505" B1 build with turbo. Need ideas/sanity check.
#693646
05/10/10 01:32 AM
05/10/10 01:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494 IL
EchoSixMike
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mopar
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Posts: 494
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Well at least making sure my insanity works well enough. Is intended to be a fun car, but will see strip time, probably some road course time as well.
What I have: -the chassis 68 Charger 12 pt cage SFI'd for 8.50 coil over, rack and pinion front end ladder bar rear 9" Strange Ford with 4.30 gearset 6spd T56 with 0.50 top overdrive McCleod 1200hp "street" dual disk clutch
-the engine 505" Megablock w/B1 originals GRP aluminum rods unknown pistons, probably whatever brand Koffel uses cast B1 intake
-the tentative plan
The engine will be going to a local machine shop, which has done good work for me in the past. They do a lot of large inch brand X stuff, as well as some turbo Cosworth stuff for the open wheel guys. I have a good comfort level with the shop.
My chassis guy does excellent fab work on turbo stuff and has me sold on the benefits of an EFI turbo car over a large cam NA car for street use. What I plan on doing is pulling the aluminum rods and pistons out of the motor and replacing with steel rods, brand undetermined, probably Eagle or Crower. Looking at getting compression around 9.5 or 10:1, which seems to be about as good as it gets with 65cc combustion chambers in a 4.375 bore. I'm looking very hard at Big Stuff EFI; comments, experience? Also turbo and cam recommendations? I'm not set on any given power level, although on E85, intercooled, I'm expecting well north of 1000HP. Given this amount of power, my most pressing concern is not destroying anything expensive due to failure to plan.
Fire away. S/F.....Ken M
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Re: 505" B1 build with turbo. Need ideas/sanity check.
[Re: joshking440]
#693650
05/10/10 02:37 PM
05/10/10 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494 IL
EchoSixMike
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Thanks Josh.
This car is going to see significant street time, which is why I'm trying to get away from the Al rods. I've seen all sorts of info, going both ways, regarding street use, I'd prefer to spend the money once and do it right the 1st time.
Do you recall the dish specs for your pistons? That looks very similar to where I plan on going.
I notice from your dyno sheets that the torque really starts coming in about 5000rpm, is that correct? Do you have your turbo specs for A/R, trim, etc?
The 4.30 gearset was from the original build plan; I'm probably going to go to something in the 3.55-3.73 range, but my concern is the transmission durability. I want the tires to be the weak link in the driveline.
The EFI is planned for low speed drivability/idle quality. I plan on running spray bar oiling of the lifters, if not pushrod oiling, so low rpm lifter durability should be a non-issue, I hope. S/F.....Ken M
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Re: 505" B1 build with turbo. Need ideas/sanity check.
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#693651
05/10/10 03:15 PM
05/10/10 03:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590 Indy
joshking440
Lunch is on me!
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Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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I understand your apprehensive about the aluminum rods on the street, but my car is in the same catagory as yours, it will see 85% street time, and if you miss a tune it sure is nice to have a buffer...
My turbo is a pt106 with a 1.5 a/r
I would talk to Scott about the oiling, but fyi remember to get a grove cut in the #4 bearing journal of the cam.
As far as the dyno numbers, my lack of e-85 knowledge put me back a bit. The motor was actually pretty lean at the time we made the pulls, but the plugs really read ok. We didnt start the dyno pull until 4300, so I think thats why the motor appears to really starts to come in. We were making 450 hp and 600 ft lbs at 3800 just kinda warming it up.
The cam is a 715 lift and .248 at .050 with a 114 lsa
The piston is a diamond, feel free to call them on specs its part number 56525 We got the compression down to about 9.4 or so.
The carb for me was a money thing, I couldnt afford the difference, and I wasnt willing to bite of anymore that I couldnt already chew as far as a learning curve! But that carb sat and idled at 800 rpms straight out of the box with not a problem, and other than being a bit lean up top the thing was amazing, so with that said, if you look to tighten the budget, C&S build the most amazing e85 low thru carb on the planet, and it will support 2000hp if needed
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Re: 505" B1 build with turbo. Need ideas/sanity check.
[Re: BombSquad]
#693654
05/13/10 10:56 PM
05/13/10 10:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 66 SRQ, FL
8valves
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Posts: 66
SRQ, FL
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What do you estimate the weight of the car will be when done? I would go for a gear in the 3.00-3.2X range if you stick to your gameplan for powerplant. The torque will pull the gear, even with the 6 speed. No worries there. The length of the gear will help the car have a bit more managable of a powerband. Still not easy, but manageable. If you plan on doing ANY roadcourse work (REAL roadcourse action, not drive around the course point it straight and shoot) then realistically the oversized turbo plan is the one for you. An electronic boost controller will do no good, as boost will only go as low as your wastegate springs allow generally. If you run anything more than a 4-5 psi gate spring, which you likely will, then the setup will build more torque at low rpm then you will plant regardless if there is any steering angle applied. That's where the larger, laggier turbo setup can be your friend. It may just be late enough that you can learn to drive with it as you come out of the corners, much like the old school turbo Porsche guys do. Otherwise, some EMS systems such as AEM or Motec (I'm sure others, just haven't dealt with them as much) will have a VSS dependent boost function. The low end torque will still be there, but that would allow you to pour the power on the straight hard as the speeds increase. Why E85? Just for fun, or is it readily accessible for you and cheap? There's nothing wrong with it in the least, it's great. Just make sure whomever is behind the keyboard has a good understanding of it, and knows how to calibrate your WB02 sensor for it, or adjust accordingly. Ask Josh about that.
Aaron M
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Re: 505" B1 build with turbo. Need ideas/sanity check.
[Re: 8valves]
#693655
05/14/10 04:54 AM
05/14/10 04:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494 IL
EchoSixMike
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Posts: 494
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I'm trying to get it under 3400 lbs, if possible. E85 is available at several local stations. It was $2.63/gal last time I drove past. Bombsquad, the car will have a panhard bar for the rear suspension. I'm beginning to think I may have to make it into a wing car S/F.....Ken M
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Re: 505" B1 build with turbo. Need ideas/sanity check.
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#693656
05/14/10 08:44 AM
05/14/10 08:44 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,238 North Cackilacky
sdaurity
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,238
North Cackilacky
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The new XFI has a function for boost by MPH and you can set your curve to whatever you want and I have done this on lots of street cars and it works great. and you can set the traction control very aggressive for tire spin. Just a thought.
One day I will have something cool here.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: joshking440]
#693664
06/07/10 11:59 PM
06/07/10 11:59 PM
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