 1.5 hrs from Sebring) hence the QA1 adjustables on all 4 corners and the Goodyear Formula 1 rain tires. I need to get it to shift at rpm first. Small block with W-2s and a roller cam need rpm to make horsepower.

A whole lot of non factory parts for a "restored" car...

Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 02:02 PM

Nothing but "wear items" than can be R&R'd pretty easily if/when the time comes. Unlike sectioned or hammered floorpans.

Clair

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/10/08 02:20 PM

Quote:

I was just kidding about the cars in the rain pics, every ad that I see the cars are in the rain.

You obviously have had experience with the Keisler installs. But it is interesting that there are some installs that need to be broke in. Is this the experience that the "Happy Folks" have had with the Tremec 5 speed? Just trying to get a concensus here.

Ron,....I just "razzin" you about the "dry" track photos ..........as far as break in time on the Keislers/TKO's,.....everyone I've installed needed time to "loosen" up, I've had some that from shipping got dropped on the mainshaft and locked the tranny up!( usally when the box shows up with the mainshaft sticking out! it's gonna be a "fun" day!).......I've had those "head banging" days too installing these things, usally it when a new design is being fitted, or trying to prototype some part for Keisler........you don't want to know what a "nightmare" the 71 B body bench shifter location was trying to nail down.......I wanted it purely mechanical,.....Keisler wanted to go remote, (electronic)......eventually "mechanical" won out...........but overall I've been impressed with Keisler, and their product,......IMAO, their unit (TKO5)far exceeds Gear Vendors(727/833OD) offerings in performance and reliability......all the GV users,.....wait until the day your "tooling" along at 100 MPH+ and your unit drops out(electronically) and the rear locks up!......hope you have the driving skills to handle the car..........
Ron

Posted By: Classof70Chally

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 05:10 PM

Quote:

I've read this whole thread with great interest, because I have been contemplating the swap from 727 to TKO600 for quite a while. I'm just wondering if all the problems cited are related to units from Keisler. Has anyone used a kit from Classic Mopar 5-speed? Is there any difference in their units? Do they have the same sort of problems?

My kit is from Classic 5. I also had to modify

my E Body tunnel where the upper rear pass side of the trans case is. I probably had to dimple the sheet metal about 1" in several spots just to get the trans high enough for the new cross member to go under it. When I was done the tail shaft was several inches lower that my rear pinion yoke. Part of this may be due to the fact that my body ride height is several inches lower than stock. I had some driveline vibration and after some trial and error I eliminated all or most of it by shimming my pinion angle about 3-4 degrees down. At first it shifted smooth as a babys behind but after several full power speed shifts it became a bit sticky especially when sitting still and going into reverse or first. I adjusted the clutch linkage several times and this seemed to help. However I suspect that on one of my "Ronnie Sox" wannabe shifts

the bellhousing became slightly misaligned and is causing the problem. Overall I am happy with the swap although by the time I bought a new bellhousing, pistol grip and clutch and flywheel I was at or just over $4K

. I was able to sell my old set up which helped take some of the sting out of the price. I did my swap on a friends lift which is the only way to go if you can. It took more than "one weekend" however. Even with someone helping it was more like 3-4 days before it was on the road.

Posted By: MadMatt

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/10/08 06:31 PM

Quote:

My kit is from Classic 5. I also had to modify my E Body tunnel where the upper rear pass side of the trans case is. I probably had to dimple the sheet metal about 1" in several spots just to get the trans high enough for the new cross member to go under it. When I was done the tail shaft was several inches lower that my rear pinion yoke. Part of this may be due to the fact that my body ride height is several inches lower than stock. I had some driveline vibration and after some trial and error I eliminated all or most of it by shimming my pinion angle about 3-4 degrees down.

I've been considering doing the swap on my '70 Dart with a SB. I recently had the opportunity at the Spring Fling to chat at length with Scott Lindquist and one of the tech guys (I forget his name)from Classic 5 speed about a new kit they are developing for the A-bodies. They are taking a really different approach. They have just accepted the fact that it is impossible to install a TKO in an A-body without a lot of cutting so they have decided to go all the way. The kit will require you to cut out the upper center section of the T-bar x-member and a surrounding area of floor. The kit will include a new, permanently mounted, upper x-member to tie into the ends of the T-bar x-member and a new section of floor. It will also, of course, have a new bolt in lower trans x-member. By going this route they will be able to use unmodified TKO transmissions, avoiding the complicated redesign and machining that they and Keisler have employed in previous applications. They also claim that by avoiding the machine work on the trannies and using a stock TKO 500 or 600 they can knock about $700 off the price of the kits! I've been staying in touch with them by e-mail and they say they should have the first kits for sale around the end of the month. I'm very interested, but after reading this thread I will have some very pointed questions for them about hydraulic T/O bearings, etc. before I buy. Probably won't be much of an issue though, as my motor only makes about 350 ft/lbs of torque and rarely sees over 6000 rpm.

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/11/08 02:29 AM

I'm glad I'm reading this now because I was considering upgrading my 4sp 71 RR to a 5 speed, but I need to shift up to at least 6500.

I'm no transmission expert. If the aftermarket trans needs a million alignment modifications, then forget it.

What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

Jim

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/11/08 02:37 AM

Quote:

A lot of the negative crap gets slung by people that never owned one or ever will have one. Lots of hapl ford and gm guys running them as well as most mopar guys. You just dont see the happy ones crying.

It's easy to deal with happy customers. The way a vendor handles a dissatisfied customer speaks volumes. I don't think mercman's issues were handled well at all.

Jim

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/11/08 04:15 AM

Quote:

What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

Transzilla
http://www.rsgear.com/transzilla.asp

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/11/08 04:50 AM

Quote:

I'm glad I'm reading this now because I was considering upgrading my 4sp 71 RR to a 5 speed, but I need to shift up to at least 6500.

I'm no transmission expert. If the aftermarket trans needs a million alignment modifications, then forget it.

What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

Jim

If you really need the o/d, you could bolt a gear vendors to your 4sp.

Posted By: 71Chip

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/11/08 06:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

Transzilla
http://www.rsgear.com/transzilla.asp

Isnt that thing $8,800 with a core charge just for the transmission? (no bellhousing, etc)

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/11/08 12:56 PM

last time I called them it was that price outright, no core charge necesarry

Posted By: Slipknot440

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/11/08 03:56 PM

I miss the 7000+ rpm shifts. I haven't shifted my hemi above 4500 yet but I had 372 stroker (340) in my old 73 cuda and was able to take it up over 8500 if I wanted. I had 727 and had no tranny probs in the 2 years I owned so I didn't feel the need for the manual swap...If it ain't broke don't fix it

Posted By: wildman340

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/11/08 05:18 PM

Summit sells a Richmond 5 spd for Mopars but I don't think you are going to find a 5 spd "drop in" setup.

Posted By: tx9cuda

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/16/08 01:11 PM

What they don't tell you? Come on - every e-body guy that spends any time on this site knows that you will likely have to clearance the right front of the tunnel to fit the trans correctly - Keisler even supplies the metal,template and instructions to do it. I met Mercman at the Southern Nationals (beautiful car I must add)and he knows that the driveline angle is way out of whack because he refuses to cut the floor. There is no way that this car can shift correctly if the angles are as bad as he describes. I wish he would go ahead and do the tunnel mod (I'm sure his body man could make it invisible from below) and give this trans a chance. With all the other mods,including frame connectors-why not install the trans correctly? I hate to see Keisler get trashed when the owner knows the install is not right. If it were right and the trans was terrible - yea let the trashing begin. I struck up a conversation with Mercman because I have also purchased a Keisler kit for my Cuda, which will be installed in the next month or so - I have already prepared myself to have to do the floor mod and yes Keisler told me up front. When I get my car completed and put a few miles on it - I'll truthfully post my opinion on the Keisler kit.
No disrespect to Mercman but the bottom line is - E-body guys- if you are not willing to cut the floor - don't buy this trans kit.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/16/08 02:03 PM

Quote:

No disrespect to Mercman but the bottom line is - E-body guys- if you are not willing to cut the floor - don't buy this trans kit.

None to you either, but you missed a few:

No Shifts above 6000rpm
No fast shifts from 2-3rd
No hydraulic clutch bearing that will hold-up
No warrenty for wrong/defective items
Not a bolt in
Not done in a "week end"
Not just $4000K and your done

I had considered running one, but I am glad I did my research on here, and that's what this site is about. Finding out from people who have one, and what it intales when considering one, and not just the sales pitch. I am glad I used this site as well as made some phone calls on my own to them. 9/10 times in advertising, its about making money, not about fully informing someone, and this site tells the rest. I always listen when the manufacturers talk, but don't make a claim that you can't back up, because we may call you on it. Tell it how it is. If its $4000 for an entire kit fine, but if your told its $4k for everything you need, and you end up shelling out $6k...That's a whole nother story. What upgrades might have to be considered, and what do they cost all should factor into it, and not left out till after its in the car.

When I talked with these folks and they stated that Matt Delaney runs one pretty hard behind a hemi, he never mention about a 6000rpm limit or a $2000 upgrade....What the heck do they think we shift these things at? None of that's in the sales pitch, nor was it mention in any conversations I had with them. I found it tough to believe that for $4k you could buy an OD trans that would take the beating of 600hp heavy street car, but that's what they would like you to believe. It sounds like that for $6k, you might get what you need, but I have not seen a full list of what that includes, but even then, does it hold up and why hide all the upgrades needed?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/16/08 02:04 PM

Quote:

I have a kiesler tremec setup in my superbird clone I purchased it in 2000. Within months I had the shiftrods fall apart. I had to remove top of trans. They had used drift pins that were to loose. Had to send trans back for warranty work. I bought complete kit including bell housing. Trans shifts like a big truck. Now I guess they have a updated shift tower but keisler has never sent me info so I could solve my problem. I have always had clutch problems. I installed their mccleod clutch first had very high peddle effort and the pressure plate finally failed. They then sold me a diaphram clutch and told remove me to remove the overcenter spring. I never did remove the over center spring because I know how hard they are to replace. I tried to tell them that is the wrong for a mopar but they assured me it would work. If you drive normal it's fine try to shift it under hard acceleration cluth pedal sticks to floor. I have so many other projects at work and at home I just gave up and I've just lived with this for years. But it doesn't work right. I remember when I started this project they tried to talk me into their hyd clutch. Come to find out the first ones were junk. Glad I didn't listen to them on that one. If they have poor engineering they should offer updates to us poor suckers stuck with their junk. I have a gear vendors in my duster that runs 10.30 has been there for 4 years not one problem. I only spent 2300 for it you tell me which is best. Bill

you have a diaphragm clutch you HAVE TO REMOVE the overcenter spring or the pedal is going to stick to the floor . make a way to hold the clutch pedal to the floor and insert washers in between a bunch of the coils , now release the clutch the spring should come off easily . now wrap it in something to keep the washers in place and put it away so if you want to put it back it should go back in fairly easily

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/16/08 02:06 PM

Quote:

For those that think shifter location is an option...it is not unless you want to do MAJOR surgery. On an E-body the shifter does not enter the top of the trans and move the rail directly... it mounts to a bracket bolted to the rear of the trans.A clevis type device (red arrow) moves the rail (green arrow)I also had a lot of shifter shake which Kiesler repaired for me while the trans was in for repairs.

so let me get this right , you didn't want to dimple the floor but you WELDED IN subframe connectors ???

Posted By: tx9cuda

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/16/08 02:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

None to you either, but you missed a few:

No Shifts above 6000rpm
No fast shifts from 2-3rd
No hydraulic clutch bearing that will hold-up
No warrenty for wrong/defective items
Not a bolt in
Not done in a "week end"
Not just $4000K and your done

My point was that if the trans was installed correctly some of the problems may have been eliminated and the E-body floor issue has been well documented. I personally would not be looking at a basic Keisler kit for drag racing applications either (I.E.-high RPM shifting). I will be running a basically stock 340 and 4.10 gears and want to be able to enjoy more driveability with the steep gears - I believe that to be what the kit is marketed for. It amazes me how some think for $3495 you are going to get the holy grail of racing transmissions. My personal opinion is if Mercman would dimple the floor and use his original mechanical linkage instead of the "wifey" hydraulic- chances are he would have been much happier.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/16/08 05:09 PM

Please allow to me to clear up some mis-information on this thread....
Mercman and I have been in contact with each other for the better part of 6 months now trying to get his car on the road. There were several items that needed to be addressed in his case. He had the older hydraulic setup that we could not get working, so I sent him (at no charge) a new bearing setup for the front of the transmission and then sold him a new master cylinder setup. I gave him my cell hone number and we talked alot after hours and on weekends to try and sort this out.

He is a top notch guy who did everything by the book except he did not want to clearance his tunnel. As has been pointed out on this thread, some e-body guys run into the need to clearance the passenger side of the tunnel, foward of the shifter. We even provide the sheet metal and template to do this. Because mercman has not done this, he may very well have driveline angle issues and yes, that could contribute to harder shifting. It does not have anything to do with the fact that he cannot shift at or above 7500 rpm where he is trying to do so. The TKO just doesn't like rpm's that high and nothing that Keisler or Classic Mopar does to them, rectifies this.
Mercmans runout is well within the tolerances, so that is not an issue.

As was pointed out earlier, the TKO is an aftermarket only transmission. It never came in a production vehicle. It did come in the '95 Cobra R which was not a street legal vehicle and it was only in there for that limited run in that production year.
The T45 is a factory transmission that came in the Mustangs from 1996-2000. The T45 is completely different from the TKO in that it is a single rail shift linkage setup where the TKO is a multi-rail design.

DRAGULA.....The TKO is rated by Tremec to handle 500hp/500ft/lbs for the TKO-500 and 600hp/600ft/lbs for the TKO-600. We do not give this rating, Tremec does. We have several hemi owners running the TKO with no issues at all. As someone else states, more often than not, it is the direct result of installer error. There are way to many people running this transmission with no issues at all for this to be a Tremec problem. Some have even chimed in on this thread stating the same thing. By the way...thanks for calling me an idiot.

The bottom line is Mercman is a standup guy, who I bent over backwards trying to help out and for whatever reason, it just isn't working the way he expected. I/we cannot do anything about trying to shift at or above 7500rpm so I referred him the Pro-motion to see about modifying it to handle that kind of rpm. He obviously doesn't want to go that route and he is not willing to cut the floor to correct the driveline angles. We obviously cannot do much more without those issues being addressed.
I certainly feel bad about his situation and wish he could get it worked out but it looks like he is going back the 4 speed. Good luck.

I feel like the "bashing" that is going on here is un-justified but so be it. There are alot of satisified customers and those of you that have been in contact with me, know that I do everything in my power to correct your issues. Being called an idiot is just unfair and un-called for.

We tell EVERYONE what to expect from this conversion and I know for a fact that the sales guys tell ALL E-body owners of the possibility of having to cut. I sit in the same room as them and hear it all day every day. Whether the customer wants to hear it or not, I can't say but I know it is told to them.

If anyone out there still needs my help, please call or PM me and I will do whatever it takes to make your experience a positive one.

Richard
Tech Support

Posted By: Burkenator

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/17/08 04:52 PM

Any pictures of how much you have to cut for a car (e-body) that already has the 4-speed hump? Or was the above trans tunnel pics of a 4sp to 5sp conversion?

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 06/17/08 06:09 PM

When are you guys gonna make a T-56 kit?
I'll cut my entire floor out of my E-body just to get 6 gears!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/18/08 05:42 AM

has anyone here had experience with the pro 5.0 shifter and will the Pistol grip bolt on to it ?

is it worth the 200$

thanks.

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/18/08 08:36 AM

my TKO did NOT come from Keisler.

mine has been ok so far. I've had some leaky hydro bearing issues that I was able to fix with copper crush washers on the fittings.

my shifts were HARD at first, but I didn't know if that was due to an incomplete clutch extension due to leaky fittings, or internal to the tranny.

i can say that finally, after 1800 miles the shifting is much easier, but still not what I would call great. if I drive leisurly, it shifts fine. heck, I don't even need the clutch to shift anymore if i'm driving nicely. it just falls into gear perfectly.

but power shifting for some reason, the tranny does NOT like.

hard shift effort and lots of missed gears in the 2-3 upshift.

and the other day, on a 1-2 powershift, I jammed the 1-2 fork full forward and my gearbox was stuck in 2nd gear. I could NOT shift it out no matter how hard I pulled...and I'm a big guy.

I popped off the cover, and with a screw driver, pried the 1-2 fork back into the neutral position.

I guess I can't powershift this transmission afterall, it's not fun when you lock it into 2ndgear and can't go into neutral or reverse.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 06/18/08 12:44 PM

TKO's are notoriously hard and notchy to shift until you've got it broken in. As you have seen, it has loosened up.
As far as power shifting 2nd to 3rd, the trick is re-learning how to shift a 5 speed. When power shifting a 4 speed from 2nd to 3rd, you have to push the lever up, over and up again. If you use that technique on the TKO you will have the same results everytime that you experienced. The gates on the TKO are so close together that you literally have to re-train yourself. Next time you are driving it, use the palm of your hand and simply slam the handle straight forward out of 2nd and it will automatically find 3rd on it's own. I use this method on my mustang with a TKO and the only time I miss the shift is when my hand is faster than my feet.

As for overshifting it, what color is the shift tower on yours? I understand that it is not our transmission kit but if you are using the red Tremec shift tower, I have an adjustable shift stop setup that will prevent this. Let me know if you are interested.

Richard
Tech Support

Posted By: KEISLER

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/17/08 05:36 AM

GREAT POST, RICH!
All of us should be thankful for customer service people so well healed and caring for the customer.

***Note: the next sections are my personal opinions. If you are not interested, please skip this section and start at Technical Info ***
Moparts has a lot of roughness around the edges - that is common knowledge. But we all like our Mopars, so let's get along and try to be nice to our guys. especially Rich.
I, Shafi Keisler, invented this product line when there was not a hope or prayer for Mopar 4-speed guys to get an overdrive stick worth a damn. In case you don't know, Mopar is generally looked at as the step-child of customers for the main line vendors making repro parts. Low volume, lots of variations, and not a ownerbase willing to spend loads of money on the car to warrant spending time to tool up parts we need. Even Chrysler can't spend much money on making parts for us.

It is common knowledge that Mopar customers are passionate, knowledgeable, and loyal. Bill Miller, co-founder of Carlisle Productions, said at the closing ceremony at Carlisle last weekend, that the Chryslers at Carlisle is the staffers favorite show. What a compliment!

I am passionate about Mopars. But, the pig pilers here - people that focus and feed on negative energy - really bring Moparts down. I met with Tom - the owner of Moparts - at Carlisle and we had a good discussion, for which I am hopeful things will change here - especially for the newer members. I know I wouldn't take my family to a house of garbage, and quite frankly that what posts look and smell like here at Moparts thanks to the pig pilers.

I really would like to spend time at Moparts - I gave it up several years ago, and have my staff field the questions so I can focus on continuously improving our product and not get dragged down in the BS. Normally, customers having problems work with our front line sales and customer service people first. If there is a problem still, it gets escalated to our business manager, Bruce. If he can't work it out - which is very very rare, it goes to me.

If EVER, you feel like Keisler is not listening to you, or you need another person at Keisler to cross-check, please DO NOT HESITATE to contact us. We have a TOLL FREE number now 888-609-0070 and emails and phone calls are returned within the same day, generally. If that is not enough, here is my personal number: 865-566-0314 This rings to my desk. I check my messages several times per day. We have a new sales and customer service assistant, Melissa, who handles overflow calls, takes driveshaft measurements, does invoicing, shipping tracking requests, etc. Another great person. She can be reached at x221.
*** end of personal thoughts & opinions - thanks for listening ***

Tech Info

1. SHIFT RPM ISSUES
Over the years, we have worked to refine the TKO product. In 2004, the TKO500/600 series came out. It is a much better box than the previous model. We rely on Tremec to advise us of the capabilities of the unit. We knew early on that 6500 rpm was about the limit of *reliable* shifting. That doesn't mean you can shift it past 6500, just that the shift quality will fall off past that.
Modification of the synchro can be done to improve this; simply removing every other tooth on the bronze rings has been reported to work well. At this time, we do not do this. Liberty Gear, Promotion can do mods like that. If you want that done, we will need to ship the unit to them for their work, then install our parts and test/seal the entire unit.
I don't know of any Mopar muscle car that has a redline over 6500rpm, so I feel that the TKO is a very well suited unit. As another member pointed out, we move a LOT of product (we are the largest Tremec distributor in the world!), and this is not a widespread problem. Following Rich's advice on the technique for 2/3 shifts will help a lot. Even then, you may have a ghost shift where you move the lever, but there is no 3rd gear. This is a limitation of the single cone sychronizer. Think of the synchro cone like a clutch disk that has to speed match two parts. If the friction surface area is not large enough, or grippy enough, it can't slow things down/speed things up fast enough for you.

Rattling Shifter on E-Body
This problem was caused by a metal-metal joint in the linkage which vibrated during hard acceleration. In 2006, we changed the design to a carbon nylon injection molded isolator cup bushing. After getting the isolator just right, we redesigned the rest of the linkage and shifter, along with some major mods to the oil sealing, shift rail bearings, and a few other items. The result of all of this is an e-body unit that is very taught, smooth and free of irritating vibrations under acceleration. It also incorporates Tremec's sealed red shifter which has biasing springs. This is a far better piece than other units out there, including B&M, Hurst, McLeod, Steeda, Pro5.0 and others. In fact I looked at McLeods/Hurst/B&M/Classic Chevy's shifter at Carlisle. I was amazed at how much excess play it has in the forward/aft axis. This amplifies an already irriating problem with the tremec tko which is shifter handle movement during load and unloading of the driveline (accel/decel). A certain amount of this is allowable and normal, but sometimes new units have excessive handle movement. We call the factory, and they work to get the mfg tolerance as a whole back in range for end play. This is a feature we cannot shim out of the unit.

If you hear someone telling you a Keisler shifter is anything less than excellent, please let me know! If someone is vomiting old news in efforts to get you down on us - tell them to stop wasting your time. There are people doing that here which were previously affiliated with my company. Watch out.

B-Body shifter built prior to 2005
These units utilize Tremecs cast aluminum tower. Frankly speaking, this wasn't a good shifter tower. The designers did not take into account the application, and it was an afterthought accessory. We changed the design radically in 2005, and further refined this product. In my opinion, it is leaps and bounds better than the new revised Tremec shifter, the McLeod/B&M/Hurst shifter, and the Fortes shifter. The stub is manufactured to get the most out of the Tremec 3 rail unit.

In 2007, we developed some parts to further the shift quality of the Tremec TKO. Initial testing shows favorable results. However, due to the underlying problem of the synchros, we have not furthered the product to market. Instead, we emphasize the capabilities and make customers aware of the limitations.

E-body Tunnel Fitment
The transmission can fit and work adequately in some cars, and not in others. We tell every customer now that cutting may have to occur.
Look at the top of our transmission versus the one classic chevy makes, and you will see that we have taken extra care to make the TKO the smallest packaging possible. Still it is bigger than the A833, and the compromise has to be made in order to get the drivability from the 32-36% overdrive without sacrificing to the large step changes as found in the A833 Overdrive or aftermarket versions. Anyway you go, there are compromises. We see our product as being the best bang for the buck with the least amount of compromise.

Hydraulic Actuator
From 1998 - 2003, I used a hydraulic bearing from McLeod. It came in two forms - bolt on and slip on. In all forms, I can honestly say, it is a piece of crap. We lost a lot of money, time and credibility over the McLeod hydraulic. B&M now owns McLeod, but I don't see any changes and would not expect to. That is a stone age circle track product that should not be let out of the track. We finally shelved McLeod altogether, and never looked back.

Our current hydraulic system is a proprietary OEM design, similar to what is used in Viper today. They are made to the most stringent controlled processes, have inner and outer seals, forged aluminum case, single line fill/bleed, self centering concentric bearing. The master cylinder is a high quality Wildwood which attaches to a body specific beautiful aluminum firewall mount. We moved out of the dinosaur age - Very nice pieces indeed.

You will still hear stories from older customers who lived the horror stories of the McLeod hydraulic bearing failure. It leaves a bitter taste in everyone's mouth.

If you hear stories from salespeople using any of the items above as reasons why one should NOT buy a Keisler product, please contact me by phone or email. On behalf of the company, I promise to help all of you that have any residual issues that need resolution, but I offer this with a caveaut:
Work with us by contacting us off list through the following emails: Richard (rjohnson@keislerauto.com), Gene (gcharsha@keislerauto.com), Jeff (jkauffman@keislerauto.com), Melissa (assistant@keislerauto.com), or myself Shafi Keisler (skeisler@keislerauto.com)

Also, we have a monthly newsletter that goes out around the middle of the month. This upcoming issue addresses upgrades for older model Keisler kits, as well as some beneficial tech info, and accessories worth adding to compliment your kit. When selling upgrades, we have a policy not to make more than the cost to cover the product and overhead.
Sign up for this newsletter to learn what's shakin' and check out our website often.

Thanks for listening, and I look forward to having good times on Moparts. Here is a video I posted on YouTube showing the burnout I did last Saturday at Chryslers at Carlisle.
ENJOY !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beDWQgMdyN8

Shafi

Posted By: Sixgun

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/17/08 06:04 AM

Dude...that was some seriously honest talk.
Thanks for the insight, I learned more from you in 5 mins about the TKOs than I have in the last couple years of bits and pieces.
Thanks!
Casey

Posted By: mercman1

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/17/08 10:22 PM

Quote....
" E-body Tunnel Fitment
The transmission can fit and work adequately in some cars, and not in others. We tell every customer(now) that cutting may have to occur."

I bought my set up at the 2004 Nats and stated several times to Shafi (who wrote up my order) that I was not willing to cut the trans tunnel. I was assured several times it would fit with out any tunnel mods.

I thank Richard at Keisler for all his help and dedication. He went way beyond the call of duty to help resolve the issues I had. If I was in business he would be the type of employee I would want to hire.

The T/A is now with its original 4 speed. I'm tickled pink at 7000 plus RPM powershifts. While I insist my cars look good, first and foremost is respectable 1/4 times and first class street manners.

The vibrations transfering into the car and the fact that due to not being able to shift this trans, that the T/A was a 14 or at best a high 13 second car was TOTALLY unacceptable!

I will probably put this trans in another car...when I'm over 80 years old and just want to putt around town.

As I said in my previous post...I am here to inform not bash. I have learned alot from this thread, especially all the updates that have been done to these 5 speed kits. Let us now put it to bed.

Posted By: cupcake

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/17/08 11:43 PM

7000t rpm shifts whos fault is it when u miss a shift & u drop a valve [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean].a 833 shifts like a school bus

Posted By: KEISLER

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/18/08 01:25 AM

Quote:

As I said in my previous post...I am here to inform not bash. I have learned alot from this thread, especially all the updates that have been done to these 5 speed kits. Let us now put it to bed.

Well said - let's move forward.

I would like to borrow this unit, and send it to Mexico for analysis of the shifting. PM or email me off list if you are interested.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/18/08 12:30 PM

There isn't much more that I can add to Shafi's post but would like to extend my thanks to mercman for the kind words.
As most of everyone here knows, our reputation has been questioned for years now by "the dog pilers" as Shafi put it,

. I honestly believe that if anyone who still doubts us, to please go back and look at all of my previous posts, I think you'll see that I have been working very hard to help turn that around by helping out everyone that I can.
Keisler Engineering believes that the customer is the number one priority and I live by that creed. I have given out my personal cell phone number to a number of members here so that they have soemone to talk to after hours and on the weekends. Mercman and I spent several nights and weekends trying to get his transmission kit to perform as he expected it to do, unfortunately, it just wasn't going to be. He has a beautiful car all the way around and I personally feel really bad that the overdrive just didn't perform to his expectations. From time to time, that is going to happen, it's how you, the customer, handles the situation, that reflects here on the boards. Mercman has been very gracious in his posts and updates and for that, I thank you.

As Shafi has said, I am available by e-mail at either rjohnson@keislerauto.com or at customerservice@keislerauto.com. You can call me if you prefer at the toll free number or the main line at 865-609-8187 x201 , or even PM me and I will respond. I try my best to respond the same day but on occasion, I get slammed and am not able to get to the responses until the next day. I guarantee to contact everyone that contacts me within 1 day.
If there is anything I can do to help, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Richard
Tech Support

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/18/08 01:02 PM

thats why i have a Borg-Warner T-5 transmission behind my 440.
ZERO problems to date. and thats with 400+ft-lbs of torque throughout
the RPM range. all-in-all i spent $1000 to make it work including the
price of the trans.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/18/08 03:32 PM

The Borg Warner T5 is a great transmission as well. They have a .68 5th gear which gives you a great rpm reduction equivalent to a TKO-500. I had a T5 in my '90 mustang before switching to a TKO. It stood up to my 347 stroker motor and a super charger to boot for about 6 months until I blew the crap out of it.

They are only rated at 250ft/lbs but obviously I had way more than that as you do as well.
As long as you take care of it and be careful with the 2-3 upshift when power shifting, it'll last you a good long time.

Richard
Tech Support

Posted By: LimelightCuda

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/18/08 06:06 PM

I just read this entire thread. It is of great interest to me since I very much like attending far away MoPar shows like Carlisle and the 'Nats. With gas getting more and more expensive I can see some sort of OD in my future.

It would seem from this thread and other info I have read elsewhere that Keilser is a good company with good customer support. As with all things there are pros and cons to each type of OD. I have not decided which is best for me yet but I will consider Keisler. I own a E-body and I'm not sure if I want to cut up the floor.

Perhaps the first thing I have to decide is if I want to drive my car to shows(it's a nice driver not show car) or maybe invest in a truck/trailer to go back and forth. I don't know, I kind of like the challenge and fun of driving an older car to shows. Then again the truck/trailer would seriously cut down on dirt and grime.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/18/08 06:22 PM

Quote:

I just read this entire thread. It is of great interest to me since I very much like attending far away MoPar shows like Carlisle and the 'Nats. With gas getting more and more expensive I can see some sort of OD in my future.

It would seem from this thread and other info I have read elsewhere that Keilser is a good company with good customer support. As with all things there are pros and cons to each type of OD. I have not decided which is best for me yet but I will consider Keisler. I own a E-body and I'm not sure if I want to cut up the floor.

Perhaps the first thing I have to decide is if I want to drive my car to shows(it's a nice driver not show car) or maybe invest in a truck/trailer to go back and forth. I don't know, I kind of like the challenge and fun of driving an older car to shows. Then again the truck/trailer would seriously cut down on dirt and grime.

I will offer you this to help you decide. I can send you a mock-up transmission case so you can dry fit it in tunnel and see if you will have to cut or not.

As Shafi stated, not all E-body guys have to cut. The ones that do, always have to cut in the exact same place, therefore, we provide a template and sheetmetal to show you where to cut and the metal patches in the spot you just cut.
This mock-up case is basically an empty shell of a transmission. I even put a mock-up shifter tower in the correct shifter location to aid you.
If you are interested, PM me or e-mail me or call me and I will get one sent to you.

Richard
Tech Support

Posted By: LimelightCuda

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/18/08 08:38 PM

Richard, that's a great offer. Thanks a lot. I don't plan on tackling this issue until winter time. I will keep it in mind.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/18/08 10:17 PM

blows dosn't blow.. its all good!

Posted By: Dragula

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/19/08 04:22 PM

To Keisler:

Its good to see you guys are continually addressing the issues. I applaud the effort for acknowledging that there were/are issues and the continued efforts to progress and push these transimisions to the next level. Obviously some were happy, and some were not, but its the point of finding out what the issues are when deciding whats right, and that's what this forum is about. We are not all about S%it slinging, but issues come up, and that's what I think the point of this post is. Not one trans is right for everyone, but knowing all the limitations and options, is key to making the choice. It sounds like your staffed better now, and have a better grasp of what the particular issues are and maybe your staff does to. Don't quite because you took all of our complaining personally. Make it better, and keep trudging on. People respect honest answers, and if you guys can work thru the issues, customers will be happier just for knowing the inside scoop and how to avoid the major pit falls of doing a conversion.

I am hoping one day you will get tired of fixing the flaws with the factory transmissions in trying to make them work with 100 more hp, and build/design your own that will eliminate half the hassles while keeping costs down. Nobody does a better job in redesigning something than the guy who knows what all the flaws are. If you put that knowledge to use, on a fresh new plate, you could really do something with it and there seems to be a nitch between a full race trans and the show poodle crowd.

There are two types of Mopar people: The stock or nearly stock crowd, and the guys that modify the heck out of their machines and not much in between. The problem is, the stock crowd will change subtle things like engine displacement, and carb, and still have the same old heavy stockish car, but now with 528 cubes of tire frying torque, and that's an issue! Most transissions will need some upgrading. So keep up the improvements, and I am hoping one day you build something between a Lenco and the Tremec to fill the other void. Preferably, somthing that can be shifted clutchless when stepping on it.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/20/08 06:33 PM

Quote:

Richard, that's a great offer. Thanks a lot. I don't plan on tackling this issue until winter time. I will keep it in mind.

That's okay, this winter, contact me and I'll help you out then.

When it gets to that point, Like I offered above, I will send you a mockup case and then you can see if you will be needing to cut or not.
For what it's worth, the cut and patch is not so big that you'll need to change the carpet or anything drastic like that. We simply need to raise an widen the tunnel slightly to get the front passenger side of the transmission to fit.

Let me know whn you are ready.

Richard
Tech Support
Keisler Engineering

Posted By: KEISLER

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/22/08 01:04 AM

Quote:

To Keisler:

Its good to see you guys are continually addressing the issues. I applaud the effort for acknowledging that there were/are issues and the continued efforts to progress and push these transimisions to the next level. Obviously some were happy, and some were not, but its the point of finding out what the issues are when deciding whats right, and that's what this forum is about. We are not all about S%it slinging, but issues come up, and that's what I think the point of this post is. Not one trans is right for everyone, but knowing all the limitations and options, is key to making the choice. It sounds like your staffed better now, and have a better grasp of what the particular issues are and maybe your staff does to. Don't quite because you took all of our complaining personally. Make it better, and keep trudging on. People respect honest answers, and if you guys can work thru the issues, customers will be happier just for knowing the inside scoop and how to avoid the major pit falls of doing a conversion.

I am hoping one day you will get tired of fixing the flaws with the factory transmissions in trying to make them work with 100 more hp, and build/design your own that will eliminate half the hassles while keeping costs down. Nobody does a better job in redesigning something than the guy who knows what all the flaws are. If you put that knowledge to use, on a fresh new plate, you could really do something with it and there seems to be a nitch between a full race trans and the show poodle crowd.

There are two types of Mopar people: The stock or nearly stock crowd, and the guys that modify the heck out of their machines and not much in between. The problem is, the stock crowd will change subtle things like engine displacement, and carb, and still have the same old heavy stockish car, but now with 528 cubes of tire frying torque, and that's an issue! Most transissions will need some upgrading. So keep up the improvements, and I am hoping one day you build something between a Lenco and the Tremec to fill the other void. Preferably, somthing that can be shifted clutchless when stepping on it.

Dragula,

This is one of the best Moparts posts of all time for me. Thank you for taking the time to write your constructive thoughts for all of us to see.

Posted By: mopowertim

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! - 07/22/08 07:38 AM

So- if you bought one of the early set ups, which by Keisler's admission, were junk- and had mega problems like most- is there any refund/exchange/relief from Keisler?

All I will say is- if I spend 4000 bucks for a tranny-(which I won't EVER)- it better slide in like hot butter and not give a minutes trouble- not- send it to such n such to have the teeth ground off, or try this try that. I'm not gonna spend those bucks to be a test bed or guiena pig so you can shake out your mistakes- n anyone who knows Tremecs at all knows Stangs have been trashing them for years- it's a medium duty unit at best, in any model. If I want OD- I'll go Gear vendors, or have Jamie Passon build me a OD 4 spd.- If I'm gonna have to hack cut cuss and try- I'll build my own set up from something, and do my own research. Nice try Keisler, but sometimes you just gotta admit somethings bad wrong and stop the bleeding. Quit stringing folks along over a pipe dream. Or just retreat n regroup, do some research and get it right before you put it out there. I will say the customer service and attitude seems to have improved drastically, from what I've read here, but I still think it seems a product still in research stages, not ready for public consumption.. I think until your batting at least .850 you should keep it at the shop til you do better.

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/22/08 11:22 AM

Quote:

So- if you bought one of the early set ups, which by Keisler's admission, were junk- and had mega problems like most- is there any refund/exchange/relief from Keisler?

All I will say is- if I spend 4000 bucks for a tranny-(which I won't EVER)- it better slide in like hot butter and not give a minutes trouble- not- send it to such n such to have the teeth ground off, or try this try that. I'm not gonna spend those bucks to be a test bed or guiena pig so you can shake out your mistakes- n anyone who knows Tremecs at all knows Stangs have been trashing them for years- it's a medium duty unit at best, in any model. If I want OD- I'll go Gear vendors, or have Jamie Passon build me a OD 4 spd.- If I'm gonna have to hack cut cuss and try- I'll build my own set up from something, and do my own research. Nice try Keisler, but sometimes you just gotta admit somethings bad wrong and stop the bleeding. Quit stringing folks along over a pipe dream. Or just retreat n regroup, do some research and get it right before you put it out there. I will say the customer service and attitude seems to have improved drastically, from what I've read here, but I still think it seems a product still in research stages, not ready for public consumption.. I think until your batting at least .850 you should keep it at the shop til you do better.

Ah the voice of reason....as I am one of the less than intelligent people who tried early on to use the product while it was still being engineered...e body... and it's still not engineered properly. Don't forget they tried to stick me with the product when I complained in person with documentation. To make it worse they and Mr Mopar Tech came on here and badmouthed me and my car when Mr Mopar knows better. Free transmissions sure change the way people think. Fast forward to today and the problems remain. The e body set up still has "issues" that compromise it's application regardless of whether you cut the floor up or not. I should drag out the pics of the "issues" but it's not worth it because the money wins here every time and nothing will be done to make it right. Snake oil salesmen at best. I am only speaking of E bodies here, I have no relevant data of how well the very expensive trans set up [that comes with lunatic fringe problems at no extra charge] works in an A or B body.

All supporters and employees can come on here and

to put out the latest fire but the problems still remain. My car speaks for itself as I use it as it was intended...with a Passon 4 speed. I might have a clue what i am doing

Attached picture 4567243-WatkinsGlen6-08beastcroppedlr.jpg

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/22/08 12:09 PM

thanks for the info.

Posted By: ns1aar

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/22/08 11:31 PM

I have an AAR also and had the same issues as Tom.

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 12:25 AM

Quote:

I have an AAR also and had the same issues as Tom.

Could it be the shorter wheel base compared to a Challenger? Must be something different with the small block Cuda. Would be intersting to find out why you and Tom had the same issues with poor fitment.

I would like to see Tom's pics.

Posted By: ns1aar

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 02:20 AM

I supplied Keisler with some measurments offered my car for test fits,they have a local dealer here,and have tried on several times to get answers from them.The last PM I sent went unanswered.Just for the knowledge I would like to know why the differances.The AAR shell is suppose to be the same as other cudas did Chry do something strange with them?

Posted By: mopowertim

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 02:52 AM

We had one at the shop a few years back that a customer had bought, and installed himself- this guy is an engineer at TIMCO aeroautics in Greensboro- a smart guy, heck of a fabricator, and a pretty good mechanic..( we were doing a front end rebuild, and disc brake swap that he didn't have the time to do, because he had spent so much time with the Keisler issue. The thing was barely drivable, vibrated like a cement mixer, and shifted like a dump truck. He had tried to get tech help from Keisler, had asked for a refund, etc, and got NOWHERE.. he was pretty livid. I drove the car, and felt what I described.. we didn't have anything to do with the Keisler situation, but I heard plenty about it. He ended up going auto with a gear vendors, which we did install, and NO PROBLEMS at all- works like gravy. I remember him being ready to choke Sharif Keisler or whatever his name is, because of the holier than thou attitude he was getting from him, telling hil he didn't know what he was doing, etc. I do know that there was no way to get the pinion angle right with that thing, aside from destroying the trans tunnel completely, it was nowhere near a drop in application.. this was on a 70 Road Runner, factory 4 spd car. The trans ended up in a 69 Coronet around here, he never got it to fit right either, and then 2/3 gear went out of it.. it ended up in a junk pile somewhere...

Posted By: cupcake

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 04:39 AM

WOW that did,nt take long they just got done smoothing things over.if you have to shift at 10,000 rpm stick with a auto

Posted By: VanishPt

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 11:35 AM

I like mine. I had a Gearvendors before I put the TKO in.

Posted By: rj8806

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 12:32 PM

Quote:

WOW that did,nt take long they just got done smoothing things over.if you have to shift at 10,000 rpm stick with a auto

No kidding..

As stated there will always be exceptions to the rule. For the AAR guys, we still have not determined why the fittment issues are more prevalent on them as compared to non AAR cars, it just doesn't make any sense.

As for the post up above this one about the issues with the '70 RR, that is just baffling. The owner has a '70 RR that we used to develop the 5 speed kit off of and it fits as advertised. It now has our automatic overdrive in it but I know for a fact that the 5 speed fits as promised. On the b-body cars, we do have to move the shifter over to the center of the tunnel as there is no way to clear the torsion bar crossmember and put the shifter in the factory 4 speed location. If the car is a factory 4 speed, relocating the shifter over to the centerline is the only modification needed to fit the TKO in there.

The main point of Shafi coming on here and posting in this thread was to point out that we did have issues in the past but we all have worked very hard to rectify them. They are considered just that, issues of the past.
We continue to grow every day and learn from the mistakes of the past. As someone on here already stated, they could see an improvement in the customer service and attitudes of Keisler Engineering as compared to the past and that's what we strive for everyday. To continue to grow and get better and serve the customer is our number one goal.

Richard
Tech Support
Keisler Engineering

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 07/23/08 01:49 PM

Quote:

I supplied Keisler with some measurments offered my car for test fits,they have a local dealer here,and have tried on several times to get answers from them.The last PM I sent went unanswered.Just for the knowledge I would like to know why the differances.The AAR shell is suppose to be the same as other cudas did Chry do something strange with them?

I remember reading a post here that someone mentioned that some Cuda's had Challenger floors in them. It was post about subframe connectors or TTI headers.

Posted By: sycboi

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you - 08/15/08 06:59 PM

Quote:

has anyone here had experience with the pro 5.0 shifter and will the Pistol grip bolt on to it ?

is it worth the 200$

thanks.

I put a ('03-'04 Cobra application) Pro 5.0 shifter mechanism in my 1970 Dart with a Viper T-56 6-speed transmission. My Pistol Grip handle bolted right to it with no modifications. Worth the money all day long...

-Michael

70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!